Crumbling Infrastructure Is Hurting America’s Competitive Edge

[beijingwalker]

whats confusing - pipeline infrastrusture - number of miles of pipes in usa vs china. Quality of designs and consistency in layout apprval in rural or beyond the major cities in china. you got shops but do you get cusines too like in usa?? - what if you are sick of eating chinese food everyday.

You really don't know China, we have all kinds of food from different regions and countries, please check foreign expats videos about how much they love the food in China, what don't eat what you find in Chinese restaurants in US.

whats confusing - pipeline infrastrusture - number of miles of pipes in usa vs china. Quality of designs and consistency in layout apprval in rural or beyond the major cities in china.

I still don't know what exactly you are talking about, if you live off the grid of course you don't get all modcon in either China or US.

 

[FuturePAF]

San Francisco is exceptionally bad as the worst city in US and probably North America if you are specifically talking about homeless problem. SF deteriorated a lot in last few years.

Pretty much every other US city is better than San Francisco

I can’t agree with you more. what has happened to San Francisco is just heart breaking. It’s politics would have you believe it was the most enlightened place in the US, but the ground reality is totally the opposite.

Many people in San Francisco in particular and California in general want contradictory things on many issues. Whether it is homeless services (many if not most are either mentally ill or drug addicts) without restricting anyone personal freedoms, or it is proper forest management to prevent forest fires over maintaining the forest no matter what, California is stuck in paralysis, unable to effectively govern itself. Political leaders fear if they actually enforce the laws, they will be labeled as elitist or bigoted in one way or another.

Nimbyism is one of the biggest problems in California, because local residents dont trust laws will be enforced and therefore fight tooth and nail against homeless shelters.

 

[letsrock]

You really don't know China, we have all kinds of food from different regions and countries, please check foreign expats videos about how much they love the food in China, what don't eat what you find in Chinese restaurants in US.


I still don't know what exactly you are talking about, if you live off the grid of course you don't get all modcon in either China or US.

I dont know whether you are really confused or pretending to be. American has cuisine of the entire world literally at its door step at moderate costs across vast parts of its country . Does china have? instead of answering you keep repeating china has lot of stuff in its retail stores - i am not denying it. I am asking about international cusines.

Second one is piped delivery of heating or gas to houses. IN american you dont have to burn coal or oil to heat houses (though it still happens in significant houses but not majority) because you get piped delivery. I dont think this yet happens in china. They still have room air conditoning and for heating they burn coals or oils apart from major metros maybe.

I can’t agree with you more. what has happened to San Francisco is just heart breaking. It’s politics would have you believe it was the most enlightened place in the US, but the ground reality is totally the opposite.

Many people in San Francisco in particular and California in general want contradictory things on many issues. Whether it is homeless services (many if not most are either mentally ill or drug addicts) without restricting anyone personal freedoms, or it is proper forest management to prevent forest fires over maintaining the forest no matter what, California is stuck in paralysis, unable to effectively govern itself. Political leaders fear if they actually enforce the laws, they will be labeled as elitist or bigoted in one way or another.

Nimbyism is one of the biggest problems in California, because local residents do trust laws will be enforced and therefore fight tooth and nail against homeless shelters.

Its just a few blocks there. California is still the worlds most desirable places to live. Look at its real estate market.

 

[beijingwalker]

I dont know whether you are really confused or pretending to be. American has cuisine of the entire world literally at its door step at moderate costs across vast parts of its country . Does china have? instead of answering you keep repeating china has lot of stuff in its retail stores - i am not denying it. I am asking about international cusines.

Do check foreign expats vlogs about eating and food in China, or visit China, you'll be amazed.

Second one is piped delivery of heating or gas to houses. IN american you dont have to burn coal or oil to heat houses (though it still happens in significant houses but not majority) because you get piped delivery. I dont think this yet happens in china. They still have room air conditoning and for heating they burn coals or oils apart from major metros maybe.

In the cities all get what pipeline delivered ,in the country I m not sure, but in the country they develop even faster than urban regions in China, so it's hard to get updated figure.
But infrastructure is more than that, China is unrivaled in public infrastucture building and expanding, that's why many call China the builder of the world.

 

[FuturePAF]

I dont know whether you are really confused or pretending to be. American has cuisine of the entire world literally at its door step at moderate costs across vast parts of its country . Does china have? instead of answering you keep repeating china has lot of stuff in its retail stores - i am not denying it. I am asking about international cusines.

Second one is piped delivery of heating or gas to houses. IN american you dont have to burn coal or oil to heat houses (though it still happens in significant houses but not majority) because you get piped delivery. I dont think this yet happens in china. They still have room air conditoning and for heating they burn coals or oils apart from major metros maybe.



Its just a few blocks there. California is still the worlds most desirable places to live. Look at its real estate market.

I been going to San Francisco since 1996 periodically every few years and its not just the tenderloin. Yes you won’t find tent cities everywhere, but they are spreading. It’s also not unique to San Francisco, we have a lot of homeless here in New York, but at least 95% of New York cities homeless are provided shelter if they agree to take it. Homeless people go in and out of hospitals for mental heath services in New York, so that they can stay in their communities while still being treated.

In many ways San Francisco is a great city, but it lacks the backbone to enforce the laws, and allocate enough of their budget for mental health and drug addiction services.

If the state priorities policies that allowed more mass transit to the Central Valley and more apartment building in between, people could afford to live in California. With the higher population, the state could lower some taxes and make life more affordable for the average person. the state needs to find ways to keep people from dropping out of the middle class and prioritizing social housing over the objections of neighbors. (I says this as someone that lives a few blocks from a homeless shelter and I have never had a problem with the men living there)

 

[letsrock]

Do check foreign expats vlogs about eating and food in China, or visit China, you'll be amazed.


In the cities all get what pipeline delivered ,in the country I m not sure, but in the country they develop even faster than urban regions in China, so it's hard to get updated figure.
But infrastructure is more than that, China is unrivaled in public infrastucture building and expanding, that's why many call China the builder of the world.

Ofcourse china has well developed rail, urban rail and city infrastructure. America opeates differently - people here live in the suburbs - cities not so much - only the young or ultra rich or ultra poor live in cities. If you want to judge america you should look at its suburbs- green landscaped areas with huge mansion like houses and all the infra you need. America defnitely lacks public transportation but thats an unfortunate decision they made due to auto industry and also racism.

 

[Aspen]

I been going to San Francisco since 1996 periodically every few years and its not just the tenderloin. Yes you won’t find tent cities everywhere, but they are spreading. It’s also not unique to San Francisco, we have a lot of homeless here in New York, but at least 95% of New York cities homeless are provided shelter if they agree to take it. Homeless people go in and out of hospitals for mental heath services in New York, so that they can stay in their communities while still being treated.

In many ways San Francisco is a great city, but it lacks the backbone to enforce the laws, and allocate enough of their budget for mental health and drug addiction services.

If the state priorities policies that allowed more mass transit to the Central Valley and more apartment building in between, people could afford to live in California. With the higher population, the state could lower some taxes and make life more affordable for the average person.

California, specifically SF liberals are extremely liberal to the extent that they are afraid to punish crime. Chesa Boudin and Prop 47 have ruined the city by reducing criminal penalties and increasing leniency for felonies with rehabilitation and reduced or no jail time. In some cases, criminals have even been given free alcohol and drugs. Criminals have taken advantage of Prop 47 to stop being afraid of getting caught by police since punishments are now more lenient and as a result crime has spiked in SF.

Police in radically liberal cities like SF are afraid to arrest criminals for major crimes, even murders are basically ignored because liberals have too much sympathy for criminals which are typically low income and black. Republicans are tougher on crime.

New York is an example of liberalism done correctly, they have progressive policies but not to the radical extent that they allow crime becomes a problem like in San Francisco.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

New York's elevated subway tracks have so much rust they look like they're going to break any minute.

America's glory days are definitely a thing of the past.

We (Boston) removed all of our elevated subways and pushed them underground.

https://www.massmoments.org/moment-details/last-elevated-train-runs-in-boston.html
Last Elevated Train Runs in Boston

On this day in 2004, Boston's last elevated train pulled into North Station. For over a century, Bostonians had avoided the congested streets below by riding trains carried on huge steel tracks overhead. When the El was built in 1901, people were thrilled to pay the five-cent fare to travel in mahogany-paneled cars from one shiny station to another. But over time city officials and most residents came to see the once-elegant El as a noisy eyesore. Gradually elevated lines were replaced with subways, and the tracks were demolished. The final run of the Green Line trolley on the last half-mile of elevated track marked a milestone in the modernization of the nation's oldest subway system, and, at the same time, the end of an era.

Just like you see in the movies of NYC's famous elevated tracks...so too did Boston.


We also moved the ugly elevated highways underground and replaced them with parks..

wild rabbits running around

Not far from that park they tore down an ugly garage and made a multi-story underground one and then put a park with a cafe over it.

 

[beijingwalker]

View attachment 631249
View attachment 631250
Just like you see in the movies of NYC's famous elevated tracks...so too did Boston.

I thought it was India at first glance..

 

[Taimoor Khan]

From 12:50

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

I thought it was India at first glance..

There's ugly elevated tracks in Korea and Japan too. You guys were still probably in the rickshaw days when they were installed.

 

[letsrock]

We removed all of our elevated subways and pushed them underground.

https://www.massmoments.org/moment-details/last-elevated-train-runs-in-boston.html
Last Elevated Train Runs in Boston

On this day in 2004, Boston's last elevated train pulled into North Station. For over a century, Bostonians had avoided the congested streets below by riding trains carried on huge steel tracks overhead. When the El was built in 1901, people were thrilled to pay the five-cent fare to travel in mahogany-paneled cars from one shiny station to another. But over time city officials and most residents came to see the once-elegant El as a noisy eyesore. Gradually elevated lines were replaced with subways, and the tracks were demolished. The final run of the Green Line trolley on the last half-mile of elevated track marked a milestone in the modernization of the nation's oldest subway system, and, at the same time, the end of an era.

View attachment 631249

View attachment 631250
Just like you see in the movies of NYC's famous elevated tracks...so too did Boston.


We also moved the ugly elevated highways underground and replaced them with parks..
View attachment 631251
View attachment 631252
View attachment 631285
wild rabbits running around

Not far from that park they tore down an ugly garage and made a multi-story underground one and then put a park with a cafe over it.

View attachment 631288
View attachment 631295

You are referring to boston dig. Thats the probably the last massive infra america took up. When you say infra people exclusively focus on public transportation where america lacks. But thats not the only thing. America's focus was on roads through 30s to 80s and they built a massive freeway system supported by state highways . while new highways are rarely built the existng highways are maintained - you can hardly drive 300 miles without some road blockages due to maintainence.

But in america the population is so wealthy that they can afford transportation on a private level. Most of the suburbia roads are build by suburban private builders - they are very nice. Most of the humongus parking lots required for these cars are built by private retailers. You can often see big box stores like walmart surrounded by huge parking lots. Even a mcdonald or tacobell will have humongous parking space in suburbs - all built privately. Cars are bought privately by people themselves. And america has by far the most competitive market in autos.

There are other aspects to infrastructure like power, gas for example and even landscaping. American has nuclear power close to 100,000 MW while china has something like 40-50,000 MW. America has excellent gas infrastructure too.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

You are referring to boston dig. Thats the probably the last massive infra america took up. When you say infra people exclusively focus on public transportation where america lacks. But thats not the only thing. America's focus was on roads through 30s to 80s and they built a massive freeway system supported by state highways . while new highways are rarely built the existng highways are maintained - you can hardly drive 300 miles without some road blockages due to maintainence.

Actually the elevated subway tear down was not part of the dig you are thinking about which was mainly the elevated highway teardown, new Zakim bridge, and the new underwater Ted William's tunnel to the airport.

Much of the cost had to do with the new underground highway being dug through land only 200 meters from the waterfront that was reclaimed from the ocean 200 years ago. It was wet, unstable, and a mishmash of junk.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

But in america the population is so wealthy that they can afford transportation on a private level. Most of the suburbia roads are build by suburban private builders - they are very nice. Most of the humongus parking lots required for these cars are built by private retailers. You can often see big box stores like walmart surrounded by huge parking lots. Even a mcdonald or tacobell will have humongous parking space in suburbs - all built privately. Cars are bought privately by people themselves. And america has by far the most competitive market in autos.

Correct. Many of the infrastructure problems lie in old urban areas. When US household wealth grew to a point where people could move out of multi-family housing units in the city and into the "single family home in the suburbs with a white picket fence 2.5 kids and a dog" all new infrastructure was built.


Plus many people (like the Chinese) can't even grasp how long we have had basic amenities.
We had lighting inside houses long before electricity was even invented by using natural gas. We had extensive nationwide gas lines to houses before even the first electrical wire was hung!

We have gas mains from the 1800's crisscrossing the country.

 

[beijingwalker]

There's ugly elevated tracks in Korea and Japan too. You guys were still probably in the rickshaw days when they were installed.

That is true, but it doesn't change the facts today. The world has changed dramatically since.

But in america the population is so wealthy that they can afford transportation on a private level.

Same with most countries.