Creating an EA-16 B/D

[Mentee]

They did but why weren't any SD.10s fired even though they had viable locks on aircraft,please sit with someone whose actively flying vipers or have flown vipers and they'd tell you about the importance of having such a machine.
Both aircraft have their own niche.

Its Simple coz thunders were pounding ground targets with munitions which the handicappers don't have the capability to deliver hence, the chowkidaari . Or the thunder program was a complete waste to stroke paf's ego?

 

[Trailer23]

@Signalian - A Topic worthy of a

I was reading up on the EA-18 Growler having seen it up close during the an Air Show a few months back.

As I was reading up on the Growler I was curious about a few things you mentioned...

1. There isn't any mention of the ALQ-227 on the Wiki page of the EA-18 (Growler).
There is however, a mention of AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR

2. The AN/ALQ-99 has been around since Vietnam, with now a slightly upgraded version where, the AN/ALQ-99 has a maximum power output of 10.8 kW in its older versions and of 6.8 kW in its newer versions. That being said,

Q. Is there a reason why the USN hasn't looked into replacing it?

----------------------------------------------​

The AN/ALQ-218 is designed by Northrop Grumman.
The AN/ALQ-99 was designed by EDO Corporation, now ITT Corporation.

Q. Does Turkey (Aselsan/TAI) have something similar/cheaper if the US Congress were to approve such a modification on our existing F-16's?

----------------------------------------------
​

Q. Why is that the Lockheed Martin never a pitched the idea of a Growler-type variant to the USAF?

A few pics of the EA-18 (Growler) from the DxB Air Show '19​

 

[Adam_Khan]

Its Simple coz thunders were pounding ground targets with munitions which the handicappers don't have the capability to deliver hence, the chowkidaari . Or the thunder program was a complete waste to stroke paf's ego?

Where have I said the whole program is a waste of money and time,didn't I say earlier that both aircraft have got their own place in the airforce. You can't simply base your own airforce around one light fighter, there is and always would be a need for a medium weight fighter.
Mark my words,given a chance the airforce won't hesitate from buying more vipers. The live affair isn't yet over and you can confirm that from anyone whose flown them.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Where have I said the whole program is a waste of money and time,didn't I say earlier that both aircraft have got their own place in the airforce. You can't simply base your own airforce around one light fighter, there is and always would be a need for a medium weight fighter.
Mark my words,given a chance the airforce won't hesitate from buying more vipers. The live affair isn't yet over and you can confirm that from anyone whose flown them.

It all comes down to cost/performance ratio. A thunder equipped with AESA and a PL-15 will always be preferred over Blk-52s. However if Bllk-72 is offered things can change. For PAF F-16s have no ground attack capability and its only for air superiority. PAF should go for F-16s if they are covered by CSF or are bought second handed and dirt cheap.

 

[Adam_Khan]

It all comes down to cost/performance ratio. A thunder equipped with AESA and a PL-15 will always be preferred over Blk-52s. However if Bllk-72 is offered things can change. For PAF F-16s have no ground attack capability and its only for air superiority. PAF should go for F-16s if they are covered by CSF or are bought second handed and dirt cheap.

They do carry JDAM's, LGBs, old version of Mavericks and on top of that carry the important Db.110 reconnaissance pods. Yes there are restrictions on carrying long range stand off munitions but that part is adequately covered by mirages and thunders.

If there was no need for medium weight fighters then why did the airforce evaluate the J.10s in the first place,many might not know but during one of the Shaheen exercises held in Paf Rafiqui even F.7PGs were having no difficulty in shooting them down. You can double check this with anyone in the airforce.

Cheers

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

if Bllk-72 is offered things can change

With AIM 120D

 

[Mentee]

They do carry JDAM's, LGBs, old version of Mavericks and on top of that carry the important Db.110 reconnaissance pods. Yes there are restrictions on carrying long range stand off munitions but that part is adequately covered by mirages and thunders.

If there was no need for medium weight fighters then why did the airforce evaluate the J.10s in the first place,many might not know but during one of the Shaheen exercises held in Paf Rafiqui even F.7PGs were having no difficulty in shooting them down. You can double check this with anyone in the airforce.

Cheers

On a tech scale of 1-10 the goodies which u.s sold us sit between somewhere 3-4 while weve already excelled that tech restriction in the shape of joint ventures like thunder, Chinese and local equipment. I don't mind getting an odd squadron of block70 just to have a "sneak peak" inside america's best when we can but right now our priority ought to be substantially increase the number of 4.5th Gen aircrafts and not experimenting with swag - - - - - - - -


F16 however is not just a war machine but a tool to influence Pakistan's decisions in a war against India. That's why we don't see them enough in numbers and also with strings attached . The reason behind such policy is to provide India a safe exit in case paf did manage to turn any idian adventure into a strategic victory for Pakistan by rendering all those handicapped 16's in operational right in the middle of the war - - - - - - - - - - to force Pakistan to quit and adjust to the US geopolitical needs .


This could also be interpreted as a reason to keep paf away from beefing up the Thunder numbers by giving them false hopes every two years - - - - - - - - -.

 

[Adam_Khan]

With AIM 120D

On a tech scale of 1-10 the goodies which u.s sold us sit between somewhere 3-4 while weve already excelled that tech restriction in the shape of joint ventures like thunder, Chinese and local equipment. I don't mind getting an odd squadron of block70 just to have a "sneak peak" inside america's best when we can but right now our priority ought to be substantially increase the number of 4.5th Gen aircrafts and not experimenting with swag - - - - - - - -


F16 however is not just a war machine but a tool to influence Pakistan's decisions in a war against India. That's why we don't see them enough in numbers and also with strings attached . The reason behind such policy is to provide India a safe exit in case paf did manage to turn any idian adventure into a strategic victory for Pakistan by rendering all those handicapped 16's in operational right in the middle of the war - - - - - - - - - - to force Pakistan to quit and adjust to the US geopolitical needs .


This could also be interpreted as a reason to keep paf away from beefing up the Thunder numbers by giving them false hopes every two years - - - - - - - - -.

As I said earlier there would be a need for medium weight fighters and F.16's fill out that niche very well, JF.17 is a very important platform in itself but comparing it's importance to an F.16 is like comparing apples to oranges. Sadly the way the airforce thinks is much different and if given the chance it will scour the world for used F.16s just like it did for mirages.

 

[Blacklight]

Do you have a source for your claim. Presently there is not a single version of the F.16 that could be utilized as an electronic warfare platform. The American Block 50 F.16CJ's carry HARMs in conjunction with HTS pods and that's about it.

Study the IAF's presseers post Feb 2019. How was spoofing carried out? This is all I can say on an open forum.

It's highly likely that sooner or later the airforce will find a way to get used vipers from somewhere and to be honest that makes sense as well as the capability boost the vipers provide is worth the search.

When a new platform is inducted, ground crews need to be trained, pilots take years to master tactics, it is not as simple as plug and play. Even when a new Blk is received, it takes time, albeit less.

With an existing platform, newer used units do not take that much time, hence an increase in capability in a very short span of time, comparatively speaking.

 

[Adam_Khan]

Study the IAF's presseers post Feb 2019. How was spoofing carried out? This is all I can say on an open forum.


When a new platform is inducted, ground crews need to be trained, pilots take years to master tactics, it is not as simple as plug and play. Even when a new Blk is received, it takes time, albeit less.

With an existing platform, newer used units do not take that much time, hence an increase in capability in a very short span of time, comparatively speaking.

That's part of the reason why they'd want more vipers even if they come with strings attached as the know how and capability to absorb more is there.

 

[Goenitz]

@Signalian
if we take Lenordo or US pods, can Isreal help India to jam it? Isreal is believed to jam syrian radars of russian origin, especially during operation orchard (2007). now isreal may not have that much spy network in Russia. So it was assumed that US gave them the russian radar 'working codes' (so not real time jamming !!?). SO if we buy western equipment, can Isreal help India to compromise those pods, and to breach Link-16?

 

[Signalian]

@Signalian
if we take Lenordo or US pods, can Isreal help India to jam it? Isreal is believed to jam syrian radars of russian origin, especially during operation orchard (2007). now isreal may not have that much spy network in Russia. So it was assumed that US gave them the russian radar 'working codes' (so not real time jamming !!?). SO if we buy western equipment, can Isreal help India to compromise those pods, and to breach Link-16?

Each country optimises its LINK-16 based on the testing of their navigation aids (NAVAIDS) and Link-16, so frequency clearance agreement (FAC) can differ from United States Possessions (US&P) certifications. There are also three types of MSG (message services) which are customised by the country which uses Link-16. These are country specific:
1. J28.x
2. J29.x
3. J30.x
The purpose/usage of above three messages is defined by the user country. These messages are processed by mission computer. Here 'J' means Link-16. Then 28,29,30 are message labels. 'x' can be 0,1,2,3 etc and is the the sub-label which is defined for the purpose based on the user country's requirement. As an example J3.7 is EW product information derived from EM sources but remains common for all countries. Apart from that it comes down to two more things, signal processing (e.g. LPI through FH) and cyber security (encryption techniques) of Link-16. Rafale and Mirage-2000 already have Link-16 capability. Turkey and Greece both use F-16s and while Greece also operates Mirage-2000s. I haven't come across any issue of Link-16 breach through jamming or otherwise between Turkey and Greece. If the case is such that PAF detects Link-16 getting hacked or breached and finds out that Israel is helping India for this purpose, then PAF will not only hand over proofs to US, but this will bring a bad reputation for US systems worldwide. Jamming itself is based on many factors, there could be ways to jam an E/O pod, but they have their own limitations however the adversary must have correct set of jamming equipment since these are passive in nature like IRST.

 

[truthfollower]

Each country optimises its LINK-16 based on the testing of their navigation aids (NAVAIDS) and Link-16, so frequency clearance agreement (FAC) can differ from United States Possessions (US&P) certifications. There are also three types of MSG (message services) which are customised by the country which uses Link-16

link 16 and pakistani link 17 are two way links?

 

[Signalian]

link 16 and pakistani link 17 are two way links?

yes

 

[Falcon26]

TERMA AND LEONARDO LAUNCH F-16 ELECTRONIC COMBAT INTEGRATED PYLONS SYSTEM
2018-07-16:
The new ECIPS/CJS product will be on show for the first time on both companies’ stands at Farnborough Airshow during 16-20 July.

Farnborough, UK- Terma has partnered with electronic warfare experts Leonardo to offer a variant of its Electronic Combat Integrated Pylons System (ECIPS) with an integrated Leonardo Compact Jamming System (CJS). The new ECIPS/CJS product will be on show for the first time on both companies’ stands [Terma at Hall 2, stand 2440 and Leonardo at L1] at Farnborough Airshow, which runs during 16-20 July.

Uniquely, the new system gives an upgrade path to F-16 users who want to equip their platforms with a persistent, high-powered, modern defensive jamming capability without losing a weapons station: the ECIPS/CJS retains a full weapons carriage capability. The system provides effective protection from radar-guided threats by emitting powerful Radio Frequency (RF) signals to confuse enemy radar systems and prevent radar lock on to the host F-16.

The ECIPS/CJS, which employs Leonardo’s advanced Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM) capability, can protect an F-16 against even the most modern radar-guided threats. Additionally, because of the Company’s approach to providing ‘open’ and user-programmable electronic warfare (EW) systems, the jammer can be kept up to date with a nation’s own EW threat library, maintaining sovereign capability.

Terma will offer the ECIPS/CJS as an ‘off-the-shelf’ product, having worked closely with Leonardo to fully integrate the CJS. Because the new system sits within the current envelope of the certified and operational Terma ECIPS+, on a typical F-16 Mid Life Update (MLU) jet there are no additional aircraft modifications required, making ECIPS/CJS simpler and less expensive to install when compared to an onboard jamming solution or towed radar decoy. Because the new product is designed and manufactured by Terma and Leonardo in Europe, it is also readily exportable around the world.

Benefits include:

• ECIPS/CJS provides a modern self-protection jammer solution for the F-16 within the current envelope of the certified and operational Terma F-16 ECIPS+.
• The CJS is a Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM) combined with a techniques generator, receive antennas, transmitters, and power hardware in a compact form factor.
• The ECIPS/CJS pylon is based on a certified and operational solution for Jammer installation while still retaining the Missile Warning System configuration.
• The aircraft control is via the current Terma ALQ-213 EW Management System, including the Advanced Threat Display and may also include Terma’s Aircraft Audio Management System with 3D-Audio and Active Noise Reduction capabilities.
• The ECIPS/CJS is complementary and fully compatible with Leonardo’s BriteCloud 218 expendable active decoy, to provide a further level of protection for F-16 jets.
• The ECIPS/CJS can be installed on wing stations 3 or 7.
• The ECIPS/CJS is designed to operate together with Terma’s PIDS+ countermeasures dispenser pylon on opposite wing stations 3 or 7.
• SW changes are limited to implementation of a CJS driver in the ALQ-213.
• No aircraft OFP changes required.
• ECIPS/CJS envelope and weight is similar to current ECIPS configuration.

About Leonardo
Leonardo is among the top ten global players in Aerospace, Defence and Security and Italy’s main industrial company. Organized into seven business divisions (Helicopters; Aircraft; Aero-structures; Airborne & Space Systems; Land & Naval Defence Electronics; Defence Systems; Security & Information Systems), Leonardo operates in the most competitive international markets by leveraging its areas of technology and product leadership. Listed on the Milan Stock Exchange (LDO), in 2017, Leonardo recorded consolidated restated revenues of 11.7 billion EUR and has a significant industrial presence in Italy, the UK, the U.S., and Poland.

https://www.terma.com/press/news-20...6-electronic-combat-integrated-pylons-system/

Shouldn’t PAF be able to acquire this for the JF-17? @Bilal Khan (Quwa)