Create their own version - China's new generation stealth fighter-bomber: t

[Akasa]

sac had completely lose the national open competition of 5 gen air superiority fighter against cac in about three years ago.sac jxx is just a low-cost 5 gen multi-role (mainly A to G or A to sea role) fighter .this is what huzigeng said

One of their designs were eliminated, but they didn't lose anything. They are still developing a 5th generation fighter and multiple stealthy other fighters as well. The J-19 will not be a low cost variant. It, in my opinion, will probably be a higher end fighter jet that emphasizes air superiority. Think of it as the F-22 of the PLAAF.

 

[houshanghai]

One of their designs were eliminated, but they didn't lose anything. They are still developing a 5th generation fighter and multiple stealthy other fighters as well. The J-19 will not be a low cost variant. It, in my opinion, will probably be a higher end fighter jet that emphasizes air superiority. Think of it as the F-22 of the PLAAF.

I hear that sac have a super unmanned fighter in cdf .the plan have begun to be put into operation now.Perhaps it is j19 you said

 

[lawxx]

One of their designs were eliminated, but they didn't lose anything. They are still developing a 5th generation fighter and multiple stealthy other fighters as well. The J-19 will not be a low cost variant. It, in my opinion, will probably be a higher end fighter jet that emphasizes air superiority. Think of it as the F-22 of the PLAAF.

J-20 is the air superiority fighter, is used against the F-22, J-XX is a multi-purpose fighter, the price is lower than the J-20. Similar to the U.S. F-35

---------- Post added at 06:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:47 AM ----------

I hear that sac have a super unmanned fighter in cdf .the plan have begun to be put into operation now.Perhaps it is j19 you said

No J-19, serial no customization, only the J-XX

 

[Dragon Emperor]

Wow all of this stealth fighter projects must cost a lot. I wonder how much China's defence budget really is. With all that aircraft in development, China's defence budget must be above 200billion USD.

 

[S10]

Wrong. It is the air superiority 5th generation stealth fighter for the PLAAF. Its air to air capabilities and stealth capabilities will be on par if not superior to that of the J-20.

The PLAAF will have a combination of air superiority fighters and strike fighters. The J-19 will be an air superiority fighter.

No, hu already said that's not the case.

 

[Akasa]

No, hu already said that's not the case.

Then what is the case?

I'm assuming that this guy has insider connections to both CAC and SAC?

 

[Akasa]

I hear that sac have a super unmanned fighter in cdf .the plan have begun to be put into operation now.Perhaps it is j19 you said

There are two heavy UCAV programs in Shenyang: the Combat Eagle and the Dark Sword.

The Combat Eagle is supposed to be revealed this year.

The J-19 is different.

 

[Akasa]

J-20 is the air superiority fighter, is used against the F-22, J-XX is a multi-purpose fighter, the price is lower than the J-20. Similar to the U.S. F-35

The J-20, with its current configuration and size, is definitely not an air superiority fighter. It does not emphasize on agility and it certainly would have a higher RCS than similar fighters with conventional configurations.

The J-19, on the other hand, supposedly has a smaller airframe, conventional stealth shaping, and a F-22 like configuration.

All that point to J-20 being the strike fighter and J-19 being the air superiority fighter.
The F-35 role is fulfilled by the J-2X, which is another single engine J-20 variant under development.

 

[S10]

Then what is the case?

I'm assuming that this guy has insider connections to both CAC and SAC?

SAC's design proposal for J-XX program was originally a tri-plane setup, including both tailplanes and canards. However, it was very complicated in terms of flight control software design, and still inferior in performance (RCS, supercruise and manoevurability) compared to CAC's J-20 design.

"huzhigeng ：【至于沈阳的那个落选的三翼面雪HU，个子太大，全机重量也大，又长又细，飞控极度复杂，超巡还比不上成都的，隐身性能也比不上成都的（双三角翼对影身还是有些影响的）。机动性双方各有千秋，成都的瞬盘和稳盘相当出色，能量机动更强，所以还加了个大边条，配合YA子，在加莱特和DSI两者选择方面，成都的可调DSI，比不可调的加莱特进气道更先进（601的专家现在也在611所）】"

After losing to CAC, they got another project under their belt which is to design a near 4th Gen (准&#22235. The requirement was multi-role as opposed to J-20's air superiority. It would be cheaper to produce than J-20 with a conventional layout (CARET inlet), even slightly bigger than Su-27. So no, it is actually bigger than J-20. In short, a larger aircraft that is cheaper to produce than J-20, with greater multi-role capability but inferior in A2A aspect.

Those are Huzhigeng's words. The plane might just be J-16 according to him.

"到时候你看看是不是。。。时间能证明一切。急什么。。。。我到要看看歼8X2是不是他们说的国产板的苏30MKK。。？你还当601所和沈飞是FC。。。。。。601脑子有病也不会去搞一个三十年前的东西。。你当11BS是干什么的？？11BS可比苏30MKK强多了。"

Anything else is pure speculation. Straight from his mouth:

http://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1167788&page=2&authorid=146084

I especially pay attention to this quote:

这机机是中国空军以后战略空军平台的一个组成部份。。还包括718工程（611所）。。远轰工程。（HXX）。（603所）大型战略运输机。。。

 

[casual]

Wow all of this stealth fighter projects must cost a lot. I wonder how much China's defence budget really is. With all that aircraft in development, China's defence budget must be above 200billion USD.

well if you want to play catch up you gotta pour money into it.

 

[Akasa]

SAC's design proposal for J-XX program was originally a tri-plane setup, including both tailplanes and canards. However, it was very complicated in terms of flight control software design, and still inferior in performance (RCS, supercruise and manoevurability) compared to CAC's J-20 design.

"huzhigeng ：【至于沈阳的那个落选的三翼面雪HU，个子太大，全机重量也大，又长又细，飞控极度复杂，超巡还比不上成都的，隐身性能也比不上成都的（双三角翼对影身还是有些影响的）。机动性双方各有千秋，成都的瞬盘和稳盘相当出色，能量机动更强，所以还加了个大边条，配合YA子，在加莱特和DSI两者选择方面，成都的可调DSI，比不可调的加莱特进气道更先进（601的专家现在也在611所）】"

After losing to CAC, they got another project under their belt which is to design a near 4th Gen (准&#22235. The requirement was multi-role as opposed to J-20's air superiority. It would be cheaper to produce than J-20 with a conventional layout (CARET inlet), even slightly bigger than Su-27. So no, it is actually bigger than J-20. In short, a larger aircraft that is cheaper to produce than J-20, with greater multi-role capability but inferior in A2A aspect.

Those are Huzhigeng's words. The plane might just be J-16 according to him.

"到时候你看看是不是。。。时间能证明一切。急什么。。。。我到要看看歼8X2是不是他们说的国产板的苏30MKK。。？你还当601所和沈飞是FC。。。。。。601脑子有病也不会去搞一个三十年前的东西。。你当11BS是干什么的？？11BS可比苏30MKK强多了。"

Anything else is pure speculation. Straight from his mouth:

Ñ°ÕÒ601ËÄ´úµÄÔ´Á÷¡ª¡ª´Óºú×Ó¸ùµÄ±¬ÁÏ˵Æ𣨺ú×ÓÔٴγöÏÖ,ӦȺÖÚÒªÇóÈ¡ÏûÔĶÁȨÏÞ£© - µÚ2Ò³ - ¿Õ¾ü°æ - ³¬¼¶´ó±¾Óª¾üÊÂÂÛ̳

I especially pay attention to this quote:

Wasn't it one of your sources that said that the J-16 is a 4.5th generation strike fighter while the 5th generation fighter was a different project? Please don't tell me that SAC is building another J-8 variant. From what other analysts have said, the J-16 is based off the J-11B or possibly the Su-27SK.

I find it very interesting that the J-20 has been selected for the air to air role. That would probably explain its canards. That directly contradicts its configuration, size, and design.

 

[S10]

Wasn't it one of your sources that said that the J-16 is a 4.5th generation strike fighter while the 5th generation fighter was a different project? Please don't tell me that SAC is building another J-8 variant. From what other analysts have said, the J-16 is based off the J-11B or possibly the Su-27SK.

I find it very interesting that the J-20 has been selected for the air to air role. That would probably explain its canards. That directly contradicts its configuration, size, and design.

I think it was lizyu who said J-16 would fill a role similar to F-15E, and it would be based on the Flanker line. However, huzhigeng is contradicting him by saying J-16 would not be some Su-30 offshoot . There's some major confusion going on. The only thing that can be confirmed is SAC is developing a new plane with conventional layout, CARET inlet with multirole focus. It would not be quite as capable as J-20 in A2A role. It's not known what the designation will be, but it might be J-16.

"pupu: 苏-30MKK2跟歼-16相比的差距可就大了去了，几乎差了将近半代有余……"

J-20 is designed to be long and slender to reduce drag for supercruise. Larger body allows it to carry more fuel and supercruise for longer, not to mention increased combat radius. PLAAF predicted that future air combat will depend more on supersonic maneovures instead of subsonic manoevures. The design obviously is geared towards such.

 

[casual]

I think it was lizyu who said J-16 would fill a role similar to F-15E, and it would be based on the Flanker line. However, huzhigeng is contradicting him by saying J-16 would not be some Su-30 offshoot . There's some major confusion going on. The only thing that can be confirmed is SAC is developing a new plane with conventional layout, CARET inlet with multirole focus. It would not be quite as capable as J-20 in A2A role. It's not known what the designation will be, but it might be J-16.

"pupu: 苏-30MKK2跟歼-16相比的差距可就大了去了，几乎差了将近半代有余……"

J-20 is designed to be long and slender to reduce drag for supercruise. Larger body allows it to carry more fuel and supercruise for longer, not to mention increased combat radius. PLAAF predicted that future air combat will depend more on supersonic maneovures instead of subsonic manoevures. The design obviously is geared towards such.

ya A2A combat is now basically lock on, shoot your BVRAAMS, then turn around and leave.

 

[houshanghai]

According to another boss "speed'(the mod of 9ifly)
the real 5 gen sac jxx will make its first-flight in the year after next(2012).
also we won't see sac jxx(4.75 gen) first flight in the end of this year.it will make its first flight by spring or summer next year.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Let me summarize:

Huzigeng is saying that the stealth fighter bomber will be designated the J-16. He also says that the J-11BS is China's equivalent of the Su-30MKK.

Pupu thinks that the J-11BS is a trainer and the J-16 is China's indigenous Su-30MKK. He said that the J-16 is half a generation ahead of the Su-30, implying electronically scanned radar/rcs reduction measures. According to him the stealth fighter bomber will be designated J-2x since the J-1x fighter designations will be reserved for fourth gen/4++ fighters.