CPEC vis-a-vis Pakistan and India

[gslv mk3]

You are not sleeping, you are pretending to be asleep
CPEC is already benefiting Pakistan industry.

Can we have some data regarding its influence on Pakistani industry?

This is from last year http://www.dawn.com/news/1217735

This is the latest news

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1175987...hinese-lack-interest-joint-ventures-pakistan/

Whatever investment that you have cannot eclipse the impact of CPEC, because the effects are much greater

What is this even supposed to mean ?

Gawadar is not going to destroy Dubai, it will diminish it.
.

Before thinking about destroying Dubai or something, have a look at where you stand. Dubai is the ninth busiest container port, handling 14.7 million TEUs. The closest Pakistani competitor is Karachi, handling 1.6 million TEU at 86th position.

What's more interesting is that Dubai has 106 berths. Do you think you can challenge it with the 3 berths you plan to construct?

I think us Indians are far more modest, as we don't brag about our upcoming large ports @Rajaraja Chola

When the reality dawned upon you guys, you guys went from above BS to "CPEC is nothing" and at the same time "China is taking over Pakistan".

To be fair, Indians seems to have a better idea about what's going to happen. China is going to build a logistics corridor. And are going to milk you for everything including the power they generate. Classic colony- making.

Yes CPEC is a game changer, it is going to serve as a trading hub for all of Central Asia, western China and middle east.
It is going to connect all of them and will diminish Dubai's importance. Pakistan is going to earn transit fees for all transactions and on top of that, a lot of investment is going to be poured in

All of these are basically pipe dreams. China's major production & consumption centers are located some 5,000 km away from the end node of CPEC. There is no logic in the assumption that China would route their trade over an unstable 2 lane mountain road.

I don't get the argument that Middle east will use Gwadar as a trading hub. Good luck negotiating transit through Afghanistan.

It is going to solve our energy problems because we are getting power plants alongside roads and railways.

And it is going to put Pakistan in a very prestigious position in South Asia.
How is that going to affect India.?
Badly.

What does solving of Pakistan's infrastructure woes has to do with it being in a prestigious position? The fact is that India is at a much better situation today as it commissions 34 GW of installed capacity every year & do it without any foreign funding.

 

[khanmubashir]

First, your constitution says that GB is not part of Pakistan. Then how come you are building CPEC through GB? You cry so much about UN resolutions. This is a clear violation of those resolutions.

There is nothing for China to tolerate or not tolerate. India did warned China that CPEC passing through GB is illegal. In spite China proceeded, so any consequences have to be borne by China too.

ok we go permission from GB legislative assembly happy

Can we have some data regarding its influence on Pakistani industry?



What is this even supposed to mean ?



Before thinking about destroying Dubai or something, have a look at where you stand. Dubai is the ninth busiest container port, handling 14.7 million TEUs. The closest Pakistani competitor is Karachi, handling 1.6 million TEU at 86th position.

What's more interesting is that Dubai has 106 berths. Do you think you can challenge it with the 3 berths you plan to construct?

I think us Indians are far more modest, as we don't brag about our upcoming large ports @Rajaraja Chola



To be fair, Indians seems to have a better idea about what's going to happen. China is going to build a logistics corridor. And are going to milk you for everything including the power they generate. Classic colony- making.



All of these are basically pipe dreams. China's major production & consumption centers are located some 5,000 km away from the end node of CPEC. There is no logic in the assumption that China would route their trade over an unstable 2 lane mountain road.

I don't get the argument that Middle east will use Gwadar as a trading hub. Good luck negotiating transit through Afghanistan.



What does solving of Pakistan's infrastructure woes has to do with it being in a prestigious position? The fact is that India is at a much better situation today as it commissions 34 GW of installed capacity every year & do it without any foreign funding.

As I said some Indian claiming of 15% but its ridiculous Google it. It is on average interest rate of 1.6%

and once commerce commence Pakistan will b charging transit fee I have visited road areas people r charging 100000 -200000 4 a tiny house 2 Chinese so large chunk of road building money will come in 2 pak economy and we r even pushing them 2 reduce It 2 only 1%

China has indicated that it will charge 1.6 percent interest on loans for establishing infrastructure projects under the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC). However, Pakistan would like the interest rate to be lowered to one percent, says a news item published in this newspaper. Pakistan, it appears, is basing its view on interest rate it particularly pays to a Bretton Woods institution, the World Bank, for similar project financing. http://www.brecorder.com/editorials/0:/1225344:cpec-china-must-reduce-interest-rate/

Approximately $11 billion worth of infrastructure projects being developed by the Pakistani government will be financed by concessionary loans, with composite interest rates of 1.6%,[198] after Pakistan successfully lobbied the Chinese government to reduce interest rates from an initial 3%.[199] The loans are subsidised by the government of China, and are to be dispersed by the Exim Bank of China and theChina Development Bank. For comparison, loans for previous Pakistani infrastructure projects financed by the World Bank carried an interest rate between 5% and 8.5%,[200] while interest rates on market loans approach 12%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China–Pakistan_Economic_Corridor#Project_financing

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/129000-The-CPEC Approximately $11 billion worth of infrastructure projects being developed by the Pakistani government will be financed by concessionary loans, with interest rates of 1.6%,[92] after Pakistan successfully lobbied the Chinese government to reduce interest rates from an initial 3%.[93] The loans are subsidized by the government of China, and are to be dispersed by the Exim Bank of China and the China Development Bank. http://www.apnironaq.com/371428-cpec-loan-investment-view-discuss.html
I don't get the argument that Middle east will use Gwadar as a trading hub. Good luck negotiating transit through Afghanistan.??? LOL
do u even know geography no need of Afghanistan goods from ME can simpl ship 2 gwadar or karachi and onward on cpec
Source: https://defence.pk/threads/cpec-vis-a-vis-pakistan-and-india.444896/#ixzz4JN7eFH4q

 

[gslv mk3]

Even Russia, which is relying heavily on China in forming a strong eastern block to counter NATO and which has recently openly expressed its willingness to improve diplomatic and military relations with Pakistan, will not stand any such move by India towards Pakistan.

Sure, Russia would forgo it's greater strategic relations with India in favour of Pakistan. Isn't there a limit to your delusions? Last time I checked, we are the only country that received a nuclear attack submarine on lease from they.

India has no other option BUT to resolve its differences with Pakistan and reach an amicable solution to the Kashmir and Water issues.

however, there can most certainly be a ghazwa-e-hind, if India doesn't behave like a good boy.

Sure, two major economies of Asia are going to fight another for the sake of Pakistan. You're beyond delusional.

do u even know geography no need of Afghanistan goods from ME can simpl ship 2 gwadar or karachi and onward on cpec

To where ?

Approximately $11 billion worth of infrastructure projects being developed by the Pakistani government will be financed by concessionary loans, with composite interest rates of 1.6%

And what about the Power Generation projects?

 

[khanmubashir]

Sure, Russia would forgo it's greater strategic relations with India in favour of Pakistan. Isn't there a limit to your delusions? Last time I checked, we are the only country that received a nuclear attack submarine on lease from they.






Sure, two major economies of Asia are going to fight another for the sake of Pakistan. You're beyond delusional.



To where ?



And what about the Power Generation projects?

china if u r talking about central asia western china has already land route there through kazakistan krghiztan tajaikistan close 2 cpec installions so if afg doesnt compl which the will as it will b lucrative 4 them 2 ME goods will go 2 china and then 2 CA it is best if the dont use iran 4 transit google earth

 

[gslv mk3]

china

Still far away

western china has already land route there through kazakistan krghiztan tajaikistan

Hmm, thanks for the info.

 

[hassan zohaib]

With CPEC, Chinese Strategic Goals are defined in a manner that it is in China's primary interest to ensure that Pakistan remains on a steady economic growth path free from any law & order and internal chaotic situation. Any disturbances within Pakistan will directly effect China's plans of having short, direct and economical access to arabian sea as well as having it's naval presence there.

Any misadventure by India, in the above situation, will not be tolerated by China. Even Russia, which is relying heavily on China in forming a strong eastern block to counter NATO and which has recently openly expressed its willingness to improve diplomatic and military relations with Pakistan, will not stand any such move by India towards Pakistan. India has no other option BUT to resolve its differences with Pakistan and reach an amicable solution to the Kashmir and Water issues. The alternative will be very detrimental to India as China will not tolerate anything which comes in the way of it's CPEC plans.

So, in the fast changing scenario, India has to play ball and either join the group that is forming Russia-China-India-Pakistan-Iran-Turkey, or be at the receiving end by the remaining members of the group. India has to make this choice. There's no akhand bharat happening in the above scenario, however, there can most certainly be a ghazwa-e-hind, if India doesn't behave like a good boy.

first of all you missed America from your calculation.
second you talked about what china and Russia would do you forget to understand what India and america can do and what they are doing.
3rd you left this that what present situation is unfolding in this region.
last but not the least who said to you russia can exclude India from its alliance as you mentioned. India is more important to russia than pakistan because India is needed to keep china check always if china starts creeping its head like it did in 60`s.
hope you would take into consideration this in your calculation.

 

[hussain0216]

Can we have some data regarding its influence on Pakistani industry?



What is this even supposed to mean ?



Before thinking about destroying Dubai or something, have a look at where you stand. Dubai is the ninth busiest container port, handling 14.7 million TEUs. The closest Pakistani competitor is Karachi, handling 1.6 million TEU at 86th position.

What's more interesting is that Dubai has 106 berths. Do you think you can challenge it with the 3 berths you plan to construct?

I think us Indians are far more modest, as we don't brag about our upcoming large ports @Rajaraja Chola



To be fair, Indians seems to have a better idea about what's going to happen. China is going to build a logistics corridor. And are going to milk you for everything including the power they generate. Classic colony- making.



All of these are basically pipe dreams. China's major production & consumption centers are located some 5,000 km away from the end node of CPEC. There is no logic in the assumption that China would route their trade over an unstable 2 lane mountain road.

I don't get the argument that Middle east will use Gwadar as a trading hub. Good luck negotiating transit through Afghanistan.



What does solving of Pakistan's infrastructure woes has to do with it being in a prestigious position? The fact is that India is at a much better situation today as it commissions 34 GW of installed capacity every year & do it without any foreign funding.

CPEC is to aid development of not only Pakistan but the whole of Western China

China has a problem it us a nation of two halves with the Eastern side the hub of its manufacturing and population, it wants to shift both population and industry to its western half to develop that also,

It has a problem however, the western half is in competition with is eastern half, why would manufacturers go to western China with less developed states, less people and expertise, higher transport costs and facilities etc etc

CPEC will aid in this respect a direct route to middle east, Africa etc, two way traffic to obtain and receive resources, oil and send out manufactured goods, also a alternative to eastern china and any blockade imposed on Easter China or south China seas

This could ho on and on

Pakistan is set to become a hub with massive infrastructure projects and big investment as CPEC routes will require everything and Pakistan will have a superb system of transport to utilise and a true deep water port and if plans stay on track things like appropriate storage etc

CPEC isnt a stand alone one off fix for Pakistan its part of a process where this massive 200 million market will start to move and expand

 

[gslv mk3]

Pakistan is set to become a hub with massive infrastructure projects and big investment as CPEC routes will require everything and Pakistan will have a superb system of transport to utilise and a true deep water port and if plans stay on track things like appropriate storage etc

Please do inform us when that happens. You know where you stand in the competitiveness index.

I don't think the Chinese would route their trade over a 2 lane highway going over the Himalayas. I will believe it when I see it.

 

[hussain0216]

Please do inform us when that happens. You know where you stand in the competitiveness index.

I don't think the Chinese would route their trade over a 2 lane highway going over the Himalayas. I will believe it when I see it.

Western China has some overland routes too but it needs a major sea port

Put it like this
If you are a manufacturer in Western China and you want to transport something to Africa how do you do it?
Well first you have to go in the wrong direction EAST then load onto ships and use the existing chinese ship lanes and transport systems through some of the most busy shipping lanes of the world

All thst additional transport costs, manufacturing costs make western China pointless to invest in, why would chinese population and companies move west and how would china develop its western half

Easy it has a direct route south, from whuch to get oil, gas, other resources
And for western China to have a deep sea port where it can send out manufactured goods this tge additional costs of transporting east to the chinese coast dissappear and they could even cut the cost and time and beat eastern China

CPEC will succeed for this reason alone

Development of all western China has a interest in making CPEC mega

Pakistan, GCC or any other trade is just a cherry ontop

China will develop its western half because it has no other option and it needs CPEC to do it

Indian's need to understand the above and then they will get CPEC and why it will succeed, in their brains they are only thinking about Pakistan and like a mental patient babbling

 

[Pakistan First]

Why is our eastern neighbour so worried and obsessed about CPEC?

Among several things, one thing which is not being openly discussed, due to obvious reasons, but is clearly on the radar of our eastern neighbours and some other hostile countries, is the fact that there are 21 Mineral Zones which will also be on CPEC route, and if was to talk about Baluchistan alone, then such mineral zones in Baluchistan would include Khuzdar (chromite, antimony), Chaghi (chromite), Qila Saifullah (antimony, chromite), Saindak (gold, silver), Reko Diq (gold), Kalat (iron ore) Lasbela (manganese), Gwadar (oil refinery), Muslim Bagh (chromite). Now anyone who knows a little about how to use Google, can find out that Reko Diq alone has the potential of wiping out whole of Pakistan's external debt. In KPK, such zones would include Hattar, Gadoon, Ghazi, D I Khan, Jalozai, Nowshera, Bannu, Chitral and Risalpur. The proposed Minerals Economic Processing Zones in KP included Dargai (chromite), North Waziristan (chromite), Kurram (antimony), Waziristan, (copper), Chitral (antimony), Besham (iron ore, lead), Nizampur (iron ore) and Mohmand (marble).

The Industrial Parks other than these Mineral Zones above, also present a long list, but I will not indulge in that at this point of time.

The actual economic potential of CPEC and it's associated ventures is tremendous and cannot be calculated. What is extremely important is that we, Pakistan, continue diligently to ensure swift completion of the PLAN.

CPEC is just the beginning, just the name of a corridor. What WILL gradually result due to this corridor, is something which stands to change the future of Pakistan.

 

[Brickwall]

Western China has some overland routes too but it needs a major sea port

Put it like this
If you are a manufacturer in Western China and you want to transport something to Africa how do you do it?
Well first you have to go in the wrong direction EAST then load onto ships and use the existing chinese ship lanes and transport systems through some of the most busy shipping lanes of the world

All thst additional transport costs, manufacturing costs make western China pointless to invest in, why would chinese population and companies move west and how would china develop its western half

Easy it has a direct route south, from whuch to get oil, gas, other resources
And for western China to have a deep sea port where it can send out manufactured goods this tge additional costs of transporting east to the chinese coast dissappear and they could even cut the cost and time and beat eastern China

CPEC will succeed for this reason alone

Development of all western China has a interest in making CPEC mega

Pakistan, GCC or any other trade is just a cherry ontop

China will develop its western half because it has no other option and it needs CPEC to do it

Indian's need to understand the above and then they will get CPEC and why it will succeed, in their brains they are only thinking about Pakistan and like a mental patient babbling

Hope the CPEC turns exactly as many Pakistan wishing

But China is not only relying on CPEC for development of their western side, but also on other projects like BCIM corridor.

Question is China has some level of alternative to CPEC, does Pakistan is also preparing for worst case scenario.?

 

[hussain0216]

Hope the CPEC turns exactly as many Pakistan wishing

But China is not only relying on CPEC for development of their western side, but also on other projects like BCIM corridor.

Question is China has some level of alternative to CPEC, does Pakistan is also preparing for worst case scenario.?

Yes of course

We are a 200 million market that is essentially underdeveloped and in need of everything

The reason why we aren't a major world economy is due to corruption, poor economic policies made worse by security problems

As we try to get a handle on these things by virtue of size, underdevelopment Pakistan will become one of the fastest growing economies of the world

Investors and companies will fall over themselves to try and get a piece not because they like us because of simple benefits

The question isnt if, its when

How quickly can we sort out the corruption and mess out

 

[Nalini]

“ In spite China proceeded, so any consequences have to be borne by China too.”
Is India ready to start a war against China?

Whether India will start a war with China or not only time will tell. Yes India is getting ready to defend it's borders. Safeguarding measures & preparation for war is in the process.

In my hindsight, it does look America has every possibility to increase tensions & start a war.

Bingo. That's what my first post pointed to. The alignment of strategic interests of both countries.

The question is, will India put everything at stake (94% of Hindu population of the world !) just because Modi can't keep his dick in his dhoti?

India is not fools like you people who threaten we are a nuclear power, beware & we are not at the mercy of anybody. That's reason Modi is strengthening its relation with everybody. We are respecting every country's interests & concern, be it big or small. That's reason we are in the process of arming some of the smaller allies.

When fools want to wag or park their asses in others territory without permission, you will definitely find Modi's dick there to ram your un invited arse & explode it & your uncontrollable tadap will permanently be terminated

Why is our eastern neighbour so worried and obsessed about CPEC?

CPEC is just the beginning, just the name of a corridor. What WILL gradually result due to this corridor, is something which stands to change the future of Pakistan.

We are not obsessed with CPEC. Why should we be bothered, just move your activities out of our territory GB. I dont understand how many threads keep opening on CPEC. As though your life & death is on this one CPEC. Every other day somebody opens a new thread on CPEC. Itt shows your obsession & also exposes you have become so dependent on others money you are as good as a slave & you can't do anything concrete on your own,

 

[Srinivas]

With CPEC, Chinese Strategic Goals are defined in a manner that it is in China's primary interest to ensure that Pakistan remains on a steady economic growth path free from any law & order and internal chaotic situation. Any disturbances within Pakistan will directly effect China's plans of having short, direct and economical access to arabian sea as well as having it's naval presence there.

Any misadventure by India, in the above situation, will not be tolerated by China. Even Russia, which is relying heavily on China in forming a strong eastern block to counter NATO and which has recently openly expressed its willingness to improve diplomatic and military relations with Pakistan, will not stand any such move by India towards Pakistan. India has no other option BUT to resolve its differences with Pakistan and reach an amicable solution to the Kashmir and Water issues. The alternative will be very detrimental to India as China will not tolerate anything which comes in the way of it's CPEC plans.

So, in the fast changing scenario, India has to play ball and either join the group that is forming Russia-China-India-Pakistan-Iran-Turkey, or be at the receiving end by the remaining members of the group. India has to make this choice. There's no akhand bharat happening in the above scenario, however, there can most certainly be a ghazwa-e-hind, if India doesn't behave like a good boy.

India is behaving like a good boy, reason why it tolerated Pakistani rants and terror all these decades.

 

[LadyFinger]

You sure?!!

:-DDDDD

India is behaving like a good boy, reason why it tolerated Pakistani rants and terror all these decades.