Could the AWACS works as ground based radar on some conditions?

[Hamartia Antidote]

fuk off dik head

Don't worry genius the US isn't the ONLY country on this planet who has this plan.
China's Drone Swarms Rise to Challenge US Power - Yahoo News

 

[janon]

Does it means that when required USAF's weaker assets like F-16s when they face adversaries like Su-30MKIs they can use AWACS not just to find them but to engage them with AMRAAMS?

If you are thinking of an India-pakistan scenario(I can't think of any other place where such a confrontation would occur), it doesn't work out that simple. The IAF has very innovative tactics as well, where aircrafts fire their missiles under the guidance of another aircraft's radar, in the manner that @Peter C mentioned in post number 10.

The MKIs would almost always be used in hunter-shooter pairs with smaller fighters. The immensely powerful radar of the MKI would feed information to smaller aircrafts like bisons and mirages currently, or LCAs and Rafales in future, and those smaller aircrafts would be flying far ahead in radar silent mode. Then those aircrafts will shoot missiles that are guided by the MKIs which stay behind, out of engagement range. That is why the MKIs are all considered by the IAF as mini-AEWACs.

Of course, not to mention the fact that the IAF will also have proper AEWAC coverage.

But yes, as a general answer to your question, AEWACs can guide missiles from fighters onto enemy fighters. In the PAF fleet, I think the Eyerie AEWACs can do that for F-16s, and the chinese AEWACs can do that for JF-17. The other fighters rely on some kind of complicated GCI.

As for the IAF, they plan to have every single fighter data linked and networked, able to share info with any other. As of now, the bisons, MKIs, mirages and mig-29s are all networked. In future, with the induction of LCA and Rafale, and the phasing out of older jets, the IAF as such will be a fully network centric force, with data transmitted not only between airborne assets, but also with ground radars, aerostats and the ground based air defence network.

 

[Basel]

If you are thinking of an India-pakistan scenario(I can't think of any other place where such a confrontation would occur), it doesn't work out that simple. The IAF has very innovative tactics as well, where aircrafts fire their missiles under the guidance of another aircraft's radar, in the manner that @Peter C mentioned in post number 10.
The MKIs would almost always be used in hunter-shooter pairs with smaller fighters. The immensely powerful radar of the MKI would feed information to smaller aircrafts like bisons and mirages currently, or LCAs and Rafales in future, and those smaller aircrafts would be flying far ahead in radar silent mode. Then those aircrafts will shoot missiles that are guided by the MKIs which stay behind, out of engagement range. That is why the MKIs are all considered by the IAF as mini-AEWACs.
Of course, not to mention the fact that the IAF will also have proper AEWAC coverage.
But yes, as a general answer to your question, AEWACs can guide missiles from fighters onto enemy fighters. In the PAF fleet, I think the Eyerie AEWACs can do that for F-16s, and the chinese AEWACs can do that for JF-17. The other fighters rely on some kind of complicated GCI.
As for the IAF, they plan to have every single fighter data linked and networked, able to share info with any other. As of now, the bisons, MKIs, mirages and mig-29s are all networked. In future, with the induction of LCA and Rafale, and the phasing out of older jets, the IAF as such will be a fully network centric force, with data transmitted not only between airborne assets, but also with ground radars, aerostats and the ground based air defence network.

Your whole post is use less because I was not referring to any India Pakistan scenario, I only refer to MKI because it is potent platform. I had asked about capacity of USAF whom against IAF is kid in terms of tech.

 

[janon]

Your whole post is use less because I was not referring to any India Pakistan scenario, I only refer to MKI because it is potent platform. I had asked about capacity of USAF whom against IAF is kid in terms of tech.

Damn. I was only adding to the discussion and trying to bring out interesting details, I know you did not specifically ask about indo-pak scenario. This is the air warfare section, and my post is of interest to aerial warfare in general. I am sorry if you found it useless - but then this is the internet after all, and you will occasionally come across useless stuff. And I am not interested in a dick measuring contest about who is a kid and who is not.

The title of the thread is a lot more 'useless' than my post.

 

[Basel]

Damn. I was only adding to the discussion and trying to bring out interesting details, I know you did not specifically ask about indo-pak scenario. And I am not interested in a dick measuring contest about who is a kid and who is not.

Sorry for spoiling, but this type of tech will not reach South Asia soon, data, information sharing and missile guidance by other fighters will be first step anyone go in South Asia.

 

[janon]

Sorry for spoiling, but this type of tech will not reach South Asia soon, data, information sharing and missile guidance by other fighters will be first step anyone go in South Asia.

It is already present in south asia. The IAF, PLAAF and to a certain extent even the PAF have network centric capabilities. It is not that cutting edge.

 

[Basel]

It is already present in south asia. The IAF, PLAAF and to a certain extent even the PAF have network centric capabilities. It is not that cutting edge.

Yes they have but all assets / fighter planes of all mentioned air forces still cant go net centric it will take time, and missile guided by AWACS they are far away from this tech now, US may have it as they have tech available to them.

 

[janon]

Yes they have but all assets / fighter planes of all mentioned air forces still cant go net centric it will take time, and missile guided by AWACS they are far away from this tech now, US may have it as they have tech available to them.

The MKI has the ability to share target co-ordinates with four other aircrafts simultaneously through an encrypted datalink. It had this ability since it was inducted, so it is unlikely that India's AEWACs dont have that ability.

Sukhoi Su-30 MKI

The radar can also serve as a command post for other aircraft, with target coordinates being automatically transferred to at least four other aircraft using a secure data link.

 

[Basel]

The MKI has the ability to share target co-ordinates with four other aircrafts simultaneously through an encrypted datalink. It had this ability since it was inducted, so it is unlikely that India's AEWACs dont have that ability.

That's what I have said in my previous post that fighters can share data with each other and even use each other assets during air war now in South Asia, but whole air force of any country in South Asia don't posses it only portion has that capacity and all regional air forces are working to implement it to whole air force level.

Just Imagine if AWACS can be used to track and engage targets and UAVs armed with BVR missiles remain in air with them what kind of next gen net centric warfare it will create, it will reduce human casualties and increase fighting potential and work as force multiplier who posses it and US is moving fast in this direction.

 

[janon]

That's what I have said in my previous post that fighters can share data with each other and even use each other assets during air war now in South Asia, but whole air force of any country in South Asia don't posses it only portion has that capacity and all regional air forces are working to implement it to whole air force level.

Just Imagine if AWACS can be used to track and engage targets and UAVs armed with BVR missiles remain in air with them what kind of next gen net centric warfare it will create, it will reduce human casualties and increase fighting potential and work as force multiplier who posses it and US is moving fast in this direction.

Well, that's what I said as well, that the IAF is looking to move towards complete net centricity. I even mentioned the aircrafts in the IAF which presently have NCW capabilities. So I know that entire air forces in south asia do not have that capability, only a small part of each AF does. I explained that in detail in the post you said was 'useless'.

 

[Basel]

Well, that's what I said as well, that the IAF is looking to move towards complete net centricity. I even mentioned the aircrafts in the IAF which presently have NCW capabilities. So I know that entire air forces in south asia do not have that capability, only a small part of each AF does. I explained that in detail in the post you said was 'useless'.

What I m interested is was in second part of the my post. If PAF can get this tech which will allow AWACS to launch BVR missiles against enemy air crafts with many medium size UAVs carrying at least 2 BVR missiles on them with at least flying time of 6-8 hours, then even IAF in future will think many times to enter in our air space until they have stealth planes in numbers even that could be encountered by round the clock surveillance by Chinese spy sats of those air bases where IAF may base stealth planes.

 

[janon]

What I m interested is was in second part of the my post. If PAF can get this tech which will allow AWACS to launch BVR missiles against enemy air crafts with many medium size UAVs carrying at least 2 BVR missiles on them with at least flying time of 6-8 hours, then even IAF in future will think many times to enter in our air space until they have stealth planes in numbers even that could be encountered by round the clock surveillance by Chinese spy sats of those air bases where IAF may base stealth planes.

Well, it works both ways. I'm sure the IAF will also have a fleet of UAVs to do air policing and combat patrols, so that manned fighters can take on more strategic roles. Besides, airstrikes may themselves be carried out by UAVs in future, like the USAF does today with the predators. I can't really predict the future, but usually every innovation has a counter innovation by the other side.

 

[Sliver]

AWACS is expensive to use. Think of it as a mobile "generator" which takes a lot of coal/diesel to produce power.

It is to built to be used in places where setting up a permanent radar is not possible - like theater of war, protecting assets in hostile territory etc.

AWACS can be used on ground but if you are going to use AWACS inside your own territory, it makes sense to use road based (mobile radar stations) and permanent (listening posts) radars as they are designed to take care of the horizon clearance (trees, mountains other land features).

So in places where you know you need constant electricity, you supply from the grid. In places and situations where that is not possible, you get the portable generator. but remember - these portable generators are usually very limited and you will have to judge the best place to position them so as to minimize your damage and maximize the enemy's damage.

 

[Basel]

I'm sure this was kept in mind with the AMRAAM which has its own radar.
The US is now taking a different strategy with dealing with attacking planes. A fleet of perpetually flying drones. If you know the route an enemy most likely will take to attack you instead of trying to rush over to intercept them and play the who has the best stealth/agility/BVR missile why not just mess them up by having a fleet of armed drones circling around 24 hours a day. The drones slow them down and make them waste fuel, ammo, time, and attrition.
This whole drone stuff is a test bed for a 24 hour flying defense force that an enemy has to get through. It won't be 100% effective but it is going to be such a pain and a bit of a psychological hit as what pilot wants to go up against a fleet of robots who have no qualms about what they may have to do to ruin your day.

@janon please read above quoted post, that what capacity if achieved by PAF to some extent will boost our defense many folds and now PAF officially have UCAV operational to which can hit ground targets which will be used against IA if war happened in future and we can benefit form Chinese and other friendly countries achievements in this field.

 

[janon]

@janon please read above quoted post, that what capacity if achieved by PAF to some extent will boost our defense many folds and now PAF officially have UCAV operational to which can hit ground targets which will be used against IA if war happened in future and we can benefit form Chinese and other friendly countries achievements in this field.

All I'm saying is, what the PAF can do, the IAF can as well. India has money to purchase whatever pakistan purchases and more. We can purchase from Israel or Russia or Europe, though we cannot purchase from China. And we have drone programs of our own as well, see 'Aura'. It has always been this way hasn't it, that Pakistan purchases weapons from abroad, and India does too.

As I said, I can't really predict what the future of air warfare will be like; I can only say that the IAF will seek to maintain its numerical and technological superiority over PAF.