Could China Save the Most Vital Part of Russia's Aircraft Carrier Program?

[PeaceGen]

Trump doesn't like NATO, he probably will disband it and leave Europe to their own device facing Russia.

i don't think so.

 

[haidian]

Without US's protection, Europe stands no chance against Russia, Russia can take Europe in a month if not sooner. So Trump starts to bully Europe and Europe has no other options but to eat the humble pie, cause they know their whole life is in US hands if US decides to ditch them, they are doomed.

 

[PeaceGen]

i don't see any reason why the US would dump NATO.

Trump said he was very happy with the renewed budgeting commitments the EU has made towards NATO.
that did go under-reported in western and international media however.

 

[haidian]

i don't see any reason why the US would dump NATO.

Trump said he was very happy with the renewed budgeting commitments the EU has made towards NATO.
that did go under-reported in western and international media however.

So you agree that Europe can't protect themselves without your US daddy, so always be nice to him, even he always picks on you and habitually bullies you.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

yeah, and it would *seem* that the rest of NATO's populations and the rest of the world population is behind your viewpoints, perhaps because they're echoed even by some western media outlets, and America-haters on forums like these..
plus, it does seem i'm one of the few, aside from Trump's Republican political base supporters back in the states, who currently still openly supports Trump.

and i have been keeping up with the news, because i too don't want to give Trump a blank cheque,
and it does seem Trump is fuming in private towards his aides over North-Korea's current attitude, and he might be about Russia's attitude too, soon-ish.
that's not necessarily a bad thing, we could well be looking at round 1 of a 10-round or 20-round diplomatic-economic boxing match against both North-Korea and Russia.
point is : so long as it's a diplomatic-economic boxing match, there's very little chance of things escalating or seriously deteriorating.

so for now i'll stay of the same opinions as i have expressed here before.

fact is, i saw this Republican Trump supporter on CNN yesterday, and what he pointed out is that America is doing great economically speaking. much better than under Obama.

which all ties back to my earlier arguments about talking sternly to your allies when that's needed and friendly towards your foes whenever you can.

so for now i don't see Trump losing support domestically. not even in 2020, mind you, because by then that Mueller probe will have run it's course, and it looks like he'll get through that too.

that means we're stuck with him on the international stage, no matter if you like his strategies, tactics and style.

and that means we over here in NATO should not be siding with forum agitators from primarily outside NATO, like the ones who call Trump Putin's poodle and things like that. i believe that goes for you too, Gotterdammerung, but hey, you're entitled to your own opinions ofcourse, and you've got every right to express those.

so how about we change that 'autobahn direction' argument of yours, to :
we're both driving on the autobahn on the correct side of the road, but we are driving in opposite directions (support for Trump or not).

The fact that you need to write a wall, which I didn't bother to read… tl; dr LOL

 

[PeaceGen]

So you agree that Europe can't protect themselves without your US daddy, so always be nice to him, even he always picks on you and habitually bullies you.

No, i don't. I don't agree Europe can't protect itself without the US (we merely continue to choose to *let* the US provide the real muscle to NATO, because it's what they want and saves us the trouble of running a defense industry ourselves - which makes us less of a threat to Russia, China, etc).
I don't agree agree we always have to be nice to the US either, and see that echoed by EU leaders often enough.

The fact that you need to write a wall, which I didn't bother to read… tl; dr LOL

some things can't be explained in one-liners, genius.

the fact you play ostrich, ends our discussions, as far as i'm concerned.

now you're probably going to try to get in that last insult to have the last say with an insult, right?
be prepared to get ignored.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

No, i don't. I don't agree Europe can't protect itself without the US (we merely continue to choose to *let* the US provide the real muscle to NATO, because it's what they want and saves us the trouble of running a defense industry ourselves - which makes us less of a threat to Russia, China, etc).
I don't agree agree we always have to be nice to the US either, and see that echoed by EU leaders often enough.

some things can't be explained in one-liners, genius.

the fact you play ostrich, ends our discussions, as far as i'm concerned.

now you're probably going to try to get in that last insult to have the last say with an insult, right?
be prepared to get ignored.

You write crap and it doesn't matter how long it is, then it becomes just long crap.

NATO bots have thick skin. Nothing can insult them. It's just theatralics acting insult. By the end if the day, they still need the money and the job.

Now, pretend to be insulted and pretend to be an ostrich and pretend to ignore me. LOL

 

[gambit]

Like it or not, Mr. Haidian is correct, that without US, NATO is essentially done.

The Orange One is correct in demanding NATO members spend their obligated money for NATO, but he is misled by some people in his administration to dismiss NATO as a deterrent factor against Russia.

Looky here...The Euros have their long history of fighting against each other. The Soviets and NATO put a stop to that. Regardless of how you feel about The Orange One, and I am disgusted by him, The Orange One is correct that the Euros should be strong enough WITHOUT US support.