Conversation between Afghan doctor and a tribal elder

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

@datalibdaz
Gilamjams are farsiwan, is'nt?
I know Afghans flooded your city and in a way they ruined peshawer but what other choice they did have? Those who were fighting, stayed there. Those who were not fighting people, became refugees in Pakistan and iran. Russians and communist afghans were carrying out genocide of rural population so that population is displaced as refugees and they could hunt mujahideens who were based in villages.
Now look at our situation, millions of pakhtuns have become refugees in their own country as IDPs? Are those IDPs coward beghairats? No sir....may allah protect our families from getting displaced.
My punjabi bros ask me to disconnect myself from pashtuns of other side, i can not even if i want to. We are linked even if we are separated by border. If afghanistan burns, so would be pashtun belt of afghanistan....so even if we live in two countries, we shouldnt quarrel with each other. May be its in the interest of pakistani establishment to keep afghanistan destabilize, but as a pakhtun i wont wish for that...

 

[datalibdaz]

@datalibdaz
Gilamjams are farsiwan, is'nt?
1) I know Afghans flooded your city and in a way they ruined peshawer but what other choice they did have? Those who were fighting, stayed there. Those who were not fighting people, became refugees in Pakistan and iran. 2 )Russians and communist afghans were carrying out genocide of rural population so that population is displaced as refugees and they could hunt mujahideens who were based in villages.
3) Now look at our situation, millions of pakhtuns have become refugees in their own country as IDPs? Are those IDPs coward beghairats? No sir....may allah protect our families from getting displaced.
4) My punjabi bros ask me to disconnect myself from pashtuns of other side, i can not even if i want to. 5) We are linked even if we are separated by border. If afghanistan burns, so would be pashtun belt of afghanistan....so even if we live in two countries, we shouldnt quarrel with each other. May be its in the interest of pakistani establishment to keep afghanistan destabilize, but as a pakhtun i wont wish for that...

1) We are proud to help them...But not when they point finger at us for being responsible for afghan destruction

2) And we helped those mujahideen (Pakhtun's)... Did we make a mistake helping them???

3) This was indeed our and the locals fault. Why did we give a chance for the army to come and secure the area for us when we were doing it was last three centuries... Why would you allow people to use the area as a base to carry out anti Pakistan activites from here...Because we were blinded by this patriotism...Other s took advantage of this..

4) No 3 point is the reason they want you to disconnect.. That is why we are getting a beating...

5) Dont worry...Afghanistan will remain under Pakistan because we cannot just let it go in the hands of communist and hindus...Just wait for withdrawl of Nato and US..

 

[RazorMC]

Afghan Doctor: So Mashr - do you call yourself Afghan or Pakistani?
Tribal elder: Well we are Pakistani but our ancestory and our land is also in Afghanistan.
...

Can you prove that this man is a tribal elder or just some Afghan refugee in Pakistan claiming rights to pieces of land that don't belong to him ??

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Can you prove that this man is a tribal elder or just some Afghan refugee in Pakistan claiming rights to pieces of land that don't belong to him ??

Typical mohajir ta'asub. So according to you every tribal is potential afghani refugee onless he proves it otherwise.

 

[RazorMC]

Typical punjabi ta'asub. So according to you every tribal is potential afghani refugee onless he proves it otherwise.

1. I'm not Punjabi

2. Since you posted this "conversation" you should be able to back up your claims. You have yet to prove that this was a real tribal and not a figment of your imagination.

3. Your attempt at labelling Pashtuns as Afghans is not working here.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

1. I'm not Punjabi

2. Since you posted this "conversation" you should be able to back up your claims. You have yet to prove that this was a real tribal and not a figment of your imagination.

3. Your attempt at labelling Pashtuns as Afghans is not working here.

Why do you think i have only tagged/mentioned pakhtun members in this thread?

 

[RazorMC]

Why do you think i have only tagged/mentioned pakhtun members in this thread?

Why you tagged or didn't tag is irrelevant. Your ethnic labelling doesn't work except for Afghans.

Typical mohajir ta'asub. So according to you every tribal is potential afghani refugee onless he proves it otherwise.

Why did you replace "Punjabi" with another label?? Can't handle a united Pakistan?

 

[muse]

I'm always stunned by the lack of confidence of most Pakistanis when it comes to Pashtuns/Afghans -- The vast majority of Pashtuns/Afghans live in Pakistan ---not in Afghanistan -- Do you understand this?? So why is it that Pakistanis should have so little confidence and Afghans so much, that they imagine Pakistan can be robbed?

Doesn't that Afghan Doctor (who probably trained in Pakistan) have a point? Why Islam for Pashtuns but Western schools and liberty for Pounjabis and the so called Mohajir (didn't Muhajirat end when you crossed the border into Pakistan? How long will you continue to deny yourselves??)

Shouldn't it have been the Pashtun elder asking the doctor how much longer he will choose to not make All pashtun areas part of Pakistan??

No confidence in what it means to be Pakistani -- WHY?? Uniformed duffers should be asking themselves?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Typical mohajir ta'asub. So according to you every tribal is potential afghani refugee onless he proves it otherwise.

Pak-one dear,

I'll be the first one to talk about Mohajir prejudice and ta'asub.

But it is a shame you are spreading this pathetic lowlife ta'asub so common in joke of a country called Afghanistan.

So at least in this thread, pot is calling a white kettle as a black one.

And this can only happen if you let prejudice and hate in your good heart.

I hope you know what I mean.


With due respect.


peace

 

[FaujHistorian]

I'm always stunned by the lack of confidence of most Pakistanis when it comes to Pashtuns/Afghans -- The vast majority of Pashtuns/Afghans live in Pakistan ---not in Afghanistan -.

Dear dear poster,

I agree with the overall thrust of your post. I respect deeply you way of thinking.


However in this thread and on this topic we must start using correct terms. and we must step up to the intellectual development of Afghanistanis.

Citizen of Afghanistan -- Should be called "Afghanistani" and not an Afghan (ethnicity in Pakistan and Afghanistan)

Citizens of Pakistani - Should be called "Pakistani", We do have different nationalities including Pashtuns. Let's not confuse the terms like Pashtun and Afghan.

....So why is it that Pakistanis should have so little confidence and Afghans so much, ...

I respectfully differ on this. Afghanistanis have zero confidence. How could they. Poor thangs have been under one gora boot or another for last 40 years.

We don't fear them, we pity Afghanistanis who tend to f@rt towards Pakistan. That's all.
We get dejected for the continuous $stupidity that may bring yet another invasion after 2014.

.....Doesn't that Afghan Doctor (who probably trained in Pakistan) have a point? Why Islam for Pashtuns but Western schools and liberty for Pounjabis and the so called Mohajir....

Islamo-Fascism is global and not limited to one area of Pakistan.

There is banori town mad-house Madrassah in Karachi (for Mohajir fundoos), Hafiz Saeed black faced' center in Mureedke for Punjabi fundoos, and samiulhaq's mad-house in Peshawar for Pashtun funddos.

Education in Pakistan is too free.

You want English school for your kids. Pay for it and they will build it.
You want Urdu school for your kids. Pay for it and they will build it.

You want Mad-house Madrassah education for your kids, Saudi and Irani will pay for it.


So you see the choice is not by the government (it should be but it isnt't). It is upto the parents. And my dear Sir, there are plenty of English and urdu schools for Pashtuns.

You gotta meet the refined Pashtuns from Peshawar, Charsadda, and Mardan. The creme de la creme of all Pashtuns combined.

Most of our military cadet schools are also catering to and open to Pashtuns' creme de la creme.


The problem is not with the civilized and settled Pakistani areas of Pashtuns. It is with the tribal areas in Pakistan and pretty much the whole south of Afghanistan.

Please do not lump and stereotype good, educated, and refined Pashtuns with the ones pushing donkey carts.

Because it is not fair. There are plenty of donkey cart pushes in other parts of Pakistan and who belong to other ethnicities.


My issue is with Pak-one, that he is posting stories that are harmful to Pashutns and Afghanistanis.

Pakistan has lived through the turmoil and we'll survive.

But Afghanistan got raped by so many goras for so long. We must care for them. Because they will not.


Peace to you. Peace to all.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Dear dear poster,

I agree with the overall thrust of your post. I respect deeply you way of thinking.


However in this thread and on this topic we must start using correct terms. and we must step up to the intellectual development of Afghanistanis.

Citizen of Afghanistan -- Should be called "Afghanistani" and not an Afghan (ethnicity in Pakistan and Afghanistan)

So beside trying to dominate Afghanistan like British, pakistanis are now deciding what should be the proper name of their nationality?..name "Pakistani" is creation of an individual, chaudri, that is not case with term Afghan....

Citizens of Pakistani - Should be called "Pakistani", We do have different nationalities including Pashtuns. Let's not confuse the terms like Pashtun and Afghan.

The fact is Pakistan has deliberatly confused us about pashtun and afghan terms...the same chaudri who invent name of Pakistan, said that A in Pakistan stand for Afghania. Afghan is synonymous with Pashtun. You cant murder history neither you mess with it.

I respectfully differ on this. Afghanistanis have zero confidence. How could they. Poor thangs have been under one gora boot or another for last 40 years.

You think this formula would work? Mocking Afghans, their war torn country so that we do not feel connected with them? While your ancestors bowed their heads to british and became their servants, now you and me are bowing our heads to uncle sam. Afghans preferred war rather than slavery and polishing boots of goras. Thats the difference...the khodi, ghairat , shaheen etc of allama iqbal doesnt fit on pakistanis but Afghans.

We don't fear them, we pity Afghanistanis who tend to f@rt towards Pakistan. That's all.
We get dejected for the continuous $stupidity that may bring yet another invasion after 2014.

You do no fear them but you fear the balkanization of Pakistan....no country is permenant in this world...

You gotta meet the refined Pashtuns from Peshawar, Charsadda, and Mardan. The creme de la creme of all Pashtuns combined.

Most of our military cadet schools are also catering to and open to Pashtuns' creme de la creme.


The problem is not with the civilized and settled Pakistani areas of Pashtuns. It is with the tribal areas in Pakistan and pretty much the whole south of Afghanistan.

Please do not lump and stereotype good, educated, and refined Pashtuns with the ones pushing donkey carts.

Severely disappointed in you...English and urdu and wearing patloon doesnt make you refined...it is what your former gora masters made you think like that...traditional hindostanis used call people like you and jinnah "kalay angraiz"...one's character and morals make him gentleman. A tribal on donkey might be more gentleman than kala angraiz... High self-esteem, self-respect, pashtunwali and our religousness distinguishes us from worthless kala angraiz..

My issue is with Pak-one, that he is posting stories that are harmful to Pashutns and Afghanistanis.

Pakistan has lived through the turmoil and we'll survive.

But Afghanistan got raped by so many goras for so long. We must care for them. Because they will not.


Peace to you. Peace to all.

As a state Afghanistan is 250 year old country, as a geographical entity it is thousands of year old country. It has survived countless invasions. Same can be said about pakistan? It just lost half of its portion after 25 years of its birth. Some one has said that Pakistan is strong state but weak nation, Afghanistan is strong nation but weak state.
At the end nations survive, geographical boundries tends to change. In future if pakistan distintegrates, do you think pakhtuns would call themeselves pakistani? No sir they would be just pakhtuns, thats identity that we are carrying on for thousands of years...we are in pakistan with purpose of co-existance and mutual cooperation, not to be desified....

@Sher Malang, unfortunately this is our situation in Pakistan...they have their own criterea for defining pakistani...a kala angraiz with suit and patloon speaking broken english mixed with urdu is refined pakistani than a cultural and proud pakhtun with shalwar kameez, wasket, turban and chaplai.

 

[Sher Malang]

Sher Malang[/MENTION], unfortunately this is our situation in Pakistan...they have their own criterea for defining pakistani...a kala angraiz with suit and patloon speaking broken english mixed with urdu is refined pakistani than a cultural and proud pakhtun with shalwar kameez, wasket, turban and chaplai.

True, and you are debating that with a historian one among them....

As a state Afghanistan is 250 year old country, as a geographical entity it is thousands of year old country. It has survived countless invasions. Same can be said about pakistan? It just lost half of its portion after 25 years of its birth. Some one has said that Pakistan is strong state but weak nation, Afghanistan is strong nation but weak state.
At the end nations survive, geographical boundries tends to change. In future if pakistan distintegrates, do you think pakhtuns would call themeselves pakistani? No sir they would be just pakhtuns, thats identity that we are carrying on for thousands of years...we are in pakistan with purpose of co-existance and mutual cooperation, not to be desified....

Well said!!

 

[Sugarcane]

LOL @ Karzai's stooge

Although made up story but still good answer by elder - "I am Pakistani"

 

[FaujHistorian]

.....
..... Some one has said that Pakistan is strong state but weak nation, Afghanistan is strong nation but weak state.....

You know me. I am brutally honest about history.

I'll give you that. I mean who can doubt that us Pakistanis have not tried very hard to make our beautiful country as a strong nation. No argument there.

But Afghanistan is a weak nation and the concept of state is sadly and unfortunately absent in complete sense.

Please do not mock your intellect by making such bombastic statements about cesspool of a country.


Such mocking will not make Afghanistan a nation while begging American forces to stay in Afghanistan for another 10 years.

Please no jokes when talking about history.

.....
As a state Afghanistan is 250 year old country, as a geographical entity it is thousands of year old country. It has survived countless invasions. Same can be said about pakistan? It just lost half of its portion after 25 years of its birth.....

Heck Afghanistan can be 20000 years old.

What matters now is how it is in 2013 or how will it be in 5 years from now.

And for this important period no boasting will help. No boasting at all.

Didn't expect someone with a handle of "Pak-one" to mock about a tragedy with its nation.

Didn't expect at all.

Please do justice with your land and you country and do not behave like an Afghanistani who is ready to f his own country at the drop of topi.




peace

p.s. I don't know who you are. But it doesn't help when you mock civilized and settled Pashtuns as "kala Angrez" (black biritisher).

Thank you. "Very very" thank you gora sahib.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

You know me. I am brutally honest about history.

I'll give you that. I mean who can doubt that us Pakistanis have not tried very hard to make our beautiful country as a strong nation. No argument there.

But Afghanistan is a weak nation and the concept of state is sadly and unfortunately absent in complete sense.

Please do not mock your intellect by making such bombastic statements about cesspool of a country.


Such mocking will not make Afghanistan a nation while begging American forces to stay in Afghanistan for another 10 years.

Please no jokes when talking about history.




Heck Afghanistan can be 20000 years old.

What matters now is how it is in 2013 or how will it be in 5 years from now.

And for this important period no boasting will help. No boasting at all.

Didn't expect someone with a handle of "Pak-one" to mock about a tragedy with its nation.

Didn't expect at all.

Please do justice with your land and you country and do not behave like an Afghanistani who is ready to f his own country at the drop of topi.




peace

p.s. I don't know who you are. But it doesn't help when you mock civilized and settled Pashtuns as "kala Angrez" (black biritisher).

Thank you. "Very very" thank you gora sahib.

I am also from settled area, from traditional yet very educated family...A westerized mommy daddy pakhtun might be very refined specie for you but we do not hold such culturally modified namonay in very high esteem.....the people of charsada and mardan that i have met are educated people yet very traditional, proud of their pakhto and pakhtunwali....and yes they are loyal and responsible citizens of pakistan.

Urdu is communicating langauge , english is official, thats all. Neither urdu is our culture nor english.