Concerning the Fall of Constantinople...

[mulj]

I'm talking about SOURCES.

Medieval chronicles. First-hand information. Testimonies.

no need to trust your sources, you believe to serb propaganda and that disqualify you as someone to be considered seriously outside ortodox fundametalicy positions.

 

[Foinikas]

no need to trust your sources, you believe to serb propaganda and that disqualify you as someone to be considered seriously outside ortodox fundametalicy positions.

With that mindset,how can one go forward? They are not "my sources". They are sources from people who lived in the era. They are people who wrote accounts of events centuries ago.

 

[mulj]

Ask that question yourself, after all my countrymen did not participate in war crimes and genocide done by serbs, yours did, so please do not lecture me about mindset and rubbish so called history that you promote, i live the consequences of that sick mindset from your ortodox cousins.

 

[Foinikas]

Ask that question yourself, after all my countrymen did not participate in war crimes and genocide done by serbs, yours did, so please do not lecture me about mindset and rubbish so called history that you promote, i live the consequences of that sick mindset from your ortodox cousins.

My countrymen did not participate in war crimes in BiH.

I wonder what does constantly mentioning the Serbs,have to do with the Fall of Constantinople. All you did was discard historical sources because you bitch about modern Serbs.

 

[mulj]

My countrymen did not participate in war crimes in BiH.

I wonder what does constantly mentioning the Serbs,have to do with the Fall of Constantinople. All you did was discard historical sources because you bitch about modern Serbs.

yes they did, greek volunteers fought along the serbs and had their own detachment. similiar to isis volunteers in syria.

they are ortodox and yours brotherly nation, so i took liberty that you share similar mindset in constructing reality "facts" which are mostly lies..

 

[Foinikas]

yes they did, greek volunteers fought along the serbs and had their own detachment. similiar to isis volunteers in syria.

they are ortodox and yours brotherly nation, so i took liberty that you share similar mindset in constructing reality "facts" which are mostly lies..

My boy,first of all there is absolutely no comparison to ISIS. Absolutely no comparison. If there's anything comparable to ISIS in this conflict,that's the thousands of mujahedeen who volunteered to fight in the ArBiH. And indeed,many of them would later become AQ members,some leading members and others would fight on the radical islamist side in other wars.

As for the Greek Volunteer Guard,there is no evidence at all that they took part in any atrocities. Even those who have accused them or implied that they did,provided no evidence,no proof of anything like that and the cases were dropped. Even when some dared to take them to court,not only did they present nothing,but the accusers didn't show up

Now tell me,are you some kid? Or simply uneducated of history? Because you're trying to discard historical sources and testimonies from 1453 by simply saying "ah,Serbs are evil,Serbs are Orthodox,so all Orthodox are evil,liars and all sources are probably fabricated".

That's just a childish,idiotic conclusion. In the same way I could say: "Ah,Ottomans killed people,Ottomans were Muslim,all Muslims are evil and unreliable".

Does that make any sense?

 

[thetutle]

Geez I am so glad Bosnia does not border Greece. These poeople are very quarrelsome. Ive seen Greeks argue with serbs every time they meet, its unbelievable. They argue with Macedonians. Ive never had an argument with either a serb or a Macedonian. God help greek neighbours.

 

[mulj]

My boy,first of all there is absolutely no comparison to ISIS. Absolutely no comparison. If there's anything comparable to ISIS in this conflict,that's the thousands of mujahedeen who volunteered to fight in the ArBiH. And indeed,many of them would later become AQ members,some leading members and others would fight on the radical islamist side in other wars.

As for the Greek Volunteer Guard,there is no evidence at all that they took part in any atrocities. Even those who have accused them or implied that they did,provided no evidence,no proof of anything like that and the cases were dropped. Even when some dared to take them to court,not only did they present nothing,but the accusers didn't show up

Now tell me,are you some kid? Or simply uneducated of history? Because you're trying to discard historical sources and testimonies from 1453 by simply saying "ah,Serbs are evil,Serbs are Orthodox,so all Orthodox are evil,liars and all sources are probably fabricated".

That's just a childish,idiotic conclusion. In the same way I could say: "Ah,Ottomans killed people,Ottomans were Muslim,all Muslims are evil and unreliable".

Does that make any sense?

Listen, you genocidal serbs lover, isis was vanilla formation in comparation with serbs atrocities and i find it offensive from yoir side to commemt about it at all as you deny participation of greeks volunteers along other ortodox extremists and criminals, only after those some volunteers came to fight along our side. So, pls spare me of moralizing, it is pathetic.

No, i disregard conemporary greek historical interpretaion, it is full of lies and it served as fuel for you national uprise in 19 century, nothin unique and correct about it.

 

[Foinikas]

Listen, you genocidal serbs lover, isis was vanilla formation in comparation with serbs atrocities and i find it offensive from yoir side to commemt about it at all as you deny participation of greeks volunteers along other ortodox extremists and criminals, only after those some volunteers came to fight along our side. So, pls spare me of moralizing, it is pathetic.

No, i disregard conemporary greek historical interpretaion, it is full of lies and it served as fuel for you national uprise in 19 century, nothin unique and correct about it.

Riiiight....ok buddy,have a nice day. Take care and stop spamming the thread with nonsense.

 

[mulj]

Riiiight....ok buddy,have a nice day. Take care and stop spamming the thread with nonsense.

have a nice day too. I will continue to shred some light on thread despite your efforts for keeping it narrow minded and biased.

 

[Rafi]

This was the time of empires, Istanbul is a Turkish city and always will be, InshAllah. What's the point arguing about it.

 

[[TR]AHMET]

Meanwhile in Turkey...

Connection denied by Geolocation

Turkey is converting another former Byzantine church into a mosque

As with the Hagia Sophia, the decision is seen as being geared to consolidate the conservative and religious support base of Erdogan's ruling party at a time when his popularity is under strain.

www.euronews.com

west have converted 344 mosques into churches as well, we warned but they didnt listen us.

Batı, ayakta cami bırakmadı: 344 Türk eserini kiliseye çevirdiler

www.turkiyegazetesi.com.tr

Kariye was a museum since long time but no one was interests with this church because there is no christian community over there. so this Muslim area need a mosque and it will be serve for Muslims prayers, it is very good any ?

 

[TNT]

It didn't work like that back then. There was rarely anything compared to the propaganda of today. It's history and these are the sources. This subject has been researched again and again,accounts and sources have been investigated and compared.
If you as a muslim and pro-Ottoman cannot accept it,that is another matter. And I'm not only saying you as TNT,but any person who thinks in the same way.

Also what you said about "muslims have mostly been humane" and then giving Saladin as an example,that is just generalizing and being vague. Saladin was an exceptional and rare figure in Muslim history,for many reasons. There were quite a lot of aggressive and oppressive muslims even if you want to believe it or discard everything from Byzantine to Frankish to Northern European sources as "propaganda".

Now watch it,I'm not saying all muslims or that "most muslims" were evil. But saying "muslims have mostly been humane",that is also a generalisation.

It seems that a lot of muslims,from what I see here,have a problem with historical sources and somehow compare it to modern propaganda campaigns of the 20th and 21st century by the Western world.

History is very rarely written by neutral sources, its written by victors and losers at the same time. The version of victor and loser will always be very different. I also agree with u that muslim conquerors have been cruel and not only to non Muslims but to their own muslim brothers as well. But as i study more and more, i find that every race have been cruel and infact muslims were less cruel, which i termed as mostly humane, i know this comparison is not straight forward. Salahuddin may be an exception for westerners but in muslim history, he is not an exception. The rest i dont disagree with u, humans are cruel by nature and we can see it till this day.

 

[Foinikas]

History is very rarely written by neutral sources,

Sorry,but that sounds like a cheap excuse to discard testimonies from the era. There are multiple sources of different backgrounds,that describe the same events.

 

[TNT]

Sorry,but that sounds like a cheap excuse to discard testimonies from the era. There are multiple sources of different backgrounds,that describe the same events.

And there are similar such testimonies and sources on opposite side as well.