Coming into light USAs strike against Pakistan?

[aryan2007]

Aryan,
As a guest to a Pakistani forum I expect you to respect fellow members and not to hurt their feeling.
I'm sure you meant well but a simple 'sorry' would have been more approperiate than the rest of your reply.

Point Noted

 

[jantobanto]

frist of , all one thing shouldbe clear is that this , thread is not unlogical.

this thread has a topic , which is in the minds of evry PAKISTANI these days.

it wasnt PAKISTAN or pakistanis who were beating the war drums?

all that begains with USAs, dreams to destroy every ISLAMIC STATE, which is powerfull in any means.

in last 25 days GW . BUSH, gave statments reguarding attacks on pakistan, CENTCOM already had its war games in this regrd.

FRIST, G.W.BUSH said he is worried about pakistans nueks, and wanted to secure them anyway, even US SPECIAL FORCES have to go inside pakistan.

next was more recntly, that USA will attack pakistan if USA will get any info regrdng OSAMA BIN LADEN?

MR, SALIM ITS ALLL TRUE , AND WE WANA DISCUSS THAT, WHTS THE PROBLM???

pakistanis should make there eyes open, about the reality that ! pakistan is under serious threat not from INDIA but from our close allay USA.


I made this thread, to discuss best possible solutions, not to get stupid responses.

as sugsted by our senior member mr, neo , it isnt possible to shift our nueks to any other country.

but one thing is sure that CHINA will be with us,
and we can count on CHINA.

IN my view paklistan should go closer to its natural and logical allies LIKE IRAN and may be RUSSSIA???


iran has a lot of pottential to become big byer of our home produced arms + it has a lot resourses in form oil and gas resrves.


RUSSIA is a powerfull country, we certnly need to involve with country like russia, evn we cant get arms from RUSSIA , BUT we need its powerfull role in pacts like ( SHANGHAI FIVE ) and also we need to include INDIA as our newly found freind?

 

[t-birds]

i do not think that the US would attack Pakistan on its own. It would surely raise its own support with countries like India, who are only to willing to support such a campaign. With regards to China... we would probably only get political support rather than military as any such act from them would result in a block aid of its oil supplies from the Arabian Sea which the US has a big presence and not to mention the Indian Navy from the Indian Ocean. China does not even have an air craft carrier, whilst the US has presently three docked near Iran.

In the 1971 war, where East Pakistan became Bangladesh China assisted very little...!!!

Though i do believe that in order to stop such an adventure from the US, Pakistan should not be isolated and should meet with trusted allies like the Saudis who have alot of economical clout with America and supports the Pakistanis alot.

 

[t-birds]

May i also point out that trusting in countries like Russia and India who have in the passed only sort to destroy pakistan is not a good option....!!!!

i also dont believe that the US would risk a full scale war with Pakistan and that any such attempt to seize its nukes would be done covertly by special forces assisted by satelites and other advanced tech.

I believe that if the US wanted to destroy Pakistan and turn it into a weaker and more controllable state, it would need to rely on Pakistans arch rival India, who does has the military means to invade and occupy the country. The US would only seem to work in the shadows by sending in special forces to destroy any nuclear reactors and ballistics seen outer space and claim it was the indians who organised and constructed this mission in order to protect their homeland from being bombed.

 

[t-birds]

A near example to this is the on going conflict in Somialia.... The Ethopians invaded the Horns of Africa in a pretence that Islamic Fundamentalists asscoiated with Osama Bin Laden has taken control over the territories...!!!

However, much of the planning and coordinating was done in the White house. American special forces with the help of USAF bombed targets and arranged a block aid around the country in order to prevent "Terrorists" from escaping...!!!

 

[jantobanto]

T-BIRDS, THANKS, u did a great job, this post is in nearly right direction.
but my dear, u cant trust SAUDI ARABIA, they are not free to decide anything, and saudiarabia surely dosnt have any power to go against USAs adventure.


on the other hand IRAN surely , and rightly has the political power and corruge to at least TO supprt us, defending PAKISTAN aginst USA.


ABOUT, oil it is also IRAN, WHICH is more ezy option ! because of its location, any thing can be transported by land into iran and from iran to pakistan.

about , china they will going to support us , i am sure because , china cant jst simply sit and look pakistan falling apart, most of our progress is , because of CHINESE CO-OPRATION.

and also, china has a permenant seat in securty concil.

at least we can get evn , used some j-10s immeditly to bloster our skys.


we, need to get into our self grove, or self confideance, because we crtnly have the capablity to defend our selves + we should realize there would be no 1 to support us on the battle field.


we have to face the enemy in war, what we need is more arms to meet any danger.


it is very important , that our PAF big heads, should understand the immdedite and fast growing needs

instead sitting and having dreams of f-16s and keep saying that , they are looking the tactical study about j-10s, jst to get more cash on f-16s deals.


we need to take actions before our enmey take action on us.????

 

[t-birds]

Iran has been slowly isolated by the US and other Western countries with regards to "Tryin to attain Nuclear weapons". The Pakistanis have consistantly been accused of assisting them through Abdul Qadeer's networks. Any attempt by them to try and assist Pakistan in any way would prove there point and thus cause a justification for invasion.

The US would use this to isolate Pakistan from the world community which would make us more Vunerable for an attack...!!!

Iran can supply us with oil, though there are at present no pipe lines or infrustucture to assist us and any such adventure will easily fall prey to the Raptors lerking around the Arabian Sea.

Any how most if not all Pakistans oil is imported through Saudi and any changes to this must be considered as long term....

Iran does not have a military might to stop the US and/or Israel from bombing its own Terrortory let alone ours. And for decades Iran has lived under economic sanctions and thus are too weak to assist us against in any such attack from the US (The only Super Power...!!!)

"The US would be Killing two birds from one stone"....

China has a Perminate seat at the UN security Council thus would be more help to us Politically... though it has far too much to lose with open conflict from Western countries and with the Major military bases in Japan and Taiwan China would be forced to retreat
and rethink its Strategy.

J-10s would be useless against Indian Sukhoi's and American F22s, and with regards to our F-16s.... we might as well leave them out...!!!! not to mention if out ports become blocked by the Indian/Amercian Navy. We would be at there Mercy....!!!!

We would need to face our enemy at war.... even though they would be advancing on us on all sides...!!!! and with such force placed against the Pakistani army, it would not be long before we get crushed...!!!!

 

[t-birds]

I know it sound awful when you read this....

My heart sinks when re-reading what i have posted...!!! I hope we can stand tall..., shoulder to shoulder to face our enemies.... and if this is to be our End then i hope we could make such an end as worthy of Remembrance.....

 

[t-birds]

LONG LIVE PAKISTAN....................................

 

[t-birds]

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

The statements made by Mr. Bush should be dealt with immediately by Pakistan FO and a strong response should be given to US... First of all it should be done.

Special forces option is not functional and Air Strikes against Pakistan is an Open war. US forces builtup at Arabian Sea for Open war with Pakistan Can be dealt with, its not that any country who has the weapons and the will to Defend will be beaten immediately by US Power in Technology.

In such times Pakistan should have a relationship with China which foresees that such attacks are meant on China it-self, such a treaty is required.

All Islamic Nations i dont think will be bothered as usual as they are happy with rich life.

Only way out is to Make a Strong responsive posture for US and keep China closer than ever. We need all the support of China in such a situation.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

As far as my knowledge goes Pak has threatened to use nukes against India under the following conditions:

1) If India attacks & threatens to cut South of Pakistan from its north.

2) If India threatens to cut water supply to Pak.

3) If India tries to stifle Pak's economy.

4) If India or anybody tries to confiscate Pak's nuclear weapons.

Now barring the first point, I personally think Pak is over streatching its conditions for nuke use. For 2 & 3, there are international courts, UN where Pak can go to resolve the matter. Point 4 is absolutely unnecessary. If Pak is so trigger happy then it should use the nukes against the involved party why unnecessary threaten India. Nuclear weapons are for defensive purpose & incase of point 2,3 & 4 Pak is adopting an offensive posture. This kind of shallow threshold strategy can be counter productive. If incase US decides to launch an offensive to confiscate Pak's nuclear arsenal India could probably be the first to use nuclear weapons against Pak to save itself from unnecessary strike.

Points 3 I am not familiar with, could you provide links to validate those?

With respect to point 2, and perhaps tiying in 3 indirectly - while any conflict over the "cutoff" of waters could be potentially resolved utilizing the mechanism provided for in the IWT, the threat would arise from the amount of time it would take to resolve the issue, and If India were to cutoff the water, before any arbitration was complete. That would be a situation that would devastate Pakistan economically and socially - it would have catastrophic effects on sixty percent of the population that lives in the rural areas and depends upon that water for their existence.

So basically you are saying that US isn't bothered about Pak's doctrine for nuclear use. And how is nuking India going to ascertain Pak's survival? All that it would do is finish any little hope for Pak. Personally I believe that the doctrine is nothing more than a shot in the dark. US would decide to launch an offensive against Pak only if Pak gov doesn't co-operate in WoT or radical mullahs gain foothold in Islamabad.

Perhaps I should clarify what I meant earlier.

The US is bothered about Pakistan's doctrine - in fact that would be one of the reasons I believe the US will not take the gamble to invade or bomb Pakistan. But the US has to believe that certain sections within Pakistan would consider an attempt to secure nukes as "crossing the threshold", otherwise it takes one very dangerous variable out of their equation.

At the end of the day, no one wants conflict - The "war mongering analysis", if "unofficially" sanctioned, is probably more for spurring the GoP towards ensuring that controls don't break down, so that a situation does not arise where the US seriously contemplates intervention. The remainder is probably a continuation of the infatuation of certain sections of the Western Media with "the state within a state" stuff, and other "Islamic Bomb" nightmare scenarios.

Obviously armchair warriors are not going to set policy - most of the arguments from people here, in defense of Pakistan's "doctrine", are simply a refutation of the suggestion that there is any feasible or realistic option for anyone to secure Pakistan's nukes.

 

[t-birds]

Well lets hope you are right...? Though the US has been gambling alot lately, (Iraq & Afghanstan)....

 

[t-birds]

I think our best option is to buy time to prepare..... it is important for Pakistan to prepare for any eventuality, thus any surprises will be apprehented affectively. We must establish a strong Deterrent, thus any miss adventure would be dealt with in the most severe manner.

Nuclear submarines is one good example. Creating various platforms would be advantageous for Pakistan and would make any enemy think twice...!!! before carrying out any act....

I do not agree that we should leave the Muslim nations out...!!! As history proves that Divide and Conquer is at the heart of any Western conquest into Muslim Territories.

 

[jantobanto]

mr, t-bird , there is a theory in which a enemy of the enemy can become best friend.


comming to ur points, as u mentioned, my dear,

1. frist of all , joining IRAN strategicaly will issolate usa not pakistan because, of the war front,
because by making war front expanding from IRAN TO PAKISTAN will be imposible to attack for USA, BECAUSE of its expenses , its huge battle field and the number of troops to make that actuly happen?



it will boost both pakistan and iran politicly , socialy , defensivly and it will bring stop to USAs invasion to every muslim state on this EARTH.


i dont think that USA can make it a reason to attack us , if pakistan make IRAN A PARTENER for peace , a partener in , war on terror and in ecnomics and in trade.


if , pakistan can do that, u look how fast this alliance can grow, one thing is sure there are countries, and nations which actully doesnt like this single SUPER POWER dominated WORLD.

I think if, pakistan can try! the alliance what USA is trying to kill ? it would be a fatal blow to USA. and also it will certnly bring some order to world.


this will surely can, be a source of atraction for CHINA + RUSSIA ???

SURLY, usa doesnt have might to attack pakistan and iran same, time and about pakistani nuek assistance the story already ended today, US inttelignce report says that iran already stop its nuek activity?


if, pakistan is a target it, will be going to attack, any reason can be put and same to iran also so, if we and iranians both have same enemy, and if both were the target s, why should not face enemy togather???


about J-10s my friend, in war u need weapons with skills, so if we can use our skills with most getable advnce weapon i think we can defend our selves at least.


and about, AMERICAN FORCES comming from all sides, certnly our borders with CHINA AND IRAN , i think impossible to access for usa?


plz, dont loss hopes, or dont be affraid by USAs miltry might have fun.


because, we r muslims , and we were taught there will be victory if do our best:cheers: ......