Coming into light USAs strike against Pakistan?

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

though what was that?? this won't appeal to the Pakistanis IMO [/size]

Aryan,
Please refrain from stereotyping. As a Pakistani I find that remark insulting.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

The paranoia that the world is planning to capture Pakistan is seizing the Pakistani posters.

On what is this premise based? Or is it a nightmare caused by getting into bed from the wrong side? This thread has that much of credibility as those who claim that Doomsday is expected tomorrow!

The issue is - whatever for should anyone capture/ invade Pakistan? There has to be some rationale. It is not as routine as if one were buying a pound of mutton in a market! One must understand that an invasion in the modern context is not that easy!

Or is this a way to draw attention to oneself so as to take cover and deflect the attention of posters of the intrinsic faultlines that have developed in Pakistan?

For Christ's sake, cease battling shadows, your ghosts in a desperate attempt to exorcise yourself from your self generated problems and instead discuss things that are plausible and within the realms of reality.

Quite being reincarnated Don Quixotes.

Face up to the problem in Pakistan as men instead of wallowing in self pity!

Take it easy man. Pakistanis men are facing problems at home as men and woman as woman. Anyway another highly stupid thread followed by pathetic posts.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

That has got to be one of the dumbest "doctrines" I have ever heard of. And whoever made it should be demoted to floor sweeper.

India has a bigger nuclear arsenal. Pakistan can't possibly hit the whole of India simultaneously. By even launching a single attack, Pakistan risks being wiped out all together not only by India, but all the western nations who have a big financial stake in India.

The cost/benifit analysis in this case is beyond imbalanced.

PA knows that India is 4 times bigger in area wise and 7 times bigger in population. So in case of nuke war you can be sure that only sects will survive in India if Pak is destroyed.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Well Said Salim as usual!!



though what was that?? this won't appeal to the Pakistanis IMO

Jesus is one of the most respected prophets in Islam so u better watch ur hand next time.

 

[aryan2007]

Aryan,
Please refrain from stereotyping. As a Pakistani I find that remark insulting.

Jesus is one of the most respected prophets in Islam so u better watch ur hand next time.

For christsake's it was meant as a joke..

Its like fer BUddha's sake Indians do this......

 

[Bushroda]

Well since we have already threatened India with "being nuked" and we haven't "evaporated", I'd say that you are way off base.

The idea is to raise the specter of a nuclear exchange that would be devastating, and therefore prevent any sort of intervention.

I'd say that so far its worked - otherwise there wouldn't be so much talk about "no good solutions".

Call spade a spade.. India would use nukes only if nukes are used against it. It wouldn't just jump in with all its weapons if someone thretens to use it against them under certain conditions. If tomorrow US decides to confiscate Pak's nuclear weapons India would take all precautionary measures necessary with in its boundary & not jump in unless Pak gets aggresive. By putting up such stupid doctorines Pak is only showcasing itself as a irresponsible nuclear weapon state & honestly I don't think US or any other country buys this Pak doctrine. The bottomline is you don't use a jackhammer to crack open a nut. If someone comes after your nuclear assets them try to make them more secure then threaten to use them against another country which has got nothing to do with.

 

[Neo]

Ever heard of MAD theory?

Nuclear exchange is the last option and I'm sure there are other scenarios to safeguard our nukes incase US or anyone else tries to capture them.
Threat to nuke India would only serve as a deterrance to discourage coming after our nukes.

I'm sure ISI and PA also have theories to counter US or any other nation trying to steal or disable/dertroy our arsenal and infrastructure...I am thinking about the possibility of safe transfer to locations abroad like China or even KSA.
Pakistan went nuclear in May 1998 with China's blessing, she's approved and supported us to counter India.
Disarmed Pakistan would severly destabalise the region with far reaching consequences that would affect China immidiately.

Don't expect China to agree with any such agression against a key ally in the region.

 

[Neo]

The paranoia that the world is planning to capture Pakistan is seizing the Pakistani posters.

On what is this premise based? Or is it a nightmare caused by getting into bed from the wrong side? This thread has that much of credibility as those who claim that Doomsday is expected tomorrow!

The issue is - whatever for should anyone capture/ invade Pakistan? There has to be some rationale. It is not as routine as if one were buying a pound of mutton in a market! One must understand that an invasion in the modern context is not that easy!

Or is this a way to draw attention to oneself so as to take cover and deflect the attention of posters of the intrinsic faultlines that have developed in Pakistan?

For Christ's sake, cease battling shadows, your ghosts in a desperate attempt to exorcise yourself from your self generated problems and instead discuss things that are plausible and within the realms of reality.

Quite being reincarnated Don Quixotes.

Face up to the problem in Pakistan as men instead of wallowing in self pity!

Sir,

Generally I agree with your post but I'm sure you'll agree that the hype is not generated by Defence.pk members or Pakistani officials but rather by western media, we're simply countering the socalled 'doomsday scenario and Pakistan experts'.

I've seen too much assumption and no facts sofar. A lot has to go wrong for UNSC to allow US to confiscate Pak nukes, even then in all scenarios US is depending on support from PA, again 'assuming' that there will be fractions within the establishment.
I'll not deny the possibility of PA splitting up but the majority will be loyal to the country and will counter and defend the nukes with their lives.
We didn't come so far to see our nukes being confiscated, we might lose a few but there'll be enough for the agressor and her allies to pay for the mistake of the century.

 

[Neo]

For christsake's it was meant as a joke..

Its like fer BUddha's sake Indians do this......

Aryan,
As a guest to a Pakistani forum I expect you to respect fellow members and not to hurt their feeling.
I'm sure you meant well but a simple 'sorry' would have been more approperiate than the rest of your reply.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Sir,

Generally I agree with your post but I'm sure you'll agree that the hype is not generated by Defence.pk members or Pakistani officials but rather by western media, we're simply countering the socalled 'doomsday scenario and Pakistan experts'.

I've seen too much assumption and no facts sofar. A lot has to go wrong for UNSC to allow US to confiscate Pak nukes, even then in all scenarios US is depending on support from PA, again 'assuming' that there will be fractions within the establishment.
I'll not deny the possibility of PA splitting up but the majority will be loyal to the country and will counter and defend the nukes with their lives.
We didn't come so far to see our nukes being confiscated, we might lose a few but there'll be enough for the agressor and her allies to pay for the mistake of the century.

Neo,

I am all for discussion on issue that are hot potatoes around the world.

However, personal fears and imagined issues (without an iota of logic or fact) as thread starters only leads to crazy and unfounded and unfortunate remarks leading to nowhere.

It is not for me to comment, lest I am misunderstood, but then, this forum has shown great strides since it began and has become credible and classy. It sure saddens all well wishers of the forum that it is being dragged low in intellectual appeal, when it has established itself to be a front runner in the forum world!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Call spade a spade.. India would use nukes only if nukes are used against it. It wouldn't just jump in with all its weapons if someone thretens to use it against them under certain conditions. If tomorrow US decides to confiscate Pak's nuclear weapons India would take all precautionary measures necessary with in its boundary & not jump in unless Pak gets aggresive. By putting up such stupid doctorines Pak is only showcasing itself as a irresponsible nuclear weapon state & honestly I don't think US or any other country buys this Pak doctrine. The bottomline is you don't use a jackhammer to crack open a nut. If someone comes after your nuclear assets them try to make them more secure then threaten to use them against another country which has got nothing to do with.

No one wants nuclear war here, and Pakistan isn't just threatening to use nuclear weapons for the heck of it, but only in a situation it would see as an existential threat. A US or Indian or joint attempt to confiscate Pakistan's nuclear weapons would be considered such an "existential threat" and if the threat of using nukes under such a situation is not justifiable, to prevent the "existential threat" situation from arising in the first place, then I am not sure what situation would allow it to be.

There is not much Pakistan can do to prevent an air assault from the US on its nuclear facilities, and considering how trigger happy the US has been lately and the amount of fear mongering war drum beating analysis that has come out in the US media, it is not "irresponsible" to suggest that such misguided adventurism could result in the very situation it seeks to prevent.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

AM,

India would be the last one to join any adventure to knock out Pakistan's nuclear facilities, because it will be the first ones to be affected by a retaliatory attack since US is way out from the Pakistan nuclear envelope.

The US media can state what it wants, but the US Administration is not stupid to kill the golden goose.

If one observes the entire gamut of media reports, while Musharraf may appear to be in the US' doghouse, it has not closed its options to keep Pakistan well within its sphere of influence by backing a more receptive follower of the US dictates i.e. Benazir.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I find that I have already been misunderstood about what I meant by imagined threats as thread starters.

IN the light of rising plans to invade pakistan.
is USA TRYING to capture another ISLAMIC STATE?

This should have had some links or facts stated to bring credibility of the statement rather than a bland one and a half liner.

If it alludes to Armitage's remarks, then it should also be noted that Bush has debunked the same. Therefore, where is the rationale to pick up a fight with the US when none exists.

If it is about the media speculation and the Kagan article, then it does warrant notice, but not alarm. For discussion's sake, the US may even have agents within Pakistan all geared to seize the nuclear assets. But the million dollar issue is that they are not aware as to where they are!!!!!! So, where is the issue of US seizing the nuclear assets.

Capture an Islamic state? Why this paranoia? Is capturing that easy? If it were then Iraq and Afghanistan would be in the US' bag and Kurdistan in Turkey's kitty! And what is more important and the crux of the whole thing is that the Pakistani Army is not a bunch like the much hyped (western media again!) Iraqi Republican Guards, which crumbled like a pack of cards! To believe that the Pak Army is equivalent of the Iraqi Army is an insult to those who have been defending the Pak borders so far.

 

[Bushroda]

No one wants nuclear war here, and Pakistan isn't just threatening to use nuclear weapons for the heck of it, but only in a situation it would see as an existential threat. A US or Indian or joint attempt to confiscate Pakistan's nuclear weapons would be considered such an "existential threat" and if the threat of using nukes under such a situation is not justifiable, to prevent the "existential threat" situation from arising in the first place, then I am not sure what situation would allow it to be.

As far as my knowledge goes Pak has threatened to use nukes against India under the following conditions:

1) If India attacks & threatens to cut South of Pakistan from its north.

2) If India threatens to cut water supply to Pak.

3) If India tries to stifle Pak's economy.

4) If India or anybody tries to confiscate Pak's nuclear weapons.

Now barring the first point, I personally think Pak is over streatching its conditions for nuke use. For 2 & 3, there are international courts, UN where Pak can go to resolve the matter. Point 4 is absolutely unnecessary. If Pak is so trigger happy then it should use the nukes against the involved party why unnecessary threaten India. Nuclear weapons are for defensive purpose & incase of point 2,3 & 4 Pak is adopting an offensive posture. This kind of shallow threshold strategy can be counter productive. If incase US decides to launch an offensive to confiscate Pak's nuclear arsenal India could probably be the first to use nuclear weapons against Pak to save itself from unnecessary strike.

There is not much Pakistan can do to prevent an air assault from the US on its nuclear facilities, and considering how trigger happy the US has been lately and the amount of fear mongering war drum beating analysis that has come out in the US media, it is not "irresponsible" to suggest that such misguided adventurism could result in the very situation it seeks to prevent.

So basically you are saying that US isn't bothered about Pak's doctrine for nuclear use. And how is nuking India going to ascertain Pak's survival? All that it would do is finish any little hope for Pak. Personally I believe that the doctrine is nothing more than a shot in the dark. US would decide to launch an offensive against Pak only if Pak gov doesn't co-operate in WoT or radical mullahs gain foothold in Islamabad.

 

[IceCold]

Why is that every now and then threads like these are pasted here. There is absolutely no point of discussing something which is not possible by a longshot. US evading pakistan! why in the hell would US do something like this? For a misadventure like this US would need to pull out all its resources to capture pakistan, i highly doubt US is in a position to do so. Also since there is a very likely chance that democratics will win, perhaps they are already winning about withdrawing the troops from iraq and most probally afghanistan, will they be willing to start a new conflict which could prove to be a graveyard for the american soliders. The worst case scenario is US might strike pre-emptive on pakistan nuclear aersnal, this is possible to some extent but US does not have the exact locations of the nukes which means that even if it succeeds in destroying a few, pakistan will have left to strike wherever US forces are present either in afghanistan or iraq for that matter or another option in a moment like this would be that pakistan may transfer its weapons to iran inorder to secure them from such a strike. This is also an highly unlikely solution for US since transfering of the weapons to iran is the last thing US would ever want. Regarding india, i personaly dont think pakistan would do something like this, means if india does not decide to be the front line state against pakistan which it always wants to like after 9/11 india offered its bases to US to strike pakistan and that was the very reason pakistan decided to join WOT, pakistan would refrain from a direct attack on india of anysort.