Colt Ar-15 snow test

[MilSpec]

If you want to talk about ballistics there is a manufactured upper receiver for Ar-15 that's chambered for the .50 beowulf and that's going to be far more fierce and and lethal in regards to ballistics then the 7.62 at 200 yards and lower.


No surprise designed by the same man who designed the Ar-10 and Ar-15.

As a design platform, Ak 47, is designed to be extremely reliable, as a Intermediate cartridge 7.62 x 39 has excellent terminal ballistics at 0-300 yard range.

Now if you do want to compare apples to apples on purely reliability, lets compare AK semi auto chambered in 5.56 nato to Ar15, the chances are AK's will come on top, because of allowances in the trigger mechanism, and the seal of the gas port and length of piston of the gas piston.

If you do want to compare accuracy of AR15, in the engagement ranges of 0-300 yard, AR15 will always come on top.

Now if you do want to compare fancy AR builds' then compare them to rifle dynamics or krebs custom or VZ58 variants.

As far as .50 beowulf is concerned, a 7.62 x 39 112 gr bullet will carry 3200 Joules @ 3100 ft/s whereas that short .50 cal will carry similar energy at half the speed, although terminal ballistics will be better, but engagement ranges are shorter than 100 yards and for anything longer bullet drop compensation is ridiculous... your argument might have soared better with a 6.5SPC or a 6.8 grendel.

As you said having shot 2500 rounds on a AK, your evaluation of accuracy of AK @ 200 yards is quite surprising and disdain for the system in general even more perplexing.

 

[MilSpec]

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So what if the Ak-47 user is able to fire every time he pulls the trigger (which is bs) all it takes is one round to land and hit (to gain advantage or win) and the system more likely to achieve that is the Ar-15. It's really not about how many rounds you can fire off but how many rounds it takes you to hit that is winning the fight. That in my definition is true reliability.

Engagement range?? If your engagement range is 0-200 yards and you cannot hit a human size target with an AK47 chambered in 7.62 x 39, the you have other problems to worry about.

Now where is you "fight" happening to win it, is it at 50 yards, where AK will down a target with every hit, or at 450 yards where AR will hit consistently, and AK will struggle or at 750 yards where AK and AR are both utterly useless.

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I don't know why you find so much comfort in being able to fire off so many inaccurate rounds? High accuracy isn't the Ak-47s highlight, and the problem becomes even worse if it's multiple targets. Though I suppose you could add a muzzle brake to reduce muzzle climb making target acquisition faster and easier but there are trade offs.

I don't understand why you find so much comfort in firing many inaccurate rounds, one accurate round is better than many inaccurate rounds.

for me comfortable engagement if 100-200 yards, at 100 yards, my AK is at zero, With my match grade barrel and krebs trigger job, my rifle is pretty accurate, and I WILL HIT A HUMAN SIZE TARGET EVERY TIME upto 300 yards, and it has done so twice at ITTS meets side by side with AR costing 4 times of my AK. The next engagement range for me is 600 yards, I shoot match grade .308 158 gr from a bolt action. So it would be safe to say I know what I am hitting with my platforms. Next time you are in CO, hit me up for some range time, I am sure, the AK wont disappoint.

 

[A1Kaid]

Engagement range?? If your engagement range is 0-200 yards and you cannot hit a human size target with an AK47 chambered in 7.62 x 39, the you have other problems to worry about.

Now where is you "fight" happening to win it, is it at 50 yards, where AK will down a target with every hit, or at 450 yards where AR will hit consistently, and AK will struggle or at 750 yards where AK and AR are both utterly useless.



for me comfortable engagement if 100-200 yards, at 100 yards, my AK is at zero, With my match grade barrel and krebs trigger job, my rifle is pretty accurate, and I WILL HIT A HUMAN SIZE TARGET EVERY TIME upto 300 yards, and it has done so twice at ITTS meets side by side with AR costing 4 times of my AK. The next engagement range for me is 600 yards, I shoot match grade .308 158 gr from a bolt action. So it would be safe to say I know what I am hitting with my platforms. Next time you are in CO, hit me up for some range time, I am sure, the AK wont disappoint.

Engagement range?? If your engagement range is 0-200 yards and you cannot hit a human size target with an AK47 chambered in 7.62 x 39, the you have other problems to worry about.

What you assume is the human size target will be out in the open--which is never really the case in combat usually an enemy will always take cover or concealment like hide in a building and shooting from a window at x range or an enemy behind a wall peaking out intermittently to return fire in these realistic combat scenarios a high accuracy weapons is best, and the Ar-15 is best at precision.

Alright if you are just firing at someone in the plain open field no cover, no concealment (not really a combat scenario more like fictitious) then an Ak-47 will do the job. But it's going to be more difficult trying to shoot a part of the human body behind cover and that is only exposed like a head or arm that too with return fire coming your way, you aren't always going to have time to set up your shot, but having a more accurate weapon system betters your chances that when you do fire multiple shots
you have greater chance of hitting that small exposed body part or area.

Look at Afghanistan combat scenarios, US soldiers often will take fire and get behind a mud wall or some structure for cover the Taliban fighter typically shoots beyond 100 yards sometimes 200 yards they also typically use Ak-47 and as you know the Taliban are generally experienced with the AK-47 but they have a lot of trouble hitting a US soldier behind cover part of the reason is there weapon isn't effectively accurate at hitting a small exposed area like a helmet or arm. In order to compensate for their lack of accuracy they tend to get closer before firing or just spray in the general direction (which expose your position often).

 

[MilSpec]

What you assume is the human size target will be out in the open--which is never really the case in combat usually an enemy will always take cover or concealment like hide in a building and shooting from a window at x range or an enemy behind a wall peaking out intermittently to return fire in these realistic combat scenarios a high accuracy weapons is best, and the Ar-15 is best at precision.

Alright if you are just firing at someone in the plain open field no cover, no concealment (not really a combat scenario more like fictitious) then an Ak-47 will do the job. But it's going to be more difficult trying to shoot a part of the human body behind cover and that is only exposed like a head or arm that too with return fire coming your way, you aren't always going to have time to set up your shot, but having a more accurate weapon system betters your chances that when you do fire multiple shots
you have greater chance of hitting that small exposed body part or area.

Look at Afghanistan combat scenarios, US soldiers often will take fire and get behind a mud wall or some structure for cover the Taliban fighter typically shoots beyond 100 yards sometimes 200 yards they also typically use Ak-47 and as you know the Taliban are generally experienced with the AK-47 but they have a lot of trouble hitting a US soldier behind cover part of the reason is there weapon isn't effectively accurate at hitting a small exposed area like a helmet or arm. In order to compensate for their lack of accuracy they tend to get closer before firing or just spray in the general direction (which expose your position often).

Read, Human size target at 300 yards, zeroed at 100 yards, by the way my AK does 1.5 inch groups all day long at 100 yards. Anyways I think this argument is futile, as your definition of reliability is "unique"... thus I might as well concede on this....Having shot FA Cugir AKM, ACR, AR15, PTR91 (G3), and FAL Imbel, I have found AKM to be most reliable and robust system of the lot, that is my personal experience.

 

[fallstuff]

You'd have to dodge chittars matrix style. i once jokingly said mom im gonna marry a gori, shit got real son. Boys in our family dont have a choice but arranged marriage

But look up SR-25 Carbine, instant BONER!

 

[Informant]

The prices on ACOG's are atrocious man, wtf! I nearly had a heart attack!

 

[fallstuff]

The prices on ACOG's are atrocious man, wtf! I nearly had a heart attack!

M&P 15 Sport Retails between $629-$899. M&P 15 maybe a bit more. But these ARs just so fun to shoot. Better yet you can shoot long distance effectively up-to 400-450 yards, of that you should be able to hit targets at 200 yards with just iron sights.

AR is not fun unless you are in a outdoor shooting range !!!

As far as the scopes go people spend ridiculous amount of money to dress up their toys. IMHO the nikon scopes for AR starting at about $200 is just perfect.

 

[A1Kaid]

The prices on ACOG's are atrocious man, wtf! I nearly had a heart attack!

Yeah the Trijicon ACOG's are very expensive but take a look at Aimpoint, EOTECH, Vortex, Burris, they do make solid optics.

 

[Informant]

Yeah the Trijicon ACOG's are very expensive but take a look at Aimpoint, EOTECH, Vortex, Burris, they do make solid optics.

Im going tooth and nail for an MP5 these, my future MP5-PDW will be the shit, no need for ACOG's. I just sourced my EOTECH holograph for 8k. Dont ask where i got it, Uncle Sam would not like it