COAS Gen Bajwa intends to cut army strength of 5,38,000 substantially over next 5 years

[PanzerKiel]

Na na... The machine gun....View attachment 831473

Thats the only version of this model which we are using, both on tripod and on tanks.

@PanzerKiel
Sir why are there multiple organisations / with regard to para military forces like Rangers, FC etc on land and Coast Guards and Pakistan Maritime Agency on Sea?

Can we not merge multiple Para military forces, preforming almost the same funtions, into a unified National Guard type Command and save money?

They are commanded by serving officers of the armed forces , so it shouldn't be difficult / impossible to convince decision makers ?

Different forces, different doctrines, different chains of commands (MOI / MOD), different type of people working in them, different equipment, different limitations, different areas of operations....

I have seen Army infantry guys with Type 56 and some trijicon sight mounted on may be 2x or 3x at best and carrying LSR sniper rifle in the same squad. They were rehearsing in their area of responsibility. Asked a bit about their equipment. But haven't seen our Army operating ACOG optics that much if any. I am talking about Army not some SSG SF. And I would also like to stress upon to update the education level of our NCOs. They lack in science, tech and language skills a bit. Seems like still living in the 90s. Nowadays NCOs should also be some sort of tech geeks too

Plz enlighten us a bit more about the gear if I misinterpreted or don't know about standard issue and to what extent they are being distributed in the military

Just to mention one, We were using this at squad / section level 12 years ago...

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When i look at the pictures like in a group photo where indian and Pakistani soldiers standing side by side and Indian troops carrying US SIG Sauer Rifles mounted with some decent optics fully kitted with NVGs or perhaps even thermal and our troops carrying type 56 without even a picatinny rail on it. Its really disheartening to look at those pictures. A bit frustrating too. I know it's not the complete representation of all the military but still it hurts to look at.

Thats photo op from their side....doesnt mean their whole force or BSF is equipped like that.

Ukranians employ those HMGs with their special short bipod or something like that I couldn't remember. Integrated a pistol grip to it. I have seen them using thatHMG modified to be equipped with optical sight and could be fired from prone position and it's effective weapon in the war against Russians. Hope you would have seen that too

Tripod stand one is really tall can't be concealed and most probably used from within a bunker.

Tripod gets folded, bringing the whole weapon a few centimeters above ground level.

 

[PanzerKiel]

As Salman Ali says, the weight of 98 kg was reduced to 30 kg, so this makes it portable to be carried for offensive purpose also, especially in mountains.I wanted to know from @PanzerKiel how this has enhanced our punch.

Light weight doesnt mean the weapon has changed, it is the same weapon, same cartridge, same recoil....a lighter weapon will bounce around alot when fired...making it highly inaccurate....

 

[Rafi]

For the last time, infantry will largely stay in tact, cut will be in contract workers replacing support staff, barbers, farm workers etc etc.

The benefits, more choppers, IFV, wheeled APC/IFV, more artillery, GB drones, and much more mechanisation overall. AIR ASSAULT.

 

[blain2]

For the last time, infantry will largely stay in tact, cut will be in contract workers replacing support staff, barbers, farm workers etc etc.

The benefits, more choppers, IFV, wheeled APC/IFV, more artillery, GB drones, and much more mechanisation overall. AIR ASSAULT.

However, none of those cuts help the bottom line as these are not pensioned civilian employees. The real cutbacks will have to come from some combat and support arms. If sufficient troops are available to maintain our defensive and offensive posture, then with the introduction of automation/technology etc. some additional fat can be cut.

 

[Joe Shearer]

What does this imply? "Peace" with India? LOL

It means Mikhail Baryshnikov rather than Gama Pahalwan.

Please define firepower in this scenario
Technologically advanced weaponry?
Strength in numbers?
Or both?

It means first defining your unit of operation - are you planning to operate squads, sections, platoons, companies, battalions......?

It means then working systematically to increase the throw-load of ammunition that unit can fire, the distance for which it can fire, the cycle time for replenishment and the modality for replenishment (there is a gory reverse trail also, but let that be for some other discussion).

 

[Joe Shearer]

If true, then the reason may be (?) :


Bajwa said [he probably had a little slip of tongue in one sentence, but you'll get the point]:


"finally one quick and important lesson, as a military man, that emerges from Russia-Ukraine conflict which must be highlighted over here and that is that it is the preeminence or dominance of fire power over mobility [I think he wanted to say mobility over fire power ? ] as was the case during first war this has given a heart to smaller country that they can still defend their territory with smaller but agile forces against an aggression by a bigger country by carrying out selective modernization in equipment and adopting novel ideas and this is the course we intend following for our future developmental studies"



i.e. Redirect some spending on quality from quantity (?)



Full txt of his speech here:

There is no contradiction.

Throughout history, planners - war-chiefs - have had to balance three factors: mobility, protection and firepower. Protection reduces mobility, so, too, does firepower reduce mobility. These have to be balanced.

Hoplites beat cotton-clothed rivals; the Roman legion, more flexible (=mobile), beat the hoplite, without reducing protection; the Carthaginians beat the legion, several times, due to manoeuvring ability in the battle field (mobility); cataphracts beat the reformed legion (protection + mobility + firepower); the Arabs beat the cataphracts (mobility over protection); you can continue right down to modern times, to the most recent military encounters. This has never changed, it never will.

Should former soldiers move into the Police forces, to raise the standard of the police? The police could form a kind of reserves for the nation, and in fact work to create a defense in depth; a second line of defense similar to Ukrainian troops in urban areas.

A TERRIBLE idea.

 

[Joe Shearer]

7-10 Lakh soldiers could be position on Western front with Pakistan

You can do the numbers based on the number of divisions (39) and their disposition. 9 + 3 eq. are facing north; only 27 are facing west. Does that come to even half of 10 lakhs? Just barely more than half of 7 lakhs.

How will we compete with indian human wave tactics?

What human wave tactics?

How will we compete with indian human wave tactics?

What human wave tactics?

I think you missinterpret what is the meaing of lakh in India. No way India has 12 million soliders, even China has only 2 million

I don't understand.

The chart says clearly, 12 lakh soldiers. That's 12,00,000; in international terms, 1.2 million.

Where is the problem?

 

[Great Janjua]

You can do the numbers based on the number of divisions (39) and their disposition. 9 + 3 eq. are facing north; only 27 are facing west. Does that come to even half of 10 lakhs? Just barely more than half of 7 lakhs.


What human wave tactics?

That is still 700,000 thousand soldiers mostly in Kashmir valley. Again what for? Yet you guys brought more paramilitary troops inside the valley.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Oh come on, don’t give me this india nazi nation going to attack Pakistan stuff. Pakistanis love to either overstate their Importance in the world or are just war-mongering all the time, there’s really never a realistic way of thinking involved, always a ton of conspiracy theories of “everyone is against us”. We’re simply not that important. The world has its own issues to deal with.

I'm in a clinic getting treated for a very minor, very painful injury.

Am I really reading this? Did that idiot orderly overdose me on the local anaesthetic?

You could arm regular/irregular troops with ATGMs in these areas and make it a death trap for any Indian formation.

Also for each other. Cynical and harsh, but think about it.

 

[satyamev]

3-yr ‘Tour of Duty’ for jawans — govt to roll out new recruitment process, not for officers

Tour of Duty, likely to be implemented on trial basis first, aims to reduce burden of pay rises & pensions. Effort also on to make short service commissions more attractive to officers.

theprint.in

"The Department of Military Affairs has finalised a radical proposal for future recruitment to the armed forces. The Army will be the first to try out the concept, which involves recruiting some soldiers for a fixed period of three years."
.Are the 2 armies coordinating troops reduction ?
Good news for the region if true .

 

[Joe Shearer]

Army is also required for COIN operations and ensuring security in the country.

You could learn from the mistakes others have made.

The LAST thing you want your army to do is counter-insurgency.

nice house in DHA ? or open some fancy franchise?

The day Pakistan starts losing quality people will be a very good day for its opponents.

 

[Joe Shearer]

3-yr ‘Tour of Duty’ for jawans — govt to roll out new recruitment process, not for officers

Tour of Duty, likely to be implemented on trial basis first, aims to reduce burden of pay rises & pensions. Effort also on to make short service commissions more attractive to officers.

theprint.in

"The Department of Military Affairs has finalised a radical proposal for future recruitment to the armed forces. The Army will be the first to try out the concept, which involves recruiting some soldiers for a fixed period of three years."
.Are the 2 armies coordinating troops reduction ?
Good news for the region if true .

A thoroughly creepy idea. For reasons that I don't want to go into, in front of Pakistanis.

 

[satyamev]

India cannot keep on spending 70 b usd annually on defense, while the major part of 70 b goes towards salaries and pensions of both armed and civilian employees.
A leaner army with better firepower (one time purchase) is needed.
Defense is a necessary but unproductive activity. You get no returns on purely economic terms.
It can be argued that -
1. provides deterrence from enemy and prevents wars , which could derail the economy badly.
2. Provides steady employment to lakhs and preserves social order by reducing unemployment.

But their is no perfect solution.

 

[Rafi]

However, none of those cuts help the bottom line as these are not pensioned civilian employees. The real cutbacks will have to come from some combat and support arms. If sufficient troops are available to maintain our defensive and offensive posture, then with the introduction of automation/technology etc. some additional fat can be cut.

Exactly that is why I said largely intact, for example a battalion going to air assault will need less overall personnel but more qualified people pilots, engineers etc there is a balance which will have to be calculated

 

[White privilege]

Light weight doesnt mean the weapon has changed, it is the same weapon, same cartridge, same recoil....a lighter weapon will bounce around alot when fired...making it highly inaccurate....

Yeah recoil, mother of all buzz kills.
Ok, which was this gun that outranged Indian guns as told by this Indian general.Can you shed more light on this Kargil before Kargil ??