CM-400AKG: A tough job for the Indian Navy

[Omega007]

reaching with in range of 200-240 k.m. is impossible for jf17

Reaching 200-240 km from the target won't do any good what so ever.Because from 240 km range,in all probability JF 17 will not be able to detect the carrier.
At 180-200 km,it would detect the target but won't get a missile lock.
So in order to get a missile lock,he has to come 130-150 km from the Carrier,which will in all probability become next to suiside for the pilot.

That's why I always say that first read the piece well,then digest it,then absorb it and only after that pass on your thoughts.In real world it doesn't work well the other way round.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

KLJ-7 Radar
The detection range for
targets with a radar cross-section of
3 square meters is stated to be ≥75
km (≥35 km in look-down mode).
Surface sea targets can be detected
at up to 135 km.


KLJ-7 Radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Omega007]

yes it's still in development stage, but rumours are that it's not a cruise missile as it's not powered in the terminal stage and follows a ballistic path but within the atmosphere.Things will become clearer in the future.


http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...carrier-killer-3.html#post3642162#post3642623
see the link

I know that buddy.I don't need to read anything for that,it's all about common sense and simple laws of Physics.Why??Because a 900 kg missile,that follows a level cruising flight path,can never achieve mach 5 speed and 240 km maximum range both at same time!!

 

[Jungibaaz]

Do you even know what are you talking.By all accounts,your so carrier killer is a top attack system.Now what you are suggesting has been tried before by the USA-that firing a missile to a predetermined point,hoping it to aquire its target from that point.Trust me,it didn't work very good.Infact,the results were so dissapointing that they have since discarded the practise.What makes you think that PAF can achieve the same??

True. It isn't a strategy employed by anyone as their primary, and I'm not saying it should be.
I've just said, that it could be a possibility and could be used in case the enemy aircraft guiding the missile is being intercepted or has been intercepted. It is a fire and forget missile in fact, meaning that it does not need guidance from the enemy a/c.
But you and the earlier member have misunderstood what I'm saying, I'm not saying it simply a pot shot to vector towards a last known location. It could rely on it's own INS throughout the flight phase, then use on board radar for terminal. This is just a possibility, it is a fire and forget ASM, hence I assumed it would have such capability. In fact, the Exocet employs similar fire and forget system.

 

[Jungibaaz]

You are forgetting some crucial things here.Firstly,a smaller diameter mechanical radar like KLJ-7 can never pick up a ship at 250 km due to heavy clutter,lesser range for look down mode,period.
180-200 km should be more realistic.But even if you can detect the AC at 180-200km range,you can never get a missile lock at that range,for that you have to come at 120-150 km from your target.At that range,your fighter would be as good as dead.

I never once said the JF-17 in look down mode could lock and launch at even a carrier size target from 200km. I said it could detect at 200km or above, which it certainly can do.
That is absurd. Absurd even if you consider possible upgrades upgrades quoted from articles that suggest upgraded look up capability. However, the only way they achieved that is either greater power output less target resolution and if it's the latter and not the former, we can conclude that the look down capability wont have been improved much at all, possibly slightly worse in that mode since it'd be harder to separate a valid target from the clutter.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

I never once said the JF-17 in look down mode could lock and launch at even a carrier size target from 200km. I said it could detect at 200km or above, which it certainly can do.
That is absurd. Absurd even if you consider possible upgrades upgrades quoted from articles that suggest upgraded look up capability. However, the only way they achieved that is either greater power output less target resolution and if it's the latter and not the former, we can conclude that the look down capability wont have been improved much at all, possibly slightly worse in that mode since it'd be harder to separate a valid target from the clutter.

wiki says it's 135 km detection range for sea based targets.Do you have a source which states better range for sea based targets ?

 

[Omega007]

I never once said the JF-17 in look down mode could lock and launch at even a carrier size target from 200km. I said it could detect at 200km or above, which it certainly can do.
That is absurd. Absurd even if you consider possible upgrades upgrades quoted from articles that suggest upgraded look up capability. However, the only way they achieved that is either greater power output less target resolution and if it's the latter and not the former, we can conclude that the look down capability wont have been improved much at all, possibly slightly worse in that mode since it'd be harder to separate a valid target from the clutter.

Well,looking at the above link posted by AI,now it seems that KLJ 7 can't even detect the AC from 180 km.In fact,it would be lucky to pick up the AC at 150 km at best!!As of now,odds are not looking to be in favor of JF 17-CM 400AKG combo.
Besides,KLJ 7 (just like the Phazotron-Zhuk ME) is a simle monopulse single frequency mechanically steered radar which is much easier to jam these days.

 

[Jungibaaz]

So in order to get a missile lock,he has to come 130-150 km from the Carrier,which will in all probability become next to suiside for the pilot.

That is true for almost all anti-ship/carrier missions or even SEAD missions against a worthy enemy.

 

[SPFG]

I never once said the JF-17 in look down mode could lock and launch at even a carrier size target from 200km. I said it could detect at 200km or above, which it certainly can do.
That is absurd. Absurd even if you consider possible upgrades upgrades quoted from articles that suggest upgraded look up capability. However, the only way they achieved that is either greater power output less target resolution and if it's the latter and not the former, we can conclude that the look down capability wont have been improved much at all, possibly slightly worse in that mode since it'd be harder to separate a valid target from the clutter.

Ok how will your pidley navy defend against Brahmos I doing Mach 6.5 in hypersonic dive? @ 550km range?

Brahmos achieves Mach 6.5 speed during lab test - Indian Express

 

[Anony]

First two layers are taken care of as missile attains level flight at 50km..and MKI and sams cant reach there.
.

I can completely understand 'OURS IS BETTER PHILOSOPHY' but I don't understand why illogical quotes like the one above.

If Mig 29k fly 300 km away from the carrier, and if this is the place it meets jf-17, how can jf-17 fires missile without having target lock. Jf-17 can detect ships from 135 km and can start tracking it from only 75km or even lesser, taking look down mode into consideration. It is this distance from where jf-17 can fire the missile and it need to keep the target lock atleast till the missile is 15km-20km from the target from where the missile's seeker can carry on.

And if the jf-17 get bursted by flying Migs or anti-aircraft missiles even after it fires the missile and before missile seeker takes on, the missile will be just a flying rocket getting drown in sea, after travelling some distance.

 

[Mujahid Memon]

16 pages of discussion for a ghost missile?

jab jhooti aatmaon aur 100% jhoot dusre janmon par tum log 3 ghante ki film bana sakte ho toh is main konsi bari baat hai

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Ok how will your pidley navy defend against Brahmos I doing Mach 6.5 in hypersonic dive? @ 550km range?

Brahmos achieves Mach 6.5 speed during lab test - Indian Express

it's about brahmose 2 so too early to talk about, range also can't go beyond 300km(officially ) because of international laws.

 

[SPFG]

jab jhooti aatmaon aur 100% jhoot dusre janmon par tum log 3 ghante ki film bana sakte ho toh is main konsi bari baat hai

You guys troll but troll in style. We'll give you that come around to Delhi a beer awaits at 7 Degrees Brauhaus for you.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Ok how will your pidley navy defend against Brahmos I doing Mach 6.5 in hypersonic dive? @ 550km range?

Brahmos achieves Mach 6.5 speed during lab test - Indian Express

It's a tough job, but PN will have to find some way to counter> They will attempt to cross the hurdle when it comes.
And we will get know when they want us to know.

Ours is to wonder why. Besides, you're off topic.

You guys troll but troll in style. We'll give you that come around to Delhi a beer awaits at 7 Degrees Brauhaus for you.

You are the one who posted off topic troll post.
Very ignorant of you, can you not read the title of this thread?

 

[SPFG]

it's about brahmose 2 so too early to talk about, range also can't go beyond 300km(officially ) because of international laws.

Babaji jab yeh dhonge marte about a non existent missile mein toh practical hi baat kar raha hoon na?

BTW I didn't involve Shaurya in this which does 7.5 mach.

It's a tough job, but PN will have to find some way to counter> They will attempt to cross the hurdle when it comes.
And we will get know when they want us to know.

Ours is to wonder why. Besides, you're off topic.

You think wer'e discussing the topic like gentlemen or drunks at a 0 star dhaba?