Christians are targeted in India

[Dragon Ball]

Yes, I take my oldest source to happaran times, which predated the Vedic era

Nope, it does not predate the vedic era.

Anyways to make your previous argument fallacious, all Buddhist scriptures, which predate British, already confirm schism between Hinduism and Buddhism at the time of inception, Islam and British came much later into the picture.

Nope, they do not.

There is no historical RECORD of ram, shiva, Jesus, prophet Mohammed, Buddha, Moses etc. Please laugh me out if possible, let's see who has the last laugh regarding this subject.

Buddha is a historic figure so is Prophet Mohammed. There is enough literary evidence to go by as well as markers of their history.

Regarding guru's, compare Buddhism's followers, and any guru of your own choosing, are you joking or are you serious?

I am serious. So even today if you want to see gurus have tens to hundreds of millions of followers though as of yet they have not claimed to have discovered a different religion, but neither did Buddha.

Regarding rich Muslims, you betrayed your mindset already, by mentioning Muslims whereas I only mentioned religious denominations.

It does not matter that you only mentioned religious denominations because Islam was a topic of debate in this discussion. So I betrayed nothing that was not known or stated earlier on.

Difference between you and me. We would both consider ourselves patriotic. But I would love every Muslim, Sikh, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist as long as he held allegiance to the Indian state.

This is the kind of nonsense I get tired of hearing from Wooly headed marxist. Who says I wont love every Muslim, Sikh, Christian, Hindu, or Buddhist as long as they hold allegiance to the Indian state? Indian state is made up of its people, so if they claim to hold allegiance to the state but try to change the character of the state by destroying its very culture, its identity, its traditions, then it will be tough love on my part.

You on the other hand, would only love those who hold allegiance to Hindu nation. I think my brand of patriots easily outnumbers yours.

I doubt that.

 

[ManavKalia]

Nope, it does not predate the vedic era.

Nope, they do not.



Buddha is a historic figure so is Prophet Mohammed. There is enough literary evidence to go by as well as markers of their history.



I am serious. So even today if you want to see gurus have tens to hundreds of millions of followers though as of yet they have not claimed to have discovered a different religion, but neither did Buddha.


It does not matter that you only mentioned religious denominations because Islam was a topic of debate in this discussion. So I betrayed nothing that was not known or stated earlier on.




This is the kind of nonsense I get tired of hearing from Wooly headed marxist. Who says I wont love every Muslim, Sikh, Christian, Hindu, or Buddhist as long as they hold allegiance to the Indian state? Indian state is made up of its people, so if they claim to hold allegiance to the state but try to change the character of the state by destroying its very culture, its identity, its traditions, then it will be tough love on my part.


I doubt that.

Any historic claim that Vedic era predates harappan era apart from wishful thinking?

Any reference to any of these, Christ, Mohammed, shiva, ram, Buddha having any historical record? You would get a Nobel prize if you can do so..

Buddha claimed a different religion, and that's why Buddhist's don't identify themselves as Hindu. Any guru having that many followers?

Rest of the chickenshyte allegiance to my nation bs, via Marxist allegations, my phone number is +91-8826368867, I'm not scared of anything as long as my heart is committed to the truth..

 

[Dragon Ball]

Any historic claim that Vedic era predates harappan era apart from wishful thinking?

The artifacts found on harappan site, the meditating Rudra in yogic pose, the lingams.

Any reference to any of these, Christ, Mohammed, shiva, ram, Buddha having achy historical record? You would get a Nobel prize if you can do so..

I do not know about Christ and obviously Ram and Shiva are too far back in antiquity to get their historical evidences, so I would leave them as mythological figures. Mohammed and Buddha though have ample evidence and are close enough in timeline to have enough evidences to back their claim of being. The Buddhists kept good accounts of their history. The Tripitaka, an unbroken record of His 45 years of Teaching is more than sufficient to prove that the Buddha really lived in the world. Likewise for Mohammed, there are enough historical witness and events to his having been there.

Buddha claimed a different religion, and that's why Buddhist's don't identify themselves as Hindu.

Please. There should be a limit to the amount of fibbing one can do. Buddha never claimed a different religion. Buddhist identify themselves with Buddha because they are his followers. They do not define themselves on the basis of rejection of Hinduism. Their identity is not based on a negative correlation.

Rest of the chickenshyte allegiance to my nation bs, via Marxist allegations, my phone number is +91-8826368867, I'm not scared of anything as long as my heart is committed to the truth..

Do not get hyper. We are just on PDF for godsake. What even is the meaning of handing out your phone number, as if I am going to waste my time bothering with you outside PDF.

 

[ManavKalia]

The artifacts found on harappan site, the meditating Rudra in yogic pose, the lingams.



I do not know about Christ and obviously Ram and Shiva are too far back in antiquity to get their historical evidences, so I would leave them as mythological figures. Mohammed and Buddha though have ample evidence and are close enough in timeline to have enough evidences to back their claim of being. The Buddhists kept good accounts of their history. The Tripitaka, an unbroken record of His 45 years of Teaching is more than sufficient to prove that the Buddha really lived in the world. Likewise for Mohammed, there are enough historical witness and events to his having been there.


Please. There should be a limit to the amount of fibbing one can do. Buddha never claimed a different religion. Buddhist identify themselves with Buddha because they are his followers. They do not define themselves on the basis of rejection of Hinduism. Their identity is not based on a negative correlation.

Do not get hyper. We are just on PDF for godsake. What even is the meaning of handing out your phone number, as if I am going to waste my time bothering with you outside PDF.

What you're rethinking as rudra, is classified as proto shiva..

You're breaking the historical timeline on this: Mohammed and Buddha have historical records whereas Christ doesn't have..

Buddy all three don't have any historical records, they are consigned to mythology..

Buddhism has as many followers as Hinduism globally, still it's fibbing?

Regarding the number I'm hyper sensitive, anyone questioning my loyalty to the Indian union..

 

[Dragon Ball]

What you're rethinking as rudra, is classified as proto shiva.

Rudra is the name for Shiva. It is not some other god as you claimed. Pashupathi is Shiva, the lord of animals and that is how Rudra is potrayed as in that Harappan relic.

You're breaking the historical timeline on this: Mohammed and Buddha have historical records whereas Christ doesn't have..

Buddha's lifetime was well documented by his disciples during his lifetime. Including his body relic which were buried in 8 pagodas around India. Same with Prophet Mohammed. In fact it is not even funny debating Mohammad's life's authenticity. Christ though does not have anything similar in record keeping from his followers. The first Bible being compiled after some 50 odd years of his death and there being no established blood line to prove his existence unlike Mohammad or the Buddha.

Buddy all three don't have any historical records, they are consigned to mythology..

Buddhism has as many followers as Hinduism globally, still it's fibbing?

They are not mythology. They are historic figures.

Buddhism does not have as many followers as Hinduism has globally, Hinduism being the 3rd largest religion. Buddhism is classified as a different religion due to the ignorance of the West, not because Buddha said so.

Regarding the number I'm hyper sensitive, anyone questioning my loyalty to the Indian union..

Who questioned your loyalty to the Indian union? You seem to be hopping all over the place without a need to do so.

 

[kakathiya]

Christians are targeted in India

By Kul B. Rai

Christianity, the second oldest religion in India, has been practiced there since the first century. A small minority with less than 2.5 percent of India's population of more than 1.2 billion and with little economic or political power, Christians long have been tolerated by the dominant Hindus who constitute 80 percent of the population.

Since last May, however, when Bharatiya Janata Party, commonly known by its acronym BJP, won the parliamentary election, Christians have felt persecuted by the militant Hindus. Prime Minister Narendra Modi, leader of BJP, unfortunately has been ambivalent.

Modi has a record of bringing prosperity to the people of the Indian state of Gujarat, where he was the chief minister for more than 10 years.

He advocated encouraging private investment and simplified tax policy, and remains popular because he has delivered on his campaign promise of improving economic growth rate in India. The World Bank recently predicted India will replace China in two years as the fastest-growing economy of the world.

The popularity of Modi has emboldened his supporters to attempt to realize their dream of making India a Hindu country. They have beaten Christians, burned churches, and attempted to convert Christians to Hinduism by coercion and promise of monetary rewards.

Some members of Modi's government have made outrageous statements. One minister suggested that for the sake of national identity, all Indians should be called Hindus.

Another said all non-Hindus should be considered illegitimate. Modi has done little to reassure the religious minorities such statements are unacceptable in the secular society India claims to be.

In the past, the Hindu wrath was primarily directed against Muslims, who are 14 percent of India's population. Christians, however, are an easy target, since they are a much smaller and less organized minority.

Hindu resentment against Christians is not new and is chiefly based on the Hindu opposition to conversion of Hindus to Christianity.

In the past, such resentment seldom erupted in violence. Modi's government has ushered in an unfortunate era in India.

In 1998, when BJP came to power as the head of a coalition government, Christians were targeted by militant Hindus. However, the leader of the BJP at that time, Atal Bihari Vajpayee, was considered moderate in his views on religion. The violence against Christians, while ugly for some time, subsided.

Modi is very different from Vajpayee. He built his political career on the basis of his work in Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, called RSS, a militant Hindu organization. Most of its members do not believe in a secular society.

Fortunately, the news media and many Hindus have strongly reacted against the treatment of Christians. As a result, Modi finally took some action. He met with Delhi's police commissioner in the middle of February, and urged him to arrest those responsible for violence against the Christians.

Modi clearly has been ambivalent on the issue of persecution of Christians. It is difficult to predict when Christians will feel safe again in India.

Kul B. Rai, Ph.D., is a professor emeritus of political science at Southern Connecticut State University.

Christians are targeted in India Republican American

HINDUS WERE TARGETED BY CHRISTIANS FROM 17TH CENTURY TILL DATE AND ARE STILL TARGETING POOR HINDUS, THOSE HYPOCRITE MISSIONARY SCUM,

 

[ManavKalia]

Rudra is the name for Shiva. It is not some other god as you claimed. Pashupathi is Shiva, the lord of animals and that is how Rudra is potrayed as in that Harappan relic.


Buddha's lifetime was well documented by his disciples during his lifetime. Including his body relic which were buried in 8 pagodas around India. Same with Prophet Mohammed. In fact it is not even funny debating Mohammad's life's authenticity. Christ though does not have anything similar in record keeping from his followers. The first Bible being compiled after some 50 odd years of his death and there being no established blood line to prove his existence unlike Mohammad or the Buddha.



They are not mythology. They are historic figures.

Buddhism does not have as many followers as Hinduism has globally, Hinduism being the 3rd largest religion. Buddhism is classified as a different religion due to the ignorance of the West, not because Buddha said so.



Who questioned your loyalty to the Indian union? You seem to be hopping all over the place without a need to do so.

Do you even have any idea which harappan relic is known as proto shiva? What rubbish are you speaking buddy. Next you'll tell me you've deciphered Indus script, and rudra was written on the relic.

Give any examples of Mohammed's or Buddha's historical proof if you can please. Did you read anything like this in any textbook? This is fast getting laughable.

Pahsupati is shiva's name in Nepal, not rudra.

Hinduism is number three, and Buddhism number four, only if you don't count a large number of Chinese Buddhists, as they are not classified as conventional Buddhists, due to their influence of other faiths. If they are included, then Buddhism is number three and Hinduism number four. Anyways exact number of followers doesn't matter, point was both religions have similar substantial number of followers globally. If you consider number of followers as measure of quality, then Christianity and Islam would be far better than Hinduism, as they have lot more followers.

Buddhism same as Hinduism, is same as saying Sikhism same as Hinduism, as Sikh scriptures also reference Hindu deities like Buddhism. Find me any Buddhist or Sikh who says his religion is the same as Hinduism if you can. Your concepts are seriously amusing. Next you'll say Islam is same as Christianity as they both reference Abraham.. LOL

I consider Marxism an affront to loyalty to Indian democratic union, and by your writing you appear to be some Hinduvta organisation member, and in my experience all Hinduvta members use the muscle of their organisation to threaten opposition. They are basically funny idiots and cowards, and I've made many cry in past in my interaction with them. So the number was for you give to any organisation you represent, Hinduvta or otherwise, as I and my friends love making Hinduvta idiots cry..

 

[Dragon Ball]

Do you even have any idea which harappan relic is known as proto shiva? What rubbish are you speaking buddy. Next you'll tell me you've deciphered Indus script, and rudra was written on the relic.

Do you know the meaning of the word proto? It means original or the earliest. Which means it is the earliest known dipiction of Shiva. The same god with hundreds of name. So if Shiva is called Pashupatinath in Nepal, does that name become invalid in India?

I doubt you are a Hindu or were born in a Hindu family. You seem to have no grasp of how Hinduism or Hindu gods are handled.

Hinduism is number three, and Buddhism number four, only if you don't count a large number of Chinese Buddhists, as they are not classified as conventional Buddhists, due to their influence of other faiths. If they are included, then Buddhism is number three and Hinduism number four. Anyways exact number of followers doesn't matter, point was both religions have similar substantial number of followers globally. If you consider number of followers as measure of quality, then Christianity and Islam would be far better than Hinduism, as they have lot more followers.

What was the point here? You wanted to differentiate Buddhism from Hinduism because of the number of followers it had, which is hardly logical. There is hardly any differentiation between Buddhism and Hinduism theoretically and in live practice either. It not a question of superiority or inferiority, so pointing out the numbers were pointless. Even then, all Chinese cannot be counted as Buddhist because a large section of them do not identify themselves as Buddhists. I have no idea if you even know what you are debating about when you suddenly bring in Islam and Christianity's numbers.

Buddhism same as Hinduism, is same as saying Sikhism same as Hinduism, as Sikh scriptures also reference Hindu deities like Buddhism. Find me any Buddhist or Sikh who says his religion is the same as Hinduism if you can. Your concepts are seriously amusing. Next you'll say Islam is same as Christianity as they both reference Abraham.. LOL

Buddhism is same as Hinduism, go and ask a Nepali who practices both together. There are plenty of Sikhs who will tell you their religion is same as Hinduism including the late Kushwant Singh.

I consider Marxism an affront to loyalty to Indian democratic union, and by your writing you appear to be some Hinduvta organisation member, and in my experience all Hinduvta members use the muscle of their organisation to threaten opposition. They are basically funny idiots and cowards, and I've made many cry in past in my interaction with them. So the number was for you give to any organisation you represent, Hinduvta or otherwise, as I and my friends love making Hinduvta idiots cry..

Funny, considering it is the seculars and marxist who are involved in 100% of political killings in India. So much for the threat of Hindu organization.

I am done debating with an idiot. You can have the last word and rant for all I care.

 

[magudi]

Christian persecution: fact or fiction?

 

[ManavKalia]

Do you know the meaning of the word proto? It means original or the earliest. Which means it is the earliest known dipiction of Shiva. The same god with hundreds of name. So if Shiva is called Pashupatinath in Nepal, does that name become invalid in India?

I doubt you are a Hindu or were born in a Hindu family. You seem to have no grasp of how Hinduism or Hindu gods are handled.


What was the point here? You wanted to differentiate Buddhism from Hinduism because of the number of followers it had, which is hardly logical. There is hardly any differentiation between Buddhism and Hinduism theoretically and in live practice either. It not a question of superiority or inferiority, so pointing out the numbers were pointless. Even then, all Chinese cannot be counted as Buddhist because a large section of them do not identify themselves as Buddhists. I have no idea if you even know what you are debating about when you suddenly bring in Islam and Christianity's numbers.



Buddhism is same as Hinduism, go and ask a Nepali who practices both together. There are plenty of Sikhs who will tell you their religion is same as Hinduism including the late Kushwant Singh.



Funny, considering it is the seculars and marxist who are involved in 100% of political killings in India. So much for the threat of Hindu organization.

I am done debating with an idiot. You can have the last word and rant for all I care.

Shiva - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Seal discovered during excavation of the Indus Valley archaeological site in the Indus Valley has drawn attention as a possible representation of a "yogi" or "proto-Shiva" figure.

It is not certain, as the Indus script has not been deciphered.

Many Indus valley seals show animals but one seal that has attracted attention shows a figure, either horned or wearing a horned headdress and possibly ithyphallic[47][48][49] figure seated in a posture reminiscent of the Lotus position and surrounded by animals was named by early excavators of Mohenjo-daro Pashupati (lord of cattle), an epithet of the later Hindu gods Shiva and Rudra.[47][50][51][52] Sir John Marshall and others have claimed that this figure is a prototype of Shiva and have described the figure as having three faces seated in a "yoga posture" with the knees out and feet joined.

While some academics like Gavin Flood[53][54] and John Keay have expressed doubts. John Keay writes that "He may indeed be an early manifestation of Lord Shiva as Pashu- pati", but a couple of his specialties of this figure does not match with Rudra.[55] Writing in 1997 Doris Srinivasan rejected Marshall's package of proto-Siva features, including that of three heads. She interprets what John Marshall interpreted as facial as not human but more bovine, possibly a divine buffalo-man.[56] According to Iravatham Mahadevan symbols 47 and 48 of his Indus script glossary The Indus Script: Texts, Concordance and Tables (1977), representing seated human-like figures, could describe Hindu deity Murugan, popularly known as Shiva and Parvati's son.[57]

Writing in 2002, Gregory L. Possehl concluded that while it would be appropriate to recognize the figure as a deity, its association with the water buffalo, and its posture as one of ritual discipline.[58]



Shiva as we know him today shares many features with the Vedic god Rudra,[60] and both Shiva and Rudra are viewed as the same personality in Hindu scriptures. The two names are used synonymously. Rudra, the god of the roaring storm, is usually portrayed in accordance with the element he represents as a fierce, destructive deity.

The identification of Shiva with the older god Rudhra is not universally accepted, as Axel Michaels explains:

Rudra is called "The Archer" (Sanskrit: Śarva),[63] and the arrow is an essential attribute of Rudra.[64] This name appears in the Shiva Sahasranama, and R. K. Sharma notes that it is used as a name of Shiva often in later languages.[65]

The word is derived from the Sanskrit root śarv-, which means "to injure" or "to kill",[66] and Sharma uses that general sense in his interpretive translation of the name Śarva as "One who can kill the forces of darkness".[65] The names Dhanvin ("Bowman")[67] and Bāṇahasta ("Archer", literally "Armed with arrows in his hands")[67][68] also refer to archery.




The above clearly shows how much you know about Hinduism and Vedas.

This is a facet common to Hinduvta idiots, which is total ignorance regarding Hinduism itself, having gleaned knowledge from Hindutva textbooks, and makes it wholly unnecessary to respond to your other comments including your understanding about secularism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Christianity, Islam etc having exposed your total ignorance about Hinduism and Vedas..

 

[Ammyy]

All christian missionary in india should be banned

 

[Dragon Ball]

All christian missionary in india should be banned

Ammyy, are you related to @holysaturn and @Acid .

 

[Ammyy]

Ammyy, are you related to @holysaturn and @Acid .

no buddy

 

[holysaturn]

All christian missionary in india should be banned

They should not be banned untill they are proven to be extremist and violent ,it just goes against the freedom of religion, but their funding should be monitored and held accountable, forced conversion banned. It is for the sane people in the Christian community to get educated(not only academically but also logically) and reject the fallacies spread by some of these missionaries in the name of religion and speak out against them instead of blindly supporting them despite their nonsense .