Chinese officials warned US bomber during 'routine' East China Sea flyover

[Star Expedition]

America is going to break apart from inside. But they are still busy outside.

 

[gambit]

...you have nothing more to back it up than your classic "experts agree with me" phrase..

Actually, it is the other way around -- that I agree with the experts. The 'experts agree with me' implies I am the authority. You do not need to be a STEM grad or engage in mental gymnastics to see the difference. We all agree with experts outside of our own areas of expertise.

It is incredible for a STEM grad to believe that if I buy a piece of hardware from a vendor I would not inquire of that vendor on its usage and tactical situations to my advantage. Advantest or Tokyo Electron Limited (TEL) sells to anyone even when all parties compete against each other. Within each contract that includes not only equipment and long term support, each company signs NDA regarding what their people sees and ADVISES the buyers on how to use the hardware.

It is incredible even for a freshly minted second lieutenant, to believe that Saddam Hussein called China asking to buy military hardware and asked NOTHING of China no questions on how to use them in battles against potential adversaries. Am willing to bet that not even a second louie from the PLA is that gullible.

No, it does not take any mental gymnastics, not even a simple virtual somersault, to conclude that such advisement took place. It takes common sense, especially the kind that is supported by experience. China sold arms to the NVA but did not advised their soldiers on how to use them. How believable is that ?

The fact that the PLA took drastic reforms of itself is direct evident -- according to the experts that published their opinions for all to see -- that such advisement to Iraq occurred. If you are that confident of the inferiority -- or even mere inadequacy -- of a potential adversary's methods and tactics to defeat you, why would you change yourself to the extent that your forces practically mirrored that of his ?

Not possible till all those container bringing good to sell in USA. Heck, if push comes to shove, US can blockade China herself, stopping any shipment from and to China. That CPEC is too feeble to provide any alternative path since in winter, the entire karakoram pass is closed. If US blockades China during winters, they can throttle China's oil supply with relative ease. Not to mention any exports too.

It really is amazing that the man called the US naval blockade of Cuba -- the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962 -- a 'loser' move.

It was an action that no one expected the Democratic Kennedy would make. But it was eminently logical for the US to do so. Simple -- we could. Not only that, we knew the Soviets did not have the naval capacity to support Cuba the way we could with South Korea or Japan, and with those countries, we could have installed nuclear missiles anytime we wanted. And who is to say we did not ?

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...weapons-stored-okinawa-cold-war/#.WNfasXXyvrE

Long an open secret, the U.S. government has for the first time officially acknowledged that nuclear weapons were stored on Okinawa during the Cold War.

In a statement on the Department of Defense’s Open Government website, the Pentagon revealed Friday “that U.S. nuclear weapons were deployed on Okinawa prior to Okinawa’s reversion to Japan on May 15, 1972.”

Ooopsie daisies...My bad...I guess we did have US nuclear weapons in Japan.

The Chinese here -- along with everyone else -- have always been adamant that the US did have nuclear weapons in Asia. Why did they believe so ? Because geopolitics and common sense says so. After all, Japan was a US puppet and Japan had to do what the US want.

But it is absolutely inconceivable that China would advise Iraq on military matters when Saddam Hussein went weapons shopping.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

What you expect, another Hainan incident v 2.0? it will be interesting to see what is inside of the B1 and use as reference for future China strategic bomber such as EP-3E.

It really is amazing that the man called the US naval blockade of Cuba -- the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962 -- a 'loser' move.

It was an action that no one expected the Democratic Kennedy would make. But it was eminently logical for the US to do so. Simple -- we could. Not only that, we knew the Soviets did not have the naval capacity to support Cuba the way we could with South Korea or Japan, and with those countries, we could have installed nuclear missiles anytime we wanted. And who is to say we did not ?

It's not a loser but worst a bad loser, If US can to set Nukes in Turkey which close to Soviet why it was afraid that other to do the same with Cuba? You can create thousand of excuse but bottom line is that US did not play by the rule, it only want to do to other and expect that other will not do the same to them.

and at the end US backed down and also withdrew their nukes in Turkey.

 

[samsara]

We have unfriendly nations in our backyard so what you expect? same go for India, you guys did not dominate neither your backyards despite the fact your military is much larger scale than your neighbors. You can say the same that China don't have jungle or mountainous warfare experience as during Vietnam and Korea war...experience don't fall from sky, it was said battlefield made great solder so it was a good experience for Chinese military advisers but China chose to concentrate on the economy instead of pissing US off in Irak.

Agree with above. But more importantly are longer-term objectives! By longer I mean a decade or two or three... not a century long

China has been responding in the right track in dealing with the so many US provocations around its backyards all these years. All the development China has been doing these few decades both in civilian and military fields clearly show the right choices.... such development simply makes China stronger, bigger and more advanced over time. The same cannot be said about the USA choices; instead the reverse is true... real life keeps on deteriorating over there, economy is getting worse, financial bleeding is getting bigger and bigger, even social fabric starts to reveal its dire wound and true face...

PATIENCE is the key word. Responding to provocations wisely. Some party in the Deep State there may intentionally provoke for hot conflict to cover its failures in economy and the worsening lives of people there... there will be the right time to hit back at full force if necessary (though I hope it will never be needed!)... but most likely the chest-thumping party will be self-defeating over time... a kind of self-implosion....

So in the meantime the USA keeps on doing the show-off and chest-thumping actions, China just needs to respond with self-refrain... for the time being... while keep on developing(!) and REMEMBER, these kinds of outright provocations, showing off forces and chest thumping actions by the USA is not only being done against China, it's also carried out against the Russian Federation in European Theater! And Russia is also well-behaved in refraining its response.

Thanks for that wisdom, patience and self-refrain.
For the other choice is the earth may be torn apart in pieces due to nuke exchanges!

It may be pretty hard for some here, esp. some particular Indian members to ever think in a longer time span and bigger perspective. But no wonder!

Need to learn from the Roman Empire as well as the more recent one, the British Empire.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"In the last five or six thousand years, empires one after another have arisen, waxed powerful by wars of conquest, and fallen by internal revolution or attack from without." - John Boyd Orr

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Agree with above. But more importantly are longer-term objectives! By longer I mean a decade or two or three... not a century long

China has been responding in the right track in dealing with the so many US provocations around its backyards all these years. All the development China has been doing these few decades both in civilian and military fields clearly show the right choices.... such development simply makes China stronger, bigger and more advanced over time. The same cannot be said about the USA choices; instead the reverse is true... real life keeps on deteriorating over there, economy is getting worse, financial bleeding is getting bigger and bigger, even social fabric starts to reveal its dire wound and true face...

PATIENCE is the key word. Responding to provocations wisely. Some party in the Deep State there may intentionally provoke for hot conflict to cover its failures in economy and the worsening lives of people there... there will be the right time to hit back at full force if necessary (though I hope it will never be needed!)... but most likely the chest-thumping party will be self-defeating over time... a kind of self-implosion....

So in the meantime the USA keeps on doing the show-off and chest-thumping actions, China just needs to respond with self-refrain... for the time being... while keep on developing(!) and REMEMBER, these kinds of outright provocations, showing off forces and chest thumping actions by the USA is not only being done against China, it's also carried out against the Russian Federation in European Theater! And Russia is also well-behaved in refraining its response.

Thanks for that wisdom, patience and self-refrain.
For the other choice is the earth may be torn apart in pieces due to nuke exchanges!

It may be pretty hard for some here, esp. some particular Indian members to ever think in a longer time span and bigger perspective. But no wonder!

Need to learn from the Roman Empire as well as the more recent one, the British Empire.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"In the last five or six thousand years, empires one after another have arisen, waxed powerful by wars of conquest, and fallen by internal revolution or attack from without." - John Boyd Orr

Well said, if you remember during Han dynasty, those Huns always came to make trouble at the frontier all the times similar to what US is doing now, but Han government had wisdom, patience and self-refrain to deal with such foe until Han army was powerful enough to Banish these barbarians from their own homelands once for all.

 

[gambit]

It's not a loser but worst a bad loser, If US can to set Nukes in Turkey which close to Soviet why it was afraid that other to do the same with Cuba? You can create thousand of excuse but bottom line is that US did not play by the rule, it only want to do to other and expect that other will not do the same to them.

and at the End US back down and withdraw also their nukes in Turkey.

The US afraid but not the Soviets ? The fact that the Soviets tried the same via Cuba meant they were afraid. Further, we had nuclear presence in Asia and Europe while the Soviets had nothing similar in the Americas. So in the end, despite the withdrawal of those missiles in Turkey, we still came out in the better position.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

The US afraid but not the Soviets ? The fact that the Soviets tried the same via Cuba meant they were afraid. Further, we had nuclear presence in Asia and Europe while the Soviets had nothing similar in the Americas. So in the end, despite the withdrawal of those missiles in Turkey, we still came out in the better position.

Man don't try to skate, instead of explaining why US is afraid of Soviet nuke in Cuba, you turn around and sneakily say that Soviet is scared so they want to place nuke in Cuba ... If US is not the bad loser, it could show itself man enough to let Soviet to stationed Nuke in Cuba... but as I said before US just want to set rule that is advantageous to them but prevent others to do the same, this is like a poker game, US just want to set rule that itself can be the only winner... so it is not wrong to call US a bad loser.

 

[gambit]

Man don't try to skate, instead of explain what US is afraid of Soviet nuke in Cuba, you turn around and sneakily saying that Soviet is scare so they want to place nuke in Cuba ...if US is not the bad loser, it could show itself man enough to let Soviet to stationed Nuke in Cuba...but as I said before US just want to set rule that is advantageous to them but prevent to do the same, this is like a poker game, US just want to set rule that itself can the only one be the winner...so there is not wrong to call US as bad loser.

Why is China angry about our THAAD in South Korea ? Is China afraid ?

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Why is China angry about our THAAD in South Korea ? Is China afraid ?

Nice try to divert my question about Cuba , so you're now answered the question by yourself: if China do the same to US, the bad loser will react with a war declaration for sure but at least for now China keep cool and try to find peaceful solution.

 

[My-Analogous]

I wonder if this is demoralizing for the Chinese Military personnel.

Chinese air traffic controller: You are illegally operating in Chinese airspace..Leave immediately.

USAF: No we are in international air space, we are not going to leave and there is absolutely nothing that you can do about it, so we suggest you to correct your maps

Yeah same logic with CPEC. Now it is time you to correct your maps

 

[gambit]

Nice try to divert my question about Cuba , so you're now answered the question by yourself: if China do the same to US, the bad loser will react with a war declaration for sure but at least for now China keep cool and try to find peaceful solution.

No diversion. Only a comparison. The fact that China is crying about THAAD in South Korea means China is afraid and is a sore loser. Your logic, pal.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

No diversion. Only a comparison. The fact that China is crying about THAAD in South Korea means China is afraid and is a sore loser. Your logic, pal.

No we're loser just because we protest about THAAD, we're willing to accept to play by the same rule: when we build artificial islands in SCS, we didn't prevent Vietnam to do the same.

 

[samsara]

IF the upcoming new government in the South Korea is not able to retract and rectify all the mistakes done under the impeached President Park Geun-hye regime from the Conservative party Saenuri, then the South Korea is destined to be doomed!

Btw the former ruling party, Saenuri Party was already dissolved due to internal struggle and split, part of it is transformed into the new party: Liberty Korea Party in the early of Feb. 2017.

The people of the South Korea will be bearing the actual costs of this political impropriety... hardly see any proper leader in Seoul post the veterans Kim Dae-jung and Kim Young-sam. The younger generations there don't possess the wisdom of their elders.

 

[Globenim]

It is incredible for a STEM grad to believe that if I buy a piece of hardware from a vendor I would not inquire of that vendor on its usage and tactical situations to my advantage. Advantest or Tokyo Electron Limited (TEL) sells to anyone even when all parties compete against each other. Within each contract that includes not only equipment and long term support, each company signs NDA regarding what their people sees and ADVISES the buyers on how to use the hardware.

It is incredible even for a freshly minted second lieutenant, to believe that Saddam Hussein called China asking to buy military hardware and asked NOTHING of China no questions on how to use them in battles against potential adversaries. Am willing to bet that not even a second louie from the PLA is that gullible.

Your mental gymnastics, jumping from a vague spin that "Iraq had "hired" China" to suggest Chinas modern air defense must or even just could therfore somehow be as terrible as Iraqs because "applied Vietnamese plumber logic", when that relationship boils down to export of mainly old tanks, apcs and artillery with half the types not even in production anymore, amounting only to a quarter of total Russian and half of Europan weapon exports to Iraq within the relevant decade besides politics, to this incredibly pathethic attempt to frame me as denying your unessential points, because you know and as already pointed out its just a silly selfdefeating stretch producing a dillema out of years of U.S Chinese military relations you continue to dodge, after vague anecdotes, empty claims over expert opinions and false sources got easily called out, are truely impressive.

Started with a simpleminded non sequitur you could have ended with a honest "well that was rather dumb and ignorant comment", and now we have a pile of fradulent sourcing, appeals to nameless third party authorities, declaring yourself an authority, ridiculous mental gymnastic and stretches to pin China with responsibilities for Iraq, worthless Gambit opinions about the PLA, worthless vague hints at anecdotes, another non sequitur implying any change in Chinas doctrines proofs anything prior must be universally not space or time bound or otherwise situative simply "worthless" to dilute the argument and an attempt to just force your silly argument into my mouth because I wont go along with your fallacious and dishonest way of argueing and producing missinformation on this forum.

 

[dilpakistani]

ADIZ violation is not airspace violation... No number of B1 or B2 or F-22 bombers can think of doing chienese airspace violation in current era... it would definitely become their nightmare really fast..