Chinese military chief makes first visit to Israel

[ephone]

Your religion will not effect your nationality if you are chinese you will remain chinese, so even if we succeed to convert all people to islam it will be nothing but just change of a religion!!!

Well, religion is just a choice, not born with. Whoever forces their children to abide by their parent's belief are just so pathetic.

In civilized world, people are free to make their own choices.

If your parents are christian or catholic or whatsoever, your children are free to choose whatever their belief they want. It should be without any consequences.

It should be free for people to choose their own religion or leave a religion they have no passion for anymore. Whoever try to intimidate such freedom should be seriously punished.

At least, in China we do have such freedom and I am proud that we do seriously punish any suckers who want to block others' freedom for doing above.

 

[CardSharp]

Well, religion is just a choice, not born with. Whoever forces their children to abide by their parent's belief are just so pathetic.

In civilized world, people are free to make their own choices.

If your parents are christian or catholic or whatsoever, your children are free to choose whatever their belief they want. It should be without any consequences.

It should be free for people to choose their own religion or leave a religion they have no passion for anymore. Whoever try to intimidate such freedom should be seriously punished.

At least, in China we do have such freedom and I am proud that we do seriously punish any suckers who want to block others' freedom for doing above.

You failed to distinguish what is a legal issue of freedom of worship and the informal parental discretion over a child's religious choice.

If there is one Chinese member I could ban for acting like a dick and misrepresenting us as a group, it'd be you.

 

[ephone]

If a retard like you can distinguish a dick from a duck, I am glad to say that you finally have found your religion.

About mispresenting what???

China indeed has her policy to punish anyone who have forced others to convert or un-convert from any religions. What part of my writing is so hard for a retard like you to understand.

Parental discretion over a child's religious choice is fine. However, nobody should use force/threat to intimidate others on those religious issues: convert/un-convert. Any such violence in China will be seriously punished by China laws.

The term "children" I refer to is not who are so young and cannot represent themselves. It is a term vs "parent". If I can be more clear, it should be those who can lawfully vote and represent themselves, e.g. over the age of 18.

My discussion is nothing about just some parental discretion but those illegal activities using forces/threats to intimidate others to convert or not to convert for any religions.

“宪法第三十六条 中华人民共和国公民有宗教信仰自由。

任何国家机关、社会团体和个人不得强制公民信仰宗教或者不信仰宗教，不得歧视信仰宗教的公民和不信仰宗教的公民。

国家保护正常的宗教活动。任何人不得利用宗教进行破坏社会秩序、损害公民身体健康、妨碍国家教育制度的活动。
宗教团体和宗教事务不受外国势力的支配。“

What part of it is so hard for you to interpret???

I do not know what group you are representing. One thing is clear that a dick as you is not China.

You failed to distinguish what is a legal issue of freedom of worship and the informal parental discretion over a child's religious choice.

If there is one Chinese member I could ban for acting like a dick and misrepresenting us as a group, it'd be you.

 

[CardSharp]

Yep, it'd definitely be you. Not the fan boys, not the nationalist morons, not the Hongwu style crazies, you.

 

[below_freezing]

Without USA, we would not have our nuclear weapons, ICBMs, satellites and all kinds of high tech weapons. Look at those scientists who have been the major developers for those area. Where were exactly they trained and who were they trained under???

Russia jump-started China by 50 years? What a joke!!! What do you know about China's military development??? Just from some online forums and hearsay??? No one except russia will give it to us??? You simply have no idea how many diverse ways (countries) China has acquired its technology from.

As what I have said, what a retard.

You think science and technology is driven by 1 person? You think for a huge project like an ICBM, or a nuke, that ONE person can solve the problems? give me a break. India and Pakistan both have more Nobel laureates in nuclear physics than China, yet are their atomic arsenals superior? Does India have superior technology to China? India has Nobel laureates in Medicine, is their biotech superior to China's?

I worked on large projects like this. One person can only solve one tiny piece of the puzzle; even the overall design is the work of numerous scientists. This isn't like building a bike model, this is for large scale manufacturing. Every part's supply chain has to be made. You think that Qian was not only a master at aerospace engineering, but also radiation physics, SixSigma, uranium processing or machine tool manufacturing? No way. He might have designed the overall shape of the ICBM. But so could MANY OTHERS if given the chance; he was just given the chance because it was safer to give it to a known PhD in AE, than to an unknown new graduate. The main problem comes during component manufacturing. China doesn't lack systems designers. China has the best systems designers in the world whose ideas all stay on paper because we don't have the component manufacturing down.

Without the training of ordinary technicians, and the exposure to modern manufacturing techniques by Russia, you think 1 or 2 "great minds" can pull a nation like China out of poverty?

US gave us? No, they gave themselves. They gambled on an asset, and they lost the gamble. They did not tell Qian, go back to China to help Chinese build an ICBM.

 

[CardSharp]

US gave us? No, they gave themselves. They gambled on an asset, and they lost the gamble. They did not tell Qian, go back to China to help Chinese build an ICBM.

Also to reinforce your point, Qian while a brilliant physicist and a propaganda coup for the CCP, arguable gets more credit than he deserves for China's space/missile program.

The countless unnamed and unknown scientists in China deserve 99% of credit China's technological progress.

 

[ephone]

At least, I do not think science and technology are driven by the mass fervor like culture revolution, or 亩产万斤。

Without those brilliant minds, science and technology would have taken so many unknown years for development. BTW, nobody say it is one person's effort. It is joint effort by those brilliant minds, where majority of them were trained in the west.

You can put 100 million peasants or ordinary technicians there for 100 years, they will still not develop you a nuke. In addition, nobody here compare nobel price winners. So do not sidetrack the topic here. I simply indicate the fact that most of those who are responsible for China's nukes, ICBM, satellites and high tech weapons were trained in the west. It is true then and it remains true even today.

You think science and technology is driven by 1 person? You think for a huge project like an ICBM, or a nuke, that ONE person can solve the problems? give me a break. India and Pakistan both have more Nobel laureates in nuclear physics than China, yet are their atomic arsenals superior? Does India have superior technology to China? India has Nobel laureates in Medicine, is their biotech superior to China's?

I worked on large projects like this. One person can only solve one tiny piece of the puzzle; even the overall design is the work of numerous scientists. This isn't like building a bike model, this is for large scale manufacturing. Every part's supply chain has to be made. You think that Qian was not only a master at aerospace engineering, but also radiation physics, SixSigma, uranium processing or machine tool manufacturing? No way. He might have designed the overall shape of the ICBM. But so could MANY OTHERS if given the chance; he was just given the chance because it was safer to give it to a known PhD in AE, than to an unknown new graduate. The main problem comes during component manufacturing. China doesn't lack systems designers. China has the best systems designers in the world whose ideas all stay on paper because we don't have the component manufacturing down.

Without the training of ordinary technicians, and the exposure to modern manufacturing techniques by Russia, you think 1 or 2 "great minds" can pull a nation like China out of poverty?

US gave us? No, they gave themselves. They gambled on an asset, and they lost the gamble. They did not tell Qian, go back to China to help Chinese build an ICBM.

---------- Post added at 11:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 AM ----------

Yep, it'd definitely be you. Not the fan boys, not the nationalist morons, not the Hongwu style crazies, you.

You mean, you are the dick-man as well as that anti-Semitic bxx-freezing.

What a shame. We China historically have never had any anti-Semitic campaign. Now I have to apologize to Jewish people that unfortunately we do have some idiots here who are just so retard beyond imagination and think Israel is China enemy No. 1, way surpass those horrible atrocities russia and japan have ever committed, even though the rape of nanking was only about 74 years ago and only a little over 30 years for the zhenbao island incident.

 

[below_freezing]

At least, I do not think science and technology are driven by the mass fervor like culture revolution, or 亩产万斤。

Without those brilliant minds, science and technology would have taken so many unknown years for development. BTW, nobody say it is one person's effort. It is joint effort by those brilliant minds, where majority of them were trained in the west.

You can put 100 million peasants or ordinary technicians there for 100 years, they will still not develop you a nuke. In addition, nobody here compare nobel price winners. So do not sidetrack the topic here. I simply indicate the fact that most of those who are responsible for China's nukes, ICBM, satellites and high tech weapons were trained in the west. It is true then and it remains true even today.



---------- Post added at 11:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 AM ----------



You mean, you are the dick-man as well as that anti-Semitic bxx-freezing.

What a shame. We China historically have never had any anti-Semitic campaign. Now I have to apologize to Jewish people that unfortunately we do have some idiots here who are just so retard beyond imagination and think Israel is China enemy No. 1, way surpass those horrible atrocities russia and japan have ever committed, even though the rape of nanking was only about 74 years ago and only a little over 30 years for the zhenbao island incident.

Mass movement? Definitely not. Not everyone has the ability to contribute to science because they lack the basic training. A collective effort of all engineers and scientists in the project? Yes. I don't think you know how science is done in industry or even academia today. Cardsharp and I have both conducted research in both academic and industrial settings. We know how it is done. The bulk of the work is done by BS/MS level engineers and technicians, including design work. The PhDs set the general direction but several experienced BS/MS engineers and technicians can replace them.

The number of engineers and scientists in a society is directly proportional to its technological ability.

Why did I mention Nobels? Because that is taking your idea, that science and technology is driven by "Great men" and no one else matters, to the extreme. The logic goes, if Nobels, the highest prize in science, are great men of science, and that progress is driven by great men, the technological ability of any society should be directly proportional to the number of Nobel Prizes its members have recieved.

South Korea and China both have zero Nobel Prizes. Kenya and India have more Nobel Prizes than China and South Korea. Yet are Kenya and India scientific superpowers, and South Korea and China weak loser nations?

Also its laughable to say that "even today" they're trained in the West. Song Wencong, Xue Chishou, designers of the J-10, don't even know English. Even during the 50's, Qian was the DIRECTOR of the ICBM project, not necessarily its CHIEF DESIGNER. Big difference for anyone that's worked on a technical project. Director is a management position, chief designer is an engineering position.

Chinese space program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From the top, you can see that the demonstration technology provided by Russia was a major contributor.

 

[ephone]

"The PhDs set the general direction but several experienced BS/MS engineers and technicians can replace them"

I cannot believe I hear such retard comments again.

I have never said engineers are not important. However, given solely engineers, you won't have satellite or ICBM or nukes. They can help you realize the design but they cannot do all of those blue-print design and calculation. Most importantly, they won't come up with the original ideas by those scientists.

As about your super-twist of my words to nobel price winners, I have nothing remotely related to what you are dragging along. As long as for "no one else matter", that is not my words but yours. I indicate those scientists trained in the west played the most important roles for China's ICBM, satellites as well as nukes. However, none of my words indicate others are not useful or do not matter. Saying John von Neumann, Edward Teller, Klaus Fuchs, J. Robert Oppenheimer and several other scientists along them play most important roles in developing Nukes, ICBMs and etc, does NOT indicate that those engineers working for them are NOT important at all. Just like, saying Steve Jobs plays the most important role for Apple's revival has not indicated any condescending remarks against those designers, engineers working for apple and make the products realized.

Well, it may be already too hard for a retard like you to understand.

About today's person's names, what is the point? Where did I mention that they are trained by the west? I did not mention every scientists working in China are trained by the west. Just read what I have said exactly and do not twist my words again.

Mass movement? Definitely not. Not everyone has the ability to contribute to science because they lack the basic training. A collective effort of all engineers and scientists in the project? Yes. I don't think you know how science is done in industry or even academia today. Cardsharp and I have both conducted research in both academic and industrial settings. We know how it is done. The bulk of the work is done by BS/MS level engineers and technicians, including design work. The PhDs set the general direction but several experienced BS/MS engineers and technicians can replace them.

The number of engineers and scientists in a society is directly proportional to its technological ability.

Why did I mention Nobels? Because that is taking your idea, that science and technology is driven by "Great men" and no one else matters, to the extreme. The logic goes, if Nobels, the highest prize in science, are great men of science, and that progress is driven by great men, the technological ability of any society should be directly proportional to the number of Nobel Prizes its members have recieved.

South Korea and China both have zero Nobel Prizes. Kenya and India have more Nobel Prizes than China and South Korea. Yet are Kenya and India scientific superpowers, and South Korea and China weak loser nations?

Also its laughable to say that "even today" they're trained in the West. Song Wencong, Xue Chishou, designers of the J-10, don't even know English. Even during the 50's, Qian was the DIRECTOR of the ICBM project, not necessarily its CHIEF DESIGNER. Big difference for anyone that's worked on a technical project. Director is a management position, chief designer is an engineering position.

Chinese space program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From the top, you can see that the demonstration technology provided by Russia was a major contributor.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You mean, you are the dick-man as well as that anti-Semitic bxx-freezing.

What a shame. We China historically have never had any anti-Semitic campaign. Now I have to apologize to Jewish people that unfortunately we do have some idiots here who are just so retard beyond imagination and think Israel is China enemy No. 1, way surpass those horrible atrocities russia and japan have ever committed, even though the rape of nanking was only about 74 years ago and only a little over 30 years for the zhenbao island incident.

Cardsharp and below_freezing are a thousand times more respectable than you are.

 

[ephone]

Cardsharp and below_freezing are a thousand times more respectable than you are.

Well, another dick-man surfaces. If you call those anti-Semitic remarks respectable, there is nothing I can say to these type of dick-men.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Well, another dick-man surfaces. If you call those anti-Semitic remarks respectable, there is nothing I can say to these type of dick-men.

I have no interest in anti-semitism, one of my closest friends is actually an Israeli who lives in HK.

You on the other hand ephone, you have an obvious anti-Muslim bias, which makes you a hypocrite for lecturing others on prejudice.

 

[CardSharp]

I have no interest in anti-semitism, one of my closest friends is actually an Israeli who lives in HK.

You on the other hand ephone, you have an obvious anti-Muslim bias, which makes you a hypocrite for lecturing others on prejudice.

A simple case of his trying to convince others that his bias is more creditable and legitimate.

 

[ephone]

I am talking about those anti-Semitic remarks by your friend: bxx-freezing. Listing others' preferences has nothing to prove what you are.

I do not think you can label me as anti-muslim or anti-any other religion.

I believe no matter what religion your parent or family come from, or whatever your parental preference is, the children within the family should be able to freely make choice about whatever religion they want to choose when they reach certain age they can lawfully represent themselves, e.g. 18 or 21 depending on different countries.

Such freedom should not be threatened by any external forces, no matter where they come from including your family.

They should be able to choose either join in one religion or leave that religion freely.

Any criminal activities trying to force away such freedom should be seriously punished including death penalty. I am glad no such religion exists in China since all religions have been modified to obey China Laws. China protect her citizens to make those choices freely.

If your religion can do that, I do respect that. If your religion cannot do that or use those types of "honor killing" to intimidate people leaving your religion or converting to another religion, I have zero respect for yours for sure.

If you believe your religion is really that great, you should trust your GOD that can attract people to join with you to enjoy what your GOD can teach you. Whether they go to hell or go to paradise by entering your religion or leaving your religion is not for you to make judgement, but your GOD if you believe.

BTW, if you put yourself in other's shoe, I do not know whether you prefer to being stoned to death or free to make your choice related to religious issues: e.g. join/leave. Then examine your preference and see who is really the hypocrite.

I have no interest in anti-semitism, one of my closest friends is actually an Israeli who lives in HK.

You on the other hand ephone, you have an obvious anti-Muslim bias, which makes you a hypocrite for lecturing others on prejudice.

 

[ephone]

A simple case of his trying to convince others that his bias is more creditable and legitimate.

What type of bias exactly?