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Chinese Leadership's motivation behind latest escalation with India

IbnAbdullah

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"War is continuation of politics by other means" (Clausewitz)

What politics are Chinese playing with these other means.

This thread is meant to discuss the motivations of the Chinese leadership behind their move on the LAC.

The question isn't merely why are the Chinese doing this but why are they doing it now?

The Chinese strategic thinkers are looking at this on a massive chess board that has to account for not just the regional realities but also global realities. They also must be considering the economic effects this could have as well as the response of the western powers.

Keep in mind the Chinese have also recently made the move on Honk Kong. So there may be a larger game at play here than anything to do with India specifically.

Anyways, looking forward to a rational discussion.

(Please avoid pointless banter. It adds nothing to the discussion. There are plenty of threads where you can lob pointless insults at each other and show your patriotism.)
 
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Chinese had realised, as the world would come out of COVID-19 epidemic, there will be economic turmoil in the world - similar to what followed after 1918 Spanish flu
They also calculated that India will play the most vital role, as she has a large geographical presence, sizeable army, land connections to China, shortest air route to China and a large navy.

It was a no brainer that India must be pacified before it can cause any problem.

India, and the world, have been caught napping; as they all think that China does not like wars.
Well! China turned out to be lot smarter.
 
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Chinese are slapping US bitches
Australian also got hit with import duties
 
1. Take advantage of their early exit from the Covid epidemic. Strike while others are preoccupied.

2. India needed a rebuttal over their ululations regarding GB and AJK. This has achieved that. India are now silent.

3. Threats in SCS have increased against Chinese interests. This move has allowed them to hold India in prolonged check, while China addresses HK, Taiwan and SCS problems.
 
India provoked all of this due her unilateral actions in disputed regions with all her neighbouring countries.

The Chinese are only in it for their own defense.

Pakistan is out of place in this battle of giants.
 
PakBrother mine,

Indeed, a valid, simple question!

To answer this simple question in a simple manner is rather difficult to say the least!

In short, the PRC is reacting to IndoPacificPartnership and threats to XinJiang and Tibet.

India by offering itself as Frontline State Against China .... wishes to join the high table of the US led CombinedWest ... which is bent upon Containing China.

The paper, illegal annexation of IoJK and declaring Ladakh a UnionTerritory by the ModiRegime was the breaking of the promises/assurances he made to Pres. Xi.

The Indians also accelerated military infrastructure development in Ladakh..which could be a threat to XinJiang and Tibet.... and then, and only then... to CPEC.

The pressure that the US wishes to build on China in SouthChinaSea is directly related to mirroring it to AfroPak/AfroAsianOcean falsely called IndianOcean..an imperical designation!

INS is to become the Policeman in AfroPak/AfroAsianOcean...challenging PLAN and the Chiense SeaLines of Communications.... Containment!

We cann't truly know what the Chinese want
...because it is not a unidimmensional approach or outcome...hence, the most we can do is speculations!

Let us have a look at the Map of Eurasia....

Now, as you can see:

  • China and Russia are in Strategic Coordination.

  • Pakistan and China are Strategic Partners

  • China and CentralAsia are SCO partners and tied by energy deals.

  • China and Afghanistan ...well, XinJiang again... but with the Yanks leaving...the good Indians will have to leave... so a lessening headache.

  • China and EastAsia biggest trading partners... expect for Japan's Existential Angst... presence of the US troops

  • China and NorthKorea.... Fat Kim is just a boy...and sedate...all good there!

  • China and Taiwan .... intertiwned through business and people...so alot of soundbites and sabber rattling..but StatusQuo.

  • China and ASEAN biggest tradding partners... also BRI... increasing Sinofication of AESAN trade/economy. FTA... alot of noise around SouthChinaSea but none of the ASEAN will go beyond that

  • China and India.... China tried to incite India through BRICS, SCO, AIIB and China-Russis-India Trilateral Framework...but India has been tilting towards the US since the 1990s... ModiRegime only accelerated the process...
    India decided since 2000s that it was to be Competitor to China... a Rival power...with ambitions to become a SuperPower... hence, it has been opposing BRI and CPEC rather vocally... Now it has been signing StrategicAgreements with all of the ChinaContianmentParty members...

Please, also consider..that India publishing maps showing GB/AJK and parts of China territories as its own...and making loud claims to regain these by force....

KhooniVirus came and turned the world into Giant IoJK!!!

China got the blame...and the good Indians went overboard with blaming China...calling it ChineseVirus, echoing Mr. Trump's Tweet!

Even here on PDF the good Indians made it their mission to call the KhooniVirus as such...

The TradeWar between the US and China was barely
... concluding that the KhooniVirus struck..WHO got grinded in the middle... and India voted to for an investigation...primarily targeting the Chinese..by its design.

Now the song of Decoupling with the Chinese economy is getting louder...easy said than done...but the rhetoric will gain more momentum...

India wishes to gain by the Chinese loss... by positioning itself as Frontline State Against China ...

5G
is another front in this Hybridwar! And India is opposing the Chinese company..siting security concerns...echoing America agian.

Also, if you have read... IndianGov put restriciton on the Chinese companies investing in India during the KhooniVirus lockdown and after it... since, Indian economy is in recession and heading towards a depression...as its CreditRatings are now practically junk...making cost of borrowing higher!

Why now, you asked?

It makses logical sense to conclude that the PLA actions were planned sometime back and now executed with speed..surprising the Indians.

Imagine... what are the probabilities... the US and Indians doing joint exercises in IndianOccupied Ladakh... the US establishing intelligence presence there...in collaboration with RAW..

If you recall the US Senate passed Tibet Bill and HongKong Bill and soon XinJiang Bill... (Never for PakKashmiris in IoJK!!!)

When you put all of the above, perhaps, it becomes clear that China is forced to react to counter what might be coming down the road... a kinda Proactive Reaction, to secure XinJiang and Tibet!

My sense is that the Chinese have concluded that the good Indians are not going to be netural in Sino-US ColdWar3.0 but rather they will be the Frontline State Against China ... think DalaiLama replacement sooner than later....

Therefore, the Chinese are trying to establish pre-emptive Facts-on-the-Ground with PLA Activism... not to make India choose..but to keep it preoccupied.... while not going for full frontal war... just keeping it under pressure... and having options to increase the pressure should India go a bit too hostile....

In the meantime, trade will be ongoing... Indians on AsocialMedia and other media will keep on spewing rage/hate against China... but trade will be ongoing...

Ladakh, Nepal and Sikkim make access to the soft underbelly of China... the PRC wishes to create a Firewall now...

What are Pakistan's Options in all this, you have posed?

Not many!

However, IF there is a Strategic Framework of Defence...then we can create tons of headache for the good Indians... from CeaseFireLine to IB... without going into full fledge war...

We can do a reverse of what the good Indians did when they stationed their troops along our borders for a year.... we can do the same.. but then someone has to foot the bill!!!


I don't see the Chinese going down the sweet talking India's Rabbit Hole...

Modi has broken too many promises already... and Xi cann't take a risk in Tibet and XinJiang... more important than SouthChinaSea!

The Chines will try to keep Indians under pressure on different point on LCA...with enough muscle in the backup to discourage any adventure from the Indians...

However, should there by some really powerful impulse within the ModiRegime to prove that India is a GreatPower and will not be intimidated by China.... it might do something rash... and then all bets are off!

Enter Russia as PeaceMaker!!!

It is, also, imperative that we undertand that if the OIC is not taking the Cause of PakKashmiris...then we are on our own.... with a singular partner who has its Own Interests at Heart first and farmost!!!

Hopefully, this helps to develop a productive discussion....

Mangus

@masterchief_mirza @Ace of Spades @Slav Defence @Socra @PakSword @RescueRanger @Signalian @PanzerKiel @BHarwana @LeGenD @Arsalan @Blacklight @Verve @jaibi

Ahhhh...
So very well put together.
Thanks !
 
PakBrother mine,

Indeed, a valid, simple question!

To answer this simple question in a simple manner is rather difficult to say the least!

In short, the PRC is reacting to IndoPacificPartnership and threats to XinJiang and Tibet.

India by offering itself as Frontline State Against China .... wishes to join the high table of the US led CombinedWest ... which is bent upon Containing China.

The paper, illegal annexation of IoJK and declaring Ladakh a UnionTerritory by the ModiRegime was the breaking of the promises/assurances he made to Pres. Xi.

The Indians also accelerated military infrastructure development in Ladakh..which could be a threat to XinJiang and Tibet.... and then, and only then... to CPEC.

The pressure that the US wishes to build on China in SouthChinaSea is directly related to mirroring it to AfroPak/AfroAsianOcean falsely called IndianOcean..an imperical designation!

INS is to become the Policeman in AfroPak/AfroAsianOcean...challenging PLAN and the Chiense SeaLines of Communications.... Containment!

We cann't truly know what the Chinese want
...because it is not a unidimmensional approach or outcome...hence, the most we can do is speculations!

Let us have a look at the Map of Eurasia....

Now, as you can see:

  • China and Russia are in Strategic Coordination.

  • Pakistan and China are Strategic Partners

  • China and CentralAsia are SCO partners and tied by energy deals.

  • China and Afghanistan ...well, XinJiang again... but with the Yanks leaving...the good Indians will have to leave... so a lessening headache.

  • China and EastAsia biggest trading partners... expect for Japan's Existential Angst... presence of the US troops

  • China and NorthKorea.... Fat Kim is just a boy...and sedate...all good there!

  • China and Taiwan .... intertiwned through business and people...so alot of soundbites and sabber rattling..but StatusQuo.

  • China and ASEAN biggest tradding partners... also BRI... increasing Sinofication of AESAN trade/economy. FTA... alot of noise around SouthChinaSea but none of the ASEAN will go beyond that

  • China and India.... China tried to incite India through BRICS, SCO, AIIB and China-Russis-India Trilateral Framework...but India has been tilting towards the US since the 1990s... ModiRegime only accelerated the process...
    India decided since 2000s that it was to be Competitor to China... a Rival power...with ambitions to become a SuperPower... hence, it has been opposing BRI and CPEC rather vocally... Now it has been signing StrategicAgreements with all of the ChinaContianmentParty members...

Please, also consider..that India publishing maps showing GB/AJK and parts of China territories as its own...and making loud claims to regain these by force....

KhooniVirus came and turned the world into Giant IoJK!!!

China got the blame...and the good Indians went overboard with blaming China...calling it ChineseVirus, echoing Mr. Trump's Tweet!

Even here on PDF the good Indians made it their mission to call the KhooniVirus as such...

The TradeWar between the US and China was barely
... concluding that the KhooniVirus struck..WHO got grinded in the middle... and India voted to for an investigation...primarily targeting the Chinese..by its design.

Now the song of Decoupling with the Chinese economy is getting louder...easy said than done...but the rhetoric will gain more momentum...

India wishes to gain by the Chinese loss... by positioning itself as Frontline State Against China ...

5G
is another front in this Hybridwar! And India is opposing the Chinese company..siting security concerns...echoing America agian.

Also, if you have read... IndianGov put restriciton on the Chinese companies investing in India during the KhooniVirus lockdown and after it... since, Indian economy is in recession and heading towards a depression...as its CreditRatings are now practically junk...making cost of borrowing higher!

Why now, you asked?

It makses logical sense to conclude that the PLA actions were planned sometime back and now executed with speed..surprising the Indians.

Imagine... what are the probabilities... the US and Indians doing joint exercises in IndianOccupied Ladakh... the US establishing intelligence presence there...in collaboration with RAW..

If you recall the US Senate passed Tibet Bill and HongKong Bill and soon XinJiang Bill... (Never for PakKashmiris in IoJK!!!)

When you put all of the above, perhaps, it becomes clear that China is forced to react to counter what might be coming down the road... a kinda Proactive Reaction, to secure XinJiang and Tibet!

My sense is that the Chinese have concluded that the good Indians are not going to be netural in Sino-US ColdWar3.0 but rather they will be the Frontline State Against China ... think DalaiLama replacement sooner than later....

Therefore, the Chinese are trying to establish pre-emptive Facts-on-the-Ground with PLA Activism... not to make India choose..but to keep it preoccupied.... while not going for full frontal war... just keeping it under pressure... and having options to increase the pressure should India go a bit too hostile....

In the meantime, trade will be ongoing... Indians on AsocialMedia and other media will keep on spewing rage/hate against China... but trade will be ongoing...

Ladakh, Nepal and Sikkim make access to the soft underbelly of China... the PRC wishes to create a Firewall now...

What are Pakistan's Options in all this, you have posed?

Not many!

However, IF there is a Strategic Framework of Defence...then we can create tons of headache for the good Indians... from CeaseFireLine to IB... without going into full fledge war...

We can do a reverse of what the good Indians did when they stationed their troops along our borders for a year.... we can do the same.. but then someone has to foot the bill!!!


I don't see the Chinese going down the sweet talking India's Rabbit Hole...

Modi has broken too many promises already... and Xi cann't take a risk in Tibet and XinJiang... more important than SouthChinaSea!

The Chines will try to keep Indians under pressure on different point on LCA...with enough muscle in the backup to discourage any adventure from the Indians...

However, should there by some really powerful impulse within the ModiRegime to prove that India is a GreatPower and will not be intimidated by China.... it might do something rash... and then all bets are off!

Enter Russia as PeaceMaker!!!

It is, also, imperative that we undertand that if the OIC is not taking the Cause of PakKashmiris...then we are on our own.... with a singular partner who has its Own Interests at Heart first and farmost!!!

Hopefully, this helps to develop a productive discussion....

Mangus

@masterchief_mirza @Ace of Spades @Slav Defence @Socra @PakSword @RescueRanger @Signalian @PanzerKiel @BHarwana @LeGenD @Arsalan @Blacklight @Verve @jaibi

Brother it's all circling around one point; "the dollar empire" "global currency". Cannot emphasize this enough. Perception, demand, commodities, allies, conflicts, military misadventures... every thing circling around one point. to create demand for USD. It was a perfect circle until china became an anomaly. EU's feathers were cut by brexit but a bit too hasty move... We had discussed this previously, it's not in the interest of US to push china to the point where it dumps the T-bills. And if EU join forces with China; where will USD be? As i keep mentioning agian and again, BRI is leading somewhere.... to europe, to africa. And africa being EU colony. All this south china sea, vietnam and all the other is hogwash to keep china at it's toes to come at terms with US.

In this whole game of chess, the next logical step i see after the completion of BRI would be trading in YEN; with countries BRI connects to and beyond... with t-bills dumped, dollar value going down and YEN being the main global currency. That's where china's game is at.. and US' worst dream. So here comes the pawns, easy distraction, disposable. Australia, UK and a new addition India... and when the push comes to the shove where will be GCC, a million dollar quesiton.

Now to Pakistan, where does it leads us... a country heavily relying on IMF bailouts, an instrument of dollar empire. GCC's parked dollars.... ladakh, kashmir, resistance, what good it would be for Pakistan when there won't be nothing to pay back the loans... CPEC will materialize in years. BRI in may be decades. Until then what's the game plan? Some strategic free trade agreements! Preference based free market with China, turkey, central asia! Decoupling Pakistan's economy from USD! And some where in all that don't forget the pawns... occupied kashmir...

And all that begs the question; who is gonna make strategic framework and implement all that with active diplomacy.

@Mangus Ortus Novem @PakSword @Slav Defence @Blacklight
 
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I bet it has just happened discord, and commotion at the local level.

During all previous border incidents, local commanders were unable to do anything, but to take satellite phones and trying to hours go up the chain of command. Now, with all the disarray from the two sessions, something must have broke in the command chain, and the guy just took initiative into his own hands.

I don't believe that Xi was that much desperate to throw a distraction, given that Chinese media were dead silent about it for weeks, and if he were to do so, there would've been other options on the table. Now Xi himself throws mixed signals about this, possibly looking for an option to stand down without it looking like a retreat.

Wu Shezhou lost one star, and relived of Western theatre command because of Doklam incident three years ago. We will have to see how Zhao Zongqi (the current Western theatre commander) will fare, if he loses a start or two, it was unintentional, if he are to retire quietly in a few years, then it was unintentional, but Zhongnanhai didn't disapprove of him, and if he will be given a pat on the head, then it would be Xi's doing after all.

I have heard of Zhao being one of few ballsy generals left in the general staff. Xi has replaced a lot of generals after Xu purge. Most of new ones are of very humble service records.
 
I bet it has just happened discord, and commotion at the local level.

During all previous border incidents, local commanders were unable to do anything, but to take satellite phones and trying to hours go up the chain of command. Now, with all the disarray from the two sessions, something must have broke in the command chain, and the guy just took initiative into his own hands.

I don't believe that Xi was that much desperate to throw a distraction, given that Chinese media were dead silent about it for weeks, and if he were to do so, there would've been other options on the table. Now Xi himself throws mixed signals about this, possibly looking for an option to stand down without it looking like a retreat.

Wu Shezhou lost one star, and relived of Western theatre command because of Doklam incident three years ago. We will have to see how Zhao Zongqi (the current Western theatre commander) will fare, if he loses a start or two, it was unintentional, if he are to retire quietly in a few years, then it was unintentional, but Zhongnanhai didn't disapprove of him, and if he will be given a pat on the head, then it would be Xi's doing after all.

I have heard of Zhao being one of few ballsy generals left in the general staff. Xi has replaced a lot of generals after Xu purge. Most of new ones are of very humble service records.

the end question is, this is a litmus test. if we cannot stand against India, then what are our options in other major theaters?
 
1. Take advantage of their early exit from the Covid epidemic. Strike while others are preoccupied.
partially agreed on this one,to started a new front line in the far west with Indian while we are occupied with Yankees doesn't sound logical thus my understanding of the current situation is a strike back to those who wanted to takes advantage of the epidemic in early march till April as some suggests that the Indian started preparing since early March, but things has changed too fast and now it is China who doesn't wanted to let it go easily.
 
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