Chinese incursion during Xi Jinping’s visit a mystery, Air chief Arup Raha says

[axisofevil]

exactly and big powers like China use those small excuses that India gave asylum to Dalai lama to make a boundary issue .

while China tactically annexed Tibet which was never part of Chinese empire it refuses to validate the Indo-Tibtan border . and now it is using the decade old Dalai lama saga to further its military agenda .

is it a matter of great introspection that despite 5 decades of stranglehold over Tibet why you guys are so worried about Dalai lama ?

No point Indo. These guys will chit chat for centuries without making any sense. That's their point. It's all about leverage and furthering their agenda. Time to make Afghanistan a major allly.....bring them into a secret treaty. Take out the Sri Lankan ruling elite and install a friendly regime who suddenly wants to join the Indian union, make the border with Bangladesh linear with straight lines to make patrolling easier, pump more money into our research and all levels of education, build a superior civil service that rivals China, etc. Time to make mandatory military training for all youngsters compulsory like Israel.

Indians just can't accept the fact that when President Xi Jinping visited India, he also took his military with him to teach the elephant a lesson. Despite the humiliation, India Hindu Extremist regime still accepted $20 billion worth of juicy Chinese yuan.

Get over it people.

Look at it this way, last year the United Stated stripped an ambassador naked and a few months later, the Hindu Extremist Prime Minister Narendra Modi goes over to kiss Obsmas boots, I mean sign investment deals... business as usual

How far do you wanna go back? I can point numerous issues with treatment regarding Chinese and Pakistani's. so get over it. Drones bombing your citizens daily, foreign troops entering deep into country's heartland next to a premier military institution to nab OSAMA, etc are just a few points I can bring up. Get over it, its just business as usual.

 

[Bang Galore]

this sounds good, except it doesn't mash too well with actual thinking on this side. Great nation diplomacy has no friends, but allies, and balance of power. The concert of Europe created no friends, but did make peace in their time.

There isn't a concept of Asian century or Chinese century, we go at our own pace, we won't let an American concept hasten a calculated process. That's not how winning is done. We will advance our power as we see fit, the chips can fall where they may.

It is India that isn't treating China with respect. The Tibetans are separatists and terrorists. Whether you think that is irrelevant, we think that. India sheltering them means India sees itself as superior, or at least in tends to use them as a chip, Nehru certainly did. You say we fired the first bullet? You got a knife in our flesh and continue to twist, so at this point, anything short of war is pretty justified on our side.

I'm sure that you as a Chinese see things from a different perspective, I'm not making a moral or value judgment. My point is directed from an Indian perspective addressing fellow Indians. You may well consider "anything short of war" justified but as an Indian who sees things from an obviously different perspective, my point was about the steps India should take to safeguard that perspective. Wrong, right are all wasted judgments that serve no purpose, it is not necessary that Indian & Chinese views have to mesh. China will look out for itself & India must do the same regardless of whether the process of doing so causes consternation in China or not. Why I said we(Indians) must not be wooly headed about this relationship.

 

[axisofevil]

I'm sure that you as a Chinese see things from a different perspective, I'm not making a moral or value judgment. My point is directed from an Indian perspective addressing fellow Indians. You may well consider "anything short of war" justified but as an Indian who sees things from an obviously different perspective, my point was about the steps India should take to safeguard that perspective. Wrong, right are all wasted judgments that serve no purpose, it is not necessary that Indian & Chinese views have to mesh. China will look out for itself & India must do the same regardless of whether the process of doing so causes consternation in China or not. Why I said we(Indians) must not be wooly headed about this relationship.

Well said. Glad to finally see Indians are waking up. Many of you guys were so blind to the obvious......

 

[Bang Galore]

Well said. Glad to finally see Indians are waking up. Many of you guys were so blind to the obvious......

Never me.....been saying this pretty much all the time I have been here.

 

[kaku1]

The reason for the "incursions" and lack of a resolution lies in your PM Nehru's actions. Not the 62 war, but the Lama. He made sure the Lama remain a powerful force in international politics, I mean still being a pretender.

Right now you control the second most important whatever to the tibetan MONKS. Now if we agree to status quo, would that not give the Tibetans some ammo in their 1875 musket? Or what if they use that as a base to promote it further, or worse India gives that town to the Tibetans, and use it as a sacrifice for the independence of whole Tibet.

Not only are we not going to give up Tibet, we can't, too much water is there, we rather give up Beijing than Tibet.

You might think they are far fetched, it doesn't matter what you think, it matters what I think, since my actions are what's important, or at least what you are trying to understand.


Fast forward to today, Modi invited that "PM" Lobster Song or something to his inauguration, his meaning was clear, he intends to use Tibet against us, he still has the mentality of Nehru that India is the leader of the developing world. Well so be it, he's got his response.



this sounds good, except it doesn't mash too well with actual thinking on this side. Great nation diplomacy has no friends, but allies, and balance of power. The concert of Europe created no friends, but did make peace in their time.

There isn't a concept of Asian century or Chinese century, we go at our own pace, we won't let an American concept hasten a calculated process. That's not how winning is done. We will advance our power as we see fit, the chips can fall where they may.

It is India that isn't treating China with respect. The Tibetans are separatists and terrorists. Whether you think that is irrelevant, we think that. India sheltering them means India sees itself as superior, or at least in tends to use them as a chip, Nehru certainly did. You say we fired the first bullet? You got a knife in our flesh and continue to twist, so at this point, anything short of war is pretty justified on our side.

Bro, actually we accepted your rights of Tibet in 2003, this is just an excuse now to not resolve the border issues. But here I have different perspective, why not China coming openly that what he want on LAC? Why so much ambiguity?

And we dont want status quo, lets resolve the issues.

 

[axisofevil]

Yup, we have no clue. Atleast when we talk to our friend Pak, we know there intentions. God knows what the Chinese intentions are. If they want to claim AP, then say it.

But matter of fact is that, they are not doing incursions in AP, but in Ladakh, which means they want status quo as resolved solution, if I understand them correctly.

Its done on purpose bro. You must assume intentions are not peaceful and will escalate. Force China's hand to move in any direction, so be it. We must their game quite well and play it better. I have quite a few ideas on how to approach China but posting on the web will take out the element of surprise. Posting our views online, allows for anyone to pick up hints and clues and build on them to make them better.

 

[Joeblow]

Question is not what we think ? question is knowing what China is thinking .
This total lack of insight towards China's intentions and our inability to respond appropriately is most worrisome .

We have noted the trend of incursions timed during visits of Chinese dignitaries since very long - why in that case we failed to undertake steps to prevent such incursions is matter of shame !

Our strategic and intelligence community seems to be groping in dark with regards to China's exact intentions to stage such massive incursion and stand off during visit of its Head of state .

I can answer that for you. Everytime you build something anywhere even in the distant vicinity of the LAC, PLA shows up. You stop building and they go away. This time it was a canal. Everyone in India acts like it was a major victory in making the PLA back down but in reality the canal project was stopped and PLA went back. It's their tactic. They are developing their side while preventing you from developing yours. The biggest problem right now is that unlike the LOC, there is no shooting at the LAC so both sides tend to get in each other's faces knowing there won't be any real violence. There needs to be either be a settlement on the border issue or you need start shooting. Let there be a couple of full scale mobilizations then both sides will know that this a serious matter and stop pushing each other's buttons. What's happening right now is death by a thousand cuts. Right now they are making sure you don't have any infrastructure on your side while furiously developing their side and you're letting it happen.

 

[Indo-guy]

I can answer that for you. Everytime you build something anywhere even in the distant vicinity of the LAC, PLA shows up. You stop building and they go away. This time it was a canal. Everyone in India acts like it was a major victory in making the PLA back down but in reality the canal project was stopped and PLA went back. It's their tactic. They are developing their side while preventing you from developing yours. The biggest problem right now is that unlike the LOC, there is no shooting at the LAC so both sides tend to get in each other's faces knowing there won't be any real violence. There needs to be either be a settlement on the border issue or you need start shooting. Let there be a couple of full scale mobilizations then both sides will know that this a serious matter and stop pushing each other's buttons. What's happening right now is death by a thousand cuts. Right now they are making sure you don't have any infrastructure on your side while furiously developing their side and you're letting it happen.

I am afraid the answer is not as simple .

Irrespective of whether India is going ahead with border infrastructure development or not , China had been slowly ratcheting up pressure on India .

what did India do in recent times so that China has opened up new diplomatic issues such as Arunachal Pradesh ?

It is rather interesting that only after 6 decades , china has realized that Arunachal Pradesh belongs to them ? why now?

why China all of a sudden started issuing separate visas to Arunachal Pradesh residents ? what was it's policy before 2005 ?

To be frank it had no such policy .

so raising Arunachal Pradesh, and issuing separate visas to AP residents is a new level of escalation from Chinese side .


This is because China now feels that due to its economic might , military superiority and international clout - it can force agenda on India .

Yes it is bleeding india with thousand cuts .

But I do not think military mobilization is a solution to stop it.

the solution is going to be much more complex as the problem happens to be . and it will need to be tackled at various levels .

 

[Joeblow]

I am afraid the answer is not as simple .

Irrespective of whether India is going ahead with border infrastructure development or not , China had been slowly ratcheting up pressure on India .

what did India do in recent times so that China has opened up new diplomatic issues such as Arunachal Pradesh ?

It is rather interesting that only after 6 decades , china has realized that Arunachal Pradesh belongs to them ? why now?

why China all of a sudden started issuing separate visas to Arunachal Pradesh residents ? what was it's policy before 2005 ?

To be frank it had no such policy .

so raising Arunachal Pradesh, and issuing separate visas to AP residents is a new level of escalation from Chinese side .


This is because China now feels that due to its economic might , military superiority and international clout - it can force agenda on India .

Yes it is bleeding india with thousand cuts .

But I do not think military mobilization is a solution to stop it.

the solution is going to be much more complex as the problem happens to be . and it will need to be tackled at various levels .

China has always claimed AP to be part of Tibet. This is not new. They haven't done anything about it because it's is logistically hard for them to hold on to it against india's will because of its location. They didn't have time or money to invest before but now they do so they are bringing to hear all the pressure they can on all fronts without starting a full scale war. Even now they don't want to piss India off enough for India to react but still keep the pressure on India. That's why my advise was to stop the flag waving and escalate things a bit so they stop mucking around and start talking about a solution. However, the solution is going to against the Indian constitution because it doesn't allow for ceding of territory and askai chin is still technically indian territory even though we haven't controlled it in 60 years.

 

[Tractor]

To Chinese members here India just means a person Nehru and a number 1962 but to me India is the only country which occupying our massive territory and PLA just let it be.

The reason for the "incursions" and lack of a resolution lies in your PM Nehru's actions. Not the 62 war, but the Lama. He made sure the Lama remain a powerful force in international politics, I mean still being a pretender.

Right now you control the second most important whatever to the tibetan MONKS. Now if we agree to status quo, would that not give the Tibetans some ammo in their 1875 musket? Or what if they use that as a base to promote it further, or worse India gives that town to the Tibetans, and use it as a sacrifice for the independence of whole Tibet.

Not only are we not going to give up Tibet, we can't, too much water is there, we rather give up Beijing than Tibet.

You might think they are far fetched, it doesn't matter what you think, it matters what I think, since my actions are what's important, or at least what you are trying to understand.


Fast forward to today, Modi invited that "PM" Lobster Song or something to his inauguration, his meaning was clear, he intends to use Tibet against us, he still has the mentality of Nehru that India is the leader of the developing world. Well so be it, he's got his response.



this sounds good, except it doesn't mash too well with actual thinking on this side. Great nation diplomacy has no friends, but allies, and balance of power. The concert of Europe created no friends, but did make peace in their time.

There isn't a concept of Asian century or Chinese century, we go at our own pace, we won't let an American concept hasten a calculated process. That's not how winning is done. We will advance our power as we see fit, the chips can fall where they may.

It is India that isn't treating China with respect. The Tibetans are separatists and terrorists. Whether you think that is irrelevant, we think that. India sheltering them means India sees itself as superior, or at least in tends to use them as a chip, Nehru certainly did. You say we fired the first bullet? You got a knife in our flesh and continue to twist, so at this point, anything short of war is pretty justified on our side.

Tibet only means one thing must be went through though itself just garbage to take back our own thing.

 

[Joeblow]

To Chinese members here India just means a person Nehru and a number 1962 but to me India is the only country which occupying our massive territory and PLA just let it be.

Tibet only means one thing must be went through though itself just garbage to take back our own thing.

@Tractor why do think India is occupying Chinese territory and which part? And what are you basing your definition of Chinese territory?

 

[Tractor]

@Tractor why do think India is occupying Chinese territory and which part? And what are you basing your definition of Chinese territory?

The land of Arunachal is the southern part of four or more Chinese counties.These counties are Motuuo,Milin,Tsona and Chayu which in Chinese are 墨脱,米林,错那 and 察隅 and you can check Chinese media and our own map.