Chinese incursion during Xi Jinping’s visit a mystery, Air chief Arup Raha says

[Indo-guy]

The honest, public admission and exhortation by none other than the Air Chief regarding having no clue about Chinese incursions is a matter of great concern - and comes as a great surprise to me .

Lack of insight into Chinese intentions will have impact on our responses in moment of sudden escalation .


will like to know opinion of PDF members about this issue !


Chinese incursion during Xi Jinping’s visit a mystery, Air chief Arup Raha says - The Times of India


NEW DELHI: The Chinese incursion into Ladakh and the way the episode had coincided with the visit of Chinese President Xi Jinping to India was a "mystery", IAF chief Arup Raha said on Saturday even as he stressed that Indian forces were not yielding any ground at the border.

"It's been always a mystery the way incursions take place and the way they get timed with various visits ... It's nothing new, it remains a mystery for all of us.

"You all know that in diplomacy a lot of signalling is done, especially so with our northern neighbour. It could be part of some signalling to my mind. But I am not going to guess what it really means," he told reporters at an interaction ahead of Indian Air Force's 82nd anniversary celebrations on October 8.

However, making it clear that India was "not giving ground to anyone", Raha blamed the frequent face-offs between Indian and Chinese troops along the line of actual control (LAC) on differences of perception between the two countries over the actual position.

An Indian Army officer keeping vigil near the LAC in Arunachal Pradesh. (TOI file photo)
"There are differences in perception as to where the LAC is ... This is leading to face-offs. However, our security forces are following policies ... We are not giving ground to anyone," he said.

Meanwhile, referring to the measures being taken to build military infrastructure along the border with China, Raha said that a fighter aircraft base is coming up at Nyoma in Ladakh, but added that the project would take about five years to be completed.

Indian troops patrolling near the LAC with China. (TOI file photo)

Another base would come up in Kargil, he said, adding that the funds will be released soon for it.

"These bases are strategically important for us and will improve our capabilities," he said.

Upgrade of six airfields in the northeast is also being carried out and the work will be completed by the end of 2015.

That would allow air force to operate fixed wing aircraft from there for swifter force mobilization, Raha said.

 

[axisofevil]

I believe while there is a subtle msg being played, it could be practice maneuvers for a hypothetical invasion. Think about it. If China was to attack, would they attack at one point or open numerous points? By entering different points, it allows China to see our strengths and weaknesses......continually allowing them to adapt.

 

[Indo-guy]

I believe while there is a subtle msg being played, it could be practice maneuvers for a hypothetical invasion. Think about it. If China was to attack, would they attack at one point or open numerous points? By entering different points, it allows China to see our strengths and weaknesses......continually allowing them to adapt.

Question is not what we think ? question is knowing what China is thinking .
This total lack of insight towards China's intentions and our inability to respond appropriately is most worrisome .

We have noted the trend of incursions timed during visits of Chinese dignitaries since very long - why in that case we failed to undertake steps to prevent such incursions is matter of shame !

Our strategic and intelligence community seems to be groping in dark with regards to China's exact intentions to stage such massive incursion and stand off during visit of its Head of state .

 

[kaku1]

I believe while there is a subtle msg being played, it could be practice maneuvers for a hypothetical invasion. Think about it. If China was to attack, would they attack at one point or open numerous points? By entering different points, it allows China to see our strengths and weaknesses......continually allowing them to adapt.

So, they want to learn the things on the day there premier is visiting in India. Thats doesnt make any sense.

And even why diplomatic signalling that way, just say it, it would be more helpful. Incursion like that just dont add up.

 

[Tractor]

The picture of Bum La again,nothing serious will happen there and nearby.But that place is the real point of the border issue.

 

[Indo-guy]

So, they want to learn the things on the day there premier is visiting in India. Thats doesnt make any sense.

And even why diplomatic signalling that way, just say it, it would be more helpful. Incursion like that just dont add up.

Chinese are actually trying to test our patience to tolerate such incursions with backdrop of Diplomatic engagements of great importance .

They know that India will not do anything which will sabotage the diplomatic engagement .

I believe it to be very ominous trend . Unfortunately knowing the trend well we apparently did nothing to prevent it .

 

[axisofevil]

Question is not what we think ? question is knowing what China is thinking .
This total lack of insight towards China's intentions and our inability to respond appropriately is most worrisome .

We have noted the trend of incursions timed during visits of Chinese dignitaries since very long - why in that case we failed to undertake steps to prevent such incursions is matter of shame !

Our strategic and intelligence community seems to be groping in dark with regards to China's exact intentions to stage such massive incursion and stand off during visit of its Head of state .

That's the thing. China does it on purpose based on its Art of War strategy to confuse the enemy of its intentions. Our leaders have been completely blinded by them and never acted properly. We should have been infiltrating China long ago with spies. We had many great missed opportunities. It may seem plausible to think China's gov't thinks one way and the military another. However, it would be more ingenious if both are acting in tandem. Think about it. Confusion serves a purpose.

So, they want to learn the things on the day there premier is visiting in India. Thats doesnt make any sense.

And even why diplomatic signalling that way, just say it, it would be more helpful. Incursion like that just dont add up.

That;sa good point but you are neglecting that such incursions have been going on many times regardless of the timing. I guess it just sends a msg....but Im quite clueless to even imagine what it is. So, if China was trying to send a subtle msg, they missed the mark big time coz not one single Indian has understood what the f-k they want LOL

 

[kaku1]

Chinese are actually trying to test our patience to tolerate such incursions with backdrop of Diplomatic engagements of great importance .

They know that India will not do anything which will sabotage the diplomatic engagement .

I believe it to be very ominous trend . Unfortunately knowing the trend well we apparently did nothing to prevent it .

Then they are idiots, they still dont understand how to do a simple diplomacy.

Chinese are actually trying to test our patience to tolerate such incursions with backdrop of Diplomatic engagements of great importance .

They know that India will not do anything which will sabotage the diplomatic engagement .

I believe it to be very ominous trend . Unfortunately knowing the trend well we apparently did nothing to prevent it .

And instead of this incursion, If the Xi Jinping ask from Prime Minister about converting status quo into International border, then that would be more appropriate and direct and with no ambiguity.
And I am damn sure PM will accept to create a framework to do so. Even I was expecting that kind of joint statements.

Incursion doesnt resolve a thing, but create more.

 

[Indo-guy]

That's the thing. China does it on purpose based on its Art of War strategy to confuse the enemy of its intentions. Our leaders have been completely blinded by them and never acted properly. We should have been infiltrating China long ago with spies. We had many great missed opportunities. It may seem plausible to think China's gov't thinks one way and the military another. However, it would be more ingenious if both are acting in tandem. Think about it. Confusion serves a purpose.





That;sa good point but you are neglecting that such incursions have been going on many times regardless of the timing. I guess it just sends a msg....but Im quite clueless to even imagine what it is. So, if China was trying to send a subtle msg, they missed the mark big time coz not one single Indian has understood what the f-k they want LOL

I do not think that PLA and CCCP will act against each other . I am pretty sure that they are acting in tandem with agenda that we are not able to fathom .
It's carrot and stick policy - China is trying to overwhelm India economically to further its military agenda .

It's very clear to them that India will not take extreme position that will shadow visit of its head of state for boundary stand off over so called due to differential perception .

Then they are idiots, they still dont understand how to do a simple diplomacy.
.

No they are not idiot . they are smart and shrewd .

Give your opponent its due credit .

The biggest mistake one can do is to underestimate its opponent .

 

[kaku1]

I do not think that PLA and CCCP will act against each other . I am pretty sure that they are acting in tandem with agenda that we are not able to fathom .
It's carrot and stick policy - China is trying to overwhelm India economically to further its military agenda .

It's very clear to them that India will not take extreme position that will shadow visit of its head of state for boundary stand off over so called due to differential perception .

See, one, the incursion like DBO or current one, are definitely signalling, other wise they dont leave there position and war already started.

But what the hell PLA signalling about, I dont know about you, but I dont understand a thing from this signalling. If they saying the border is still an issue, then say it, what the problem in it,

IS THE CHINESE FOREIGN OFFICE DONT HAVE ANY KIND OF TONGUE?

 

[Indo-guy]

And instead of this incursion, If the Xi Jinping ask from Prime Minister about converting status quo into International border, then that would be more appropriate and direct and with no ambiguity.
And I am damn sure PM will accept to create a framework to do so. Even I was expecting that kind of joint statements.

Incursion doesnt resolve a thing, but create more.

That's the problem - you do not understand .
They are no longer interested in solving boundary problem . If at all it will be on their terms .

they are merely trying to push the limits to ensure that whenever boundary talks comes to the table - they will negotiate it with position of strength .

they are not interested in status quo .

They think economically and militarily they are strong enough to force their position on their opponents .

That is the strategy with which they are working in their neighborhood .

 

[kaku1]

I do not think that PLA and CCCP will act against each other . I am pretty sure that they are acting in tandem with agenda that we are not able to fathom .
It's carrot and stick policy - China is trying to overwhelm India economically to further its military agenda .

It's very clear to them that India will not take extreme position that will shadow visit of its head of state for boundary stand off over so called due to differential perception .



No they are not idiot . they are smart and shrewd .

Give your opponent its due credit .

The biggest mistake one can do is to underestimate its opponent .

I am not underestimating, but there way of doing diplomacy is horrible.

 

[Indo-guy]

See, one, the incursion like DBO or current one, are definitely signalling, other wise they dont leave there position and war already started.

But what the hell PLA signalling about, I dont know about you, but I dont understand a thing from this signalling. If they saying the border is still an issue, then say it, what the problem in it,

IS THE CHINESE FOREIGN OFFICE DONT HAVE ANY KIND OF TONGUE?

That is the issue - we have not understood so far exact reasons for such misadventures .
may be they are testing Indian response . may be they want to test indian resolve to maintain peace and how much beating we will take to ensure peace .

may be they want to enlarge the extent of their claims .

there are many possibilities ...

we have no clue ...that's the most shocking thing ...

I am not underestimating, but there way of doing diplomacy is horrible.

This is the same shrewd diplomacy with which they managed to usurp Scarborough shoals ,Spartlay islands from Phillipines ...

 

[Indo-guy]

I am not underestimating, but there way of doing diplomacy is horrible.

Ever read of Salami Slicing ?

That's their general strategy - which seems to be succeeding well ....

 

[axisofevil]

I do not think that PLA and CCCP will act against each other . I am pretty sure that they are acting in tandem with agenda that we are not able to fathom .
It's carrot and stick policy - China is trying to overwhelm India economically to further its military agenda .

It's very clear to them that India will not take extreme position that will shadow visit of its head of state for boundary stand off over so called due to differential perception .



No they are not idiot . they are smart and shrewd .

Give your opponent its due credit .

The biggest mistake one can do is to underestimate its opponent .

Definitely, never sleep on China. They are quite smart and capable. Even though the British defeated them, they were still able to retain their way of life by being shrewd.


That economic point you bring up is true. That's why I get upset and annoyed when folks yapp about our industrail players wanting to buy Chinese products in sensitive areas. They are quite clueless about the security concerns and totally ignore it. China has understood the game for a long time and they were lucky enough to implement their strategy to overtake it. Money talks. They have been copying the West to gain maximum speed in terms of catching up. they used sex, wine and cheap slave labor to bring companies over. When Western diplomats and businessman came to talk business or seal deals, the state policy would be send a few girls overnight to please them! They break all rules and make their own which is great. Its the only way to play a game that has been created by others.


My thing is China has armed Pakistan to the teeth andno matter how much, we try Im afraid they don't really care for India. We a re a threat to them in terms of competiton.