I agree Max.... good post.
It will benefit the entire subcontinent but we should learn to look thru people like OMAR who want to put a spoke in every moving wheel.
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I agree Max.... good post.
It will benefit the entire subcontinent but we should learn to look thru people like OMAR who want to put a spoke in every moving wheel.
We tried to contain india in the sub-continent just as US tried to contain us in aisa. No more, No less.
The game of geo-politics have always been like this and will always be
Nothing personal````````````and hope that we could play it politely and fair.
PeacefulIndian
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We tried to contain india in the sub-continent just as US tried to contain us in aisa. No more, No less.
The game of geo-politics have always been like this and will always be
Nothing personal````````````and hope that we could play it politely and fair.
Good that we are accepting that we are playing geo-political games of containment. Now here we can begin our discussion.
I have series of questions for Chinese. First is, what palpable benefits China will have, by trying to contain India? And what will they lose, if they build a strategic partnership with India? I would like to hear answers from Chinese point of view.
Chinese official media do cover up, but seldom lie. India democratic free media lie to public, as they are free to lie.
Agreed that it is interesting.
linkinpark
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We tried to contain india in the sub-continent just as US tried to contain us in aisa. No more, No less.
The game of geo-politics have always been like this and will always be
Nothing personal````````````and hope that we could play it politely and fair.
You are the most pragmatic Chinese I have come across who said this. Geo-politics will always go, each country will try out maneuver other countries to secure and further their interests, it is as simple as that. China, US and India are doing exactly the same by encircling one another to secure their interests.
Gabbar
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India-China ties on firm footing despite border dispute: Menon
NEW DELHI: Ties between India and China are now more evolved and nuanced and the boundary dispute between the two countries has failed to limit
engagement in other areas. This was the message conveyed by foreign secretary Shiv Shankar Menon during a book release on India-China relations.
Menon also cautioned both India and China against resorting to protectionism to deal with the world economic meltdown. He said it would hurt both economies in the long run. "For either of us, India or China, to respond to the economic crisis through protectionism, no matter how attractive it would be in the short term, would only hurt our economies," he said, adding that China was India's single largest trading partner.
Menon said that despite the differences between India and China over the boundary dispute, both the countries have maintained status quo over the issue. "We have our perceptions and they too have their own perceptions on the boundary and incursions into each other's territories. The important thing is whether or not there is a change in the pattern of incursions to suggest that China is trying to alter the status quo. We can say that there is nothing to suggest that China is doing anything like this," said Menon, while releasing the book, `India China Relations: The Border Issue and Beyond' by Mohan Guruswamy and Zorawar Daulet Singh.
Menon also sought to clarify that the nature of the boundary dispute with China was different from the dispute with Pakistan. "With China it is not a border dispute but a boundary dispute which is peaceful. In J&K, there is an internal and political process. It is not a territorial or a bounday problem," stated Menon, adding that the global context of the relationship had changed fundamentally.
He said that the two countries were competing and cooperating at the same time and that they would not allow the boundary dispute to limit other engagements. Asked about the next round of talks on the boundary issue, he said the two sides were trying to fix dates for it. "It is an ongoing process. There are special representatives who have met and will continue to meet. We will make an announcement when we fix up the dates for the next meeting," he said.
When asked about track II diplomacy with Pakistan a few years ago over the J&K issue and the need for a similar exercise with China, Menon clarified that it wasn't track II at all. "It was actually an official process carried out within the composite dialogue process," he said. He further said that it was difficult to carry forward talks on the boundary dispute publicly as past experiences had shown that "the more you do it in public, less the chances of succeeding".
NEW DELHI: Ties between India and China are now more evolved and nuanced and the boundary dispute between the two countries has failed to limit
engagement in other areas. This was the message conveyed by foreign secretary Shiv Shankar Menon during a book release on India-China relations.
Menon also cautioned both India and China against resorting to protectionism to deal with the world economic meltdown. He said it would hurt both economies in the long run. "For either of us, India or China, to respond to the economic crisis through protectionism, no matter how attractive it would be in the short term, would only hurt our economies," he said, adding that China was India's single largest trading partner.
Menon said that despite the differences between India and China over the boundary dispute, both the countries have maintained status quo over the issue. "We have our perceptions and they too have their own perceptions on the boundary and incursions into each other's territories. The important thing is whether or not there is a change in the pattern of incursions to suggest that China is trying to alter the status quo. We can say that there is nothing to suggest that China is doing anything like this," said Menon, while releasing the book, `India China Relations: The Border Issue and Beyond' by Mohan Guruswamy and Zorawar Daulet Singh.
Menon also sought to clarify that the nature of the boundary dispute with China was different from the dispute with Pakistan. "With China it is not a border dispute but a boundary dispute which is peaceful. In J&K, there is an internal and political process. It is not a territorial or a bounday problem," stated Menon, adding that the global context of the relationship had changed fundamentally.
He said that the two countries were competing and cooperating at the same time and that they would not allow the boundary dispute to limit other engagements. Asked about the next round of talks on the boundary issue, he said the two sides were trying to fix dates for it. "It is an ongoing process. There are special representatives who have met and will continue to meet. We will make an announcement when we fix up the dates for the next meeting," he said.
When asked about track II diplomacy with Pakistan a few years ago over the J&K issue and the need for a similar exercise with China, Menon clarified that it wasn't track II at all. "It was actually an official process carried out within the composite dialogue process," he said. He further said that it was difficult to carry forward talks on the boundary dispute publicly as past experiences had shown that "the more you do it in public, less the chances of succeeding".
Firstly, I have to clarify that my words only represent my personal view, which is neither in consistence with the public view of common chinese, nor with the official view. If I say : 'we```', it only means that 'I assume we````'.
So the first thing we want is leadership in Aisa, or better, leadership of aisa-africa. Can india abide that? If you can, we could form a US-canada relationship----assuming the potential of india, I think you would not agree.
Secondly, for our influence in SE,NE asia and our own energy security, the control over India occean and Southern china sea is essential for China. The basest level should be our own safe passage through the Malacca , the highest level should be the ability of denial to all other passage through the Occean if we dictated it so----Does not mean that we will ever do it, Just like the US, it is not about what you do, but what you can do.
Once that was achieved, NE nation, like Japan, korea will fall to our camp lilke the apple in autumn.
The first two points is a little bit too far away, but where is our confliction of interests now?
Lets we imaging every country has a globle of influence and a globle of interests. our globle of interests has reached far far to every corner in the world. The most important points is: 1 NE aisa, 2 MEest, 3 africa 4 N america 5 EU. But now our globle of influence are locked inside the NE by US and cannot go further away from our border. And no one outside our influence globle would dare to join us because US has every possible leverage to dictate them--from aid to embargo to invasion. So when the ultimate confliction between us and US came, they will certainly fall to their camp whether they like it or not.
NE, ME EU, NA all are the strongest fortress of US which we cannot take by conventional means. But for NE and ME, there is SE and SA, which has always been chaotic and weak in US influence and that is where we can take. SE asia and S asia connects the world energy pool to the world factory, everyone with the sanity would understand that dominance over these two area would neutralize the US dominance over NE and ME.
So, where is my point?
My point is: can india abide our dominance of south east aisa?
can india share the dominance of india occean with us?
can we trust india as the greater share holder of india occean?
can india trust us as the greater share holder of SE aisa?
can we cooperate to jam US out of these two area?
If we can, then we can be allies, and there can be two leaders in Aisa. But for now, I don t think you would agree, for china now is not yet strong enough to back our deal or threat.
Aeneas
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why not tell all truth?India has military ties with US and USSR,how could poor Pakistan do?it is your Indians pressured Pakistan become ally of China.
Myanmar become ally of China because US pressure,you know Myanmar had to move the capitol for fear of US attack,so,how could poor Myanmar do when facing powerful US?why not make friend with China?
Where there is oppression,there is resistance.it's unfair that India ties with US and USSR,while blame Pak make friend with China.
karnivore
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What makes you think that something which can do cover ups, can not lie.
Oh wait....you did say "seldom lie". Let me rephrase that.
What makes you think that something which can do cover ups, can not lie more often than not.
And interestingly enough, how does an average Chinese, I mean those fellows living in China and not shooting from the "land of freedom", know that they have been lied to?
Kinda reminds of that old Pravda joke:
"There is no Pravda in Izvestia, and there is no Izvestia in Pravda". Meaning, "there is no truth in the news, and there is no news in the truth".
karnivore
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It is of course unfair of India to complain about Pakistan's ties with China. But I guess, it is absolutely India's prerogative to consider her enemy's friend, to be a threat (I would not use the term "enemy" vis a vis China. "Competitor" is a better and more accurate term).
karnivore
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O goody. Cooperation on China's term.
Note to self:
India's attempt to safeguard her interest.....BAD, VERY BAD. PURELY HEGEMONIC.
China's attempt to safeguard her interest.....GOOD, VERY GOOD. PURELY A MATTER OF RIGHT.
Max The Boss
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China and India mainly focusing on their
Economic Development & Energy Security.
So China and India can corporate with each
Other on the issue peacefully.
For example China and India can sign a
Navel Corporation Agreement.
China can share South China Sea
With India.
India can share Indian Ocean
With China.
If China and India ready to corporate
With each other peacefully then both
Countries benefit.
Economic Development & Energy Security.
So China and India can corporate with each
Other on the issue peacefully.
For example China and India can sign a
Navel Corporation Agreement.
China can share South China Sea
With India.
India can share Indian Ocean
With China.
If China and India ready to corporate
With each other peacefully then both
Countries benefit.
Proud2Indian
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Well I guess you misunderstood my comment.....I was not talking abt media but abt freedom .... If ur media is covering up/lie-ing ...U have no way of knowing because of govt. restriction...here our media surely lie in cases ......but again we can as well get the info from world media without any restrictions....
tx
Gabbar
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India warships to join Chinese fleet review in April
New Delhi, Mar 20 (PTI) In a sign of growing defence ties between the two Asian giants, India will send two of its naval ships to China to participate in the International Fleet Review at its port-town of Quingdao this April.
This will be the second occasion in the last two years that India's naval ships would visit a Chinese port.
"Indian warships will be participating in the Chinese fleet review to be held between April 20 and 24. The Navy ships would also carry out a passage exercise with the Chinese navy vessels in the South China sea during the visit," a senior Navy source said here today.
Pakistan too would be joining the fleet review with its Type-21 frigate and another unnamed warship, sources said.
The visit to China would be part of Navy's annual deployment of its warships of the eastern fleet in the Pacific Ocean beginning today and extending up to May 19.
Among the Navy's eastern fleet, Delhi-class guided missile Destroyer INS Mumbai, Rajput-class Destroyer INS Ranvijay, Khukri-class missile Corvette INS Khanjar and Fleet Replenishment Ship INS Jyoti would be part of the deployment in the Pacific, the sources said.
Of these, INS Jyoti and another warship would take part in the fleet review. India had earlier sent its warships to China in early 2007 for a passage exercise. PTI
India warships to join Chinese fleet review in April .
New Delhi, Mar 20 (PTI) In a sign of growing defence ties between the two Asian giants, India will send two of its naval ships to China to participate in the International Fleet Review at its port-town of Quingdao this April.
This will be the second occasion in the last two years that India's naval ships would visit a Chinese port.
"Indian warships will be participating in the Chinese fleet review to be held between April 20 and 24. The Navy ships would also carry out a passage exercise with the Chinese navy vessels in the South China sea during the visit," a senior Navy source said here today.
Pakistan too would be joining the fleet review with its Type-21 frigate and another unnamed warship, sources said.
The visit to China would be part of Navy's annual deployment of its warships of the eastern fleet in the Pacific Ocean beginning today and extending up to May 19.
Among the Navy's eastern fleet, Delhi-class guided missile Destroyer INS Mumbai, Rajput-class Destroyer INS Ranvijay, Khukri-class missile Corvette INS Khanjar and Fleet Replenishment Ship INS Jyoti would be part of the deployment in the Pacific, the sources said.
Of these, INS Jyoti and another warship would take part in the fleet review. India had earlier sent its warships to China in early 2007 for a passage exercise. PTI
India warships to join Chinese fleet review in April .
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