Chinese FM rejects Philippine, Japanese, U.S. claims on South China Sea issue

[FairAndUnbiased]

Interesting, Japan is so close to Germany, and the Protestant work culture ethic.

Japan is pretty westernized but you won't ever be a true western country. China, Korea, Russia, etc. are nearly the opposite of westernized; US is on the lower right corner while we are upper left. Its not in the clothing, etc. since after all, Russians always wore suits and ties just like westerner. its in the language, culture and values we hold. We just don't think about problems the same way.

 

[Aepsilons]

Japan is pretty westernized but you won't ever be a true western country.

No one claimed we were a western country.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

No one claimed we were a western country.

didn't 19th century Japanese talk about 脱亚入欧?

 

[Aepsilons]

There is a difference between westernizing in terms of academic pursuits and in scientific inquiry (through western empiricism) from transforming socially speaking. Japan, to this day, may be westernized , but the deep core of Japanese society remains in firmament with Confucian culture. The paradigm of harmony of Confucianism, Zen-Buddhism, Shintoism, with Western Philosophy.

In other words, Japanese Society borrowed the core strengths of Western Civilization and applied it to the Japanese Context.

 

[xesy]

There are essential difference between Stealing one dollar and stealing one thousand dollars?

Not you don't want, but you can't, you don't have that capability to make such hugh project, ok, don't seems how innocent you are, you are not innocent, but you are impotent.

And before China start the massive construction in spratly, Vietnam and Phillippine have started it, and built the runway, don't cry, China will be more "aggressive" while you are draging USA and other power in SCS.


Depending on and Using is contradictory? I don't find he contradict hiself, I just think you don't understand. you fighting enemy with you gun, not depend on it, but use it, ok!


Hehe, mind to list "everybody"? don't miss someone,

And they are for both civilian and military uses, unlike yours which solely dedicated for military purposes. We can argue that we expanded the island for new civilian facilities (yeah, it's not like our civilians have the money and resource to move back inland), and there is no fair excuse for your expansion.

 

[VALKRYIE]

Chinese are east Asians with ancestry in northern China and yellow river, speak sino Tibetan language, and have a long tradition of literature, science, engineering, art and architecture.

Vietnamese don't even speak sino Tibetan but Austronesian language, and the word science didn't even exist for them until the 19th century.

if you look at the global values survey China is closest to Korea and eastern Europe while Vietnam is closer to India and Thailand.

Language doesn't necessarily correlate to genetics. Northern Europeans like Dutch, Noreweign, Swedish, English and French borrow and spoke germanic based language it doesn't mean their German.

VN language is NOT Austronesian....thats Philippines, Indonesian and Malaysian.

That 2008 graph is retarded. VN culture is based on Confuciusim how did it in up with India and Thailand.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Language doesn't necessarily correlate to genetics. Northern Europeans like Dutch, Noreweign, Swedish. England and parts of France borrow and spoke germanic based language it doesn't mean their German.

VN language is NOT Austronesian....thats Philippines, Indonesian and Malaysian.

That 2008 graph is retarded. VN culture is based on Confuciusim how did it in up with India and Thailand.

it's based on points from a survey. the labels are generalized, the point position is due to score only. Vietnamese don't share Chinese values because Chinese aren't pure Confucianism either. we are close to eastern euro too.

 

[Aepsilons]

VN language is NOT Austronesian....thats Philippines, Indonesian and Malaysian.

Vietnamese is NOT Austronesian, it IS Austroasiatic.

Austroasiatic languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[William Hung]

You don't understand what I try to say. I would like to explain more details. China once got screwed by European powers, Chinese still could decide our own fate, had chance to reform if the govt want to do, in 1900's, Qing dynasty tried to accept constitutional monarchy. Or later the republic revolution, it's all lead by ourselves. In Vietnam, the French decided which Vietnamese could be king, all policy was issued by French.

Yes, Viet Nam got screwed by the French, and yes, they imposed their authority on us. However, you’ve ignored the fact that there were always resistance and rebellion from the Vietnamese population, which eventually lead to the battle of Dien Bien Phu and the withdrawal of the French.

You say China could still decide her fate? so ceding some territory of HK to Britain and renting out the rest of HK and Macau to Portugal/Britain was your decision? What about the opium trade once widespread in China, was that your decision too? What about the northern territories gained by Russia, it was entirely your decision too?

...It seems you like to take WWII as example, it's China fought with Japan, China govt and people fought against. In Vietnam, did Vietnamese have rights to fight against Japanese? France surrender means Vietnam surrendered, you even don't have chance/right to declare war.

Yes, China fought against the IJA, but nearly all historians says that the US was the decisive factor that caused the defeat and withdrawal of the IJA from China. You needed the US.

And yes, the Viet Minh and other Vietnamese factions did fought against the IJA in VN. The Viet Minh and the IJA were officially enemies. Were we effective and did we singlehandledly forced the IJA out? No, just like China, we were not and the IJA withdrew largely due to US involvement in the Pacific theater. The difference is we don’t twist history and pretend that it was completely due to our effort and not someone elses.

I said China and USA needs each other in the cold war, I didn't say China needed US to go against Vietnam-Soviet alliance. China's field was in Vietnam, and US's field was in Afghanistan and Africa, but both targeted at USSR. Perhaps, Vietnam didn't allied with USSR and invaded neighbors, Vietnam would have been free of the conflict. So called winning the Vietnam war gave Vietnamese leaders lot of erroneous judgement. They never thought why Vietnam could resist and win in the Vietnam War.

Your statement is still a contradiction. You said you needed the US in the cold war but dont need the US for the Vietnam-Soviet alliance. You do know the cold war was a struggle primarily between the West lead by the US and the Communist bloc lead by the Soviet? So you needing the US during the cold war is to say that you needed the US to go against the Soviet, who had its presence in Viet Nam. Almost all historians says China shaked hands with the US to leverage against the Soviet.

So in fact, what you are accussing of Viet Nam doing right now is exactly like what China have done to the Soviet.

 

[TaiShang]

Are you trying to compare this to this?

Different engineering capabilities. It is not that you would not further fortify your reclaimed islands if you had capability.

You have intentions but smaller capabilities. And you simply ask China to act smaller than its capabilities.

China is still pretty much reserved, which should change.

Perhaps China should stop being stupid antagonizing everybody in East Asia.

Maybe US should stop spying on Japan.

And Japan should stop having territorial disputes with almost every neighbors (Higher percentage than China).

 

[sweetgrape]

And they are for both civilian and military uses, unlike yours which solely dedicated for military purposes. We can argue that we expanded the island for new civilian facilities (yeah, it's not like our civilians have the money and resource to move back inland), and there is no fair excuse for your expansion.

For both Civilan and military use? hehe, first Military, the main purpose is for military, in the island, the so-called civilian is to assist the military use.

Let me have a gamble, after the construction finished in China island, the unarmed citizen in China island is much higher rate than you? dare you? we will more civilian than you.

You Vietnam and Phillippine start the game, while pretend to be innocent, I have said, China will be more aggressive, you think you drag USA there can help you? hehe, don't you find, USA always help directly or indirectly, whether they want or not(Maybe you can't understand), the USA attendence in China, just will speed up the construction, you can check when China start the massive reclaimation, of course, it is not the only reason.

Drag more power in SCS if you can.

 

[TaiShang]

And they are for both civilian and military uses, unlike yours which solely dedicated for military purposes. We can argue that we expanded the island for new civilian facilities (yeah, it's not like our civilians have the money and resource to move back inland), and there is no fair excuse for your expansion.

In fact, China's construction is mainly for civilian and scientific use, including ensuring safety of navigation. On the other, you are the pioneers of island build-up, including air strips and deep ports, which are mainly for military use.

Your impotence does not mean your intentions are also small.

 

[William Hung]

Depending on and Using is contradictory? I don't find he contradict hiself, I just think you don't understand. you fighting enemy with you gun, not depend on it, but use it, ok!

Read the original conversation again. He said China only depended on itself, but then admit that China needed the US. Everyone knows that China shaked hands with the US to leverage against the Soviet. The US also played the key role for the withdrawal of the IJA. And I have yet to mention how the US/West also played an important role of helping China to open its trade and economy to integrate it with the rest of the western world.

So now you are saying China only “used” the US and did not “depended” on it? Nice word play. What about Viet Nam then? Whats the difference? In our case, we are not “using” the US but is “depending” on the US? Whats the difference that makes one “using” and the other “depending” on the US? lol

that is a cheap shot
Deng was rising from his seat when Carter extended his hand for shaking
That photo has been used by the vietcongs all over the internet when they need an orgasm

How is that a cheap shot? It is the original picture. It tells the history of China shaking hands with its former enemy (USA) to go against its former friend (USSR). This will always be recorded down in history.


Your country have done to the USSR exactly what your compatriots are now accusing Viet Nam of doing. Maybe this is a case of Karma being a .....?

 

[sweetgrape]

Read the original conversation again. He said China only depended on itself, but then admit that China needed the US. Everyone knows that China shaked hands with the US to leverage against the Soviet. The US also played the key role for the withdrawal of the IJA. And I have yet to mention how the US/West also played an important role of helping China to open its trade and economy to integrate it with the rest of the western world.

So now you are saying China only “used” the US and did not “depended” on it? Nice word play. What about Viet Nam then? Whats the difference? In our case, we are not “using” the US but is “depending” on the US? Whats the difference that makes one “using” and the other “depending” on the US? lol

Hehe, don't know it is your undestranding problem or mine, now it is "depend on".I still not find his comment say China depend on US to leverage agains the Soviet,

For me, hand and brain are first, as the weapon in my hand, how to use it, depend on my brain, of course, you can interpret the "use" as "depend on", depend on you eyes.

How is that a cheap shot? It is the original picture. It tells the history of China shaking hands with its former enemy (USA) to go against its former friend (USSR). This will always be recorded down in history.


Your country have done to the USSR exactly what your compatriots are now accusing Viet Nam of doing. Maybe this is a case of Karma being a .....?

Hehe, after reading you this comment, I am laughing, can be not that? can understand why you mistake the "depend on" and "use".

the picture you post "show" China "depend on" USA, but we post, is nothing? hehe, man, you comments always pretend to you are wise man, but, hehe, you are stupid as many vietnamese here, So hypocritical, are you BoQ77? oh man, sick.

 

[William Hung]

There is a difference between westernizing in terms of academic pursuits and in scientific inquiry (through western empiricism) from transforming socially speaking. Japan, to this day, may be westernized , but the deep core of Japanese society remains in firmament with Confucian culture. The paradigm of harmony of Confucianism, Zen-Buddhism, Shintoism, with Western Philosophy.

In other words, Japanese Society borrowed the core strengths of Western Civilization and applied it to the Japanese Context.

it's based on points from a survey. the labels are generalized, the point position is due to score only. Vietnamese don't share Chinese values because Chinese aren't pure Confucianism either. we are close to eastern euro too.

I totally agree with you on this part bro. And I’ve said it here before, us Vietnamese are the most similar to the Thai, socially and mentally.
I have visited Thailand and have Thai friends so Im telling this from experience.

Imo, if you want to find out who you are most socially (I dont like the word “culturally” cos its quite ambiguous) similar to, you need to spend time and interact with the adults and elders. Most asian youths can get along anyway, its only when you interact with their elders that you see the difference.

I can also see how Cyrus could be close to our box, there is a big Greek community where I stay and I can see the similarity in their attitude and values.

I would like to see a thread dedicated for this as there are some misconceptions floating around about the values and “culture” of various Asian ethnicities.@Nihonjin1051 you keen to open one?

Hehe, don't know it is your undestranding problem or mine, now it is "depend on".I still not find his comment say China depend on US to leverage agains the Soviet,

He did not explicitly say “depended” on the US. But when you “needed” the US, as he admitted, and when China decided to shake hand with the US to work together against another country, as history has shown, then that pretty much mean you were depending on the US. You may disagree with my terminology, but I’m just telling the history.

And this history is not different from what your compatriots are now accusing Viet Nam of doing. You may change the words between “depend” and “use” but it will still look pretty much the same.

For me, hand and brain are first, as the weapon in my hand, how to use it, depend on my brain, of course, you can interpret the "use" as "depend on", depend on you eyes.

And this is what is wrong with this discussion and we will never get anywhere. You are interpreting the word “use” and “depend” however you like to fit your own narrative.