Chinese Flanker Family: J-11, J-16 ... Su-27SK/UBK, Su-30MKK

[Princeps Senatus]

I am curious how good the Chinese flanker variants are to the Russians. Is it a case of better electronics weapons and same airframe. With the Ukraine war and how many flanker losses Russia has been reported it kind of gives them a negative image.

Flanker is a very capable platform in terms of power and kinematics. The problem with Russian Flankers is that they have very old avionics. Chinese upgraded these Flankers with modern avionics. So they are much much better.

 

[Broccoli]

It is not perculiar to Flankers, the effectiveness of Manpad applies to all aircrafts and UAVs from East and west that are not equiped with MAWS.

Chinese Flankers do have MAWS, can't say the same for the Russian aircraft.

And it is strange that Russians are flying low within the range of stinger missile, i.e. below 5,000M, knowing that NATO had supplied large amount of the missile to Ukraine.

Russians are forced to fly low if they want to hit anything because they don't have that many targeting pods.

 

[lcloo]

Russians are forced to fly low if they want to hit anything because they don't have that many targeting pods.

Do you have confirmation on this?

Su-25 does not use targeting pod because it has a laser guidance system (SVP-24) built in at its nose, just like Jaguar strike jet. SU-24 is also equiped with SVP-24 built in, so it also does not need targeting pod.

Also, SU-34 has Platan targeting system built in.

My speculation is that they were carrying dumb iron bombs, and need to fly low to drop the bombs as accurate as possible to avoid collateral damages. This may also indicate low inventory level of precision guided missiles/bombs in Russian airforce, and the need for allocating usage of PGM for high value targets only.

 

[Broccoli]

Do you have confirmation on this?

Su-25 does not use targeting pod because it has a laser guidance system (SVP-24) built in at its nose, just like Jaguar strike jet. SU-24 is also equiped with SVP-24 built in, so it also does not need targeting pod.

Also, SU-34 has Platan targeting system built in.

My speculation is that they were carrying dumb iron bombs, and need to flow low to drop the bombs as accurate as possible to avoid collateral damages. This may also indicate low inventory level of precision guided missiles/bombs in Russian airforce, and the need for allocating usage of PGM for high valuable targets only.

Those can only look forward so very limited targeting systems. Nothing like what modern airforces use.

 

[LKJ86]

J-11B and J-11BS

Via http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2022-03/24/content_10143324.htm

 

[vi-va]

Do you have confirmation on this?

Su-25 does not use targeting pod because it has a laser guidance system (SVP-24) built in at its nose, just like Jaguar strike jet. SU-24 is also equiped with SVP-24 built in, so it also does not need targeting pod.

Also, SU-34 has Platan targeting system built in.

My speculation is that they were carrying dumb iron bombs, and need to fly low to drop the bombs as accurate as possible to avoid collateral damages. This may also indicate low inventory level of precision guided missiles/bombs in Russian airforce, and the need for allocating usage of PGM for high value targets only.

Agree. Lack of precision ammunition due to budget and technology.

 

[LKJ86]

Su-30MKK2

Via http://www.plapic.com.cn/pub/2022-03/03/content_10136990.htm

 

[LKJ86]

J-16

Via @西部空天 from Weibo

 

[LKJ86]

J-11B

Via http://www.81.cn/kj/2022-03/30/content_10144711.htm

 

[johncliu88]

Just another question. China bought quite a few of the SU-27, SU-30MKK, and 24 SU-35. I never heard about doing MLU for the earlier SU-27s & SU-30MKKs with Chinese made avionic equipments. I believe SAC will be able to do that, right?

 

[lcloo]

Just another question. China bought quite a few of the SU-27, SU-30MKK, and 24 SU-35. I never heard about doing MLU for the earlier SU-27s & SU-30MKKs with Chinese made avionic equipments. I believe SAC will be able to do that, right?

Major MLU has began in earnest for J11B's conversion to J11BG with installation of new radar. I think all Russian made Flankers, including J11A made from imported Russian kits will only receive minimum upgrade.

Upgrade for some J11A had been seen, though the effect was minimum like installation of MAWS but not much changed can been seen from outside.

I believe there won't be major MLU for even earlier SU-27SK. The reason is probably due to short remaining useful airframe lives. I am even not sure SU-27SK are still in service or not. SU-27UBK are also expected to be retired in a few years time.

 

[johncliu88]

Major MLU has began in earnest for J11B's conversion to J11BG with installation of new radar. I think all Russian made Flankers, including J11A made from imported Russian kits will only receive minimum upgrade.

Upgrade for some J11A had been seen, though the effect was minimum like installation of MAWS but not much changed can been seen from outside.

I believe there won't be major MLU for even earlier SU-27SK. The reason is probably due to short remaining useful airframe lives. I am even sure SU-27SK are still in service or not. SU-27UBK are also expected to be retired in a few years time.

Got it. Thanks for your explanation.

 

[LKJ86]

J-16

Via @西部空天 from Weibo

 

[LKJ86]

J-16

Via http://www.81.cn/kj/2022-04/01/content_10145269.htm

 

[alimobin memon]

It is not perculiar to Flankers, the effectiveness of Manpad applies to all aircrafts and UAVs from East and west that are not equiped with MAWS.

Chinese Flankers do have MAWS, can't say the same for the Russian aircraft.

And it is strange that Russians are flying low within the range of stinger missile, i.e. below 5,000M, knowing that NATO had supplied large amount of the missile to Ukraine.

Hello sir, Its difficult to digest that most of Russian flankers don't have MAWS equipped because even jf17 has MAWS.