Chinese Flanker Family: J-11, J-16 ... Su-27SK/UBK, Su-30MKK

[Fsjal]

Still No HMD

Very keen to Know about chinese HMD progress

Sino-Flanker pilots do have HMDs though it looks more like the original Russian HMDs. Considering that China created their own HMD for J-10, I am surprised that none of the Sino-Flanker pilots use domestically-made new HMDs, which is a bit of a shame but maybe they'll start replacing the older Russian HMDs in the future.

 

[rashid.sarwar]

Sino-Flanker pilots do have HMDs though it looks more like the original Russian HMDs. Considering that China created their own HMD for J-10, I am surprised that none of the Sino-Flanker pilots use domestically-made new HMDs, which is a bit of a shame but maybe they'll start replacing the older Russian HMDs in the future.

Can you give modal no. of the HMD developed by China, or post information about it. Thanks.

 

[Fsjal]

Does anyone know if the PLAAF has any plans regarding the future of its J-11As (as well as its J-8IIs)? It'd be interesting to replace not just the J-11As but even the J-8IIs with the J-11D.

Also, it seems that many have different opinions on the new J-11D, especially in light of the debate regarding both the J-11D and the J-20. Interestingly across the Pacific the US is going through a similar debate regarding the F-15X and F-35. I actually want to know what people think about this debate because personally I think J-20 and J-11D would make a good hi-lo mix combination, since the F-35 and F-15X make a good team in theory I could imagine the same for both J-20 and J-11D. I know that many believe J-11D isn't needed but I'm curious what everyone's opinion is on this topic.

Can you give modal no. of the HMD developed by China, or post information about it. Thanks.

I wish I could answer but even I don't know much about Chinese HMD development.

 

[ariez168]

Does anyone know if the PLAAF has any plans regarding the future of its J-11As (as well as its J-8IIs)? It'd be interesting to replace not just the J-11As but even the J-8IIs with the J-11D.

Also, it seems that many have different opinions on the new J-11D, especially in light of the debate regarding both the J-11D and the J-20. Interestingly across the Pacific the US is going through a similar debate regarding the F-15X and F-35. I actually want to know what people think about this debate because personally I think J-20 and J-11D would make a good hi-lo mix combination, since the F-35 and F-15X make a good team in theory I could imagine the same for both J-20 and J-11D. I know that many believe J-11D isn't needed but I'm curious what everyone's opinion is on this topic.

China fokus on FC-31 & WS-15

 

[LKJ86]

J-16

Via @白龙_龙腾四海 from Weibo

 

[LKJ86]

Does anyone know if the PLAAF has any plans regarding the future of its J-11As (as well as its J-8IIs)? It'd be interesting to replace not just the J-11As but even the J-8IIs with the J-11D.

Also, it seems that many have different opinions on the new J-11D, especially in light of the debate regarding both the J-11D and the J-20. Interestingly across the Pacific the US is going through a similar debate regarding the F-15X and F-35. I actually want to know what people think about this debate because personally I think J-20 and J-11D would make a good hi-lo mix combination, since the F-35 and F-15X make a good team in theory I could imagine the same for both J-20 and J-11D. I know that many believe J-11D isn't needed but I'm curious what everyone's opinion is on this topic.

Maybe you have forgotten J-16, which plays the same role as F-15X.

 

[Fsjal]

Maybe you have forgotten J-16, which plays the same role as F-15X.

I haven't forgotten about J-16, though I see both J-16 and J-11D as China's equivalent to Su-30SM and Su-35S. Russia has plans to upgrade their Su-30SM to SM1 standard for better compatibility with their Su-35S, I'm assuming that J-16 already uses same avionics as J-11D so therefore it can be argued that J-11D isn't needed.

Playing devil's advocate, a rationale for PLAAF acquiring J-11Ds is so that J-16s can be more focused on its strike role while J-11D can be assigned to long-range air-defense among China's outer airspace frontiers like South China Sea or East China Sea, kinda like how the USAF has its F-15E focused mainly on expeditionary strike while F-15C/Ds are assigned to air-patrols within the US. The J-11B itself is no doubt already tasked with the heavy air-defense fighter role within the PLAAF but J-11D not only has better avionics but also has aerial-refueling capability, which J-11B lacks.

Although, it really depends on the choices made by the PLAAF on whether they want to buy the J-11D or not. Since the J-16 itself is perfectly multirole, not only is it a long-range heavy strike plane but also a long-range air-defense interceptor. J-16 would be indeed be a better choice since it features a secondary crewmember, important for air-defense intercept, while J-11D only has one.

Btw, do you know which PLAAF units operate the J-16?

 

[LKJ86]

I haven't forgotten about J-16, though I see both J-16 and J-11D as China's equivalent to Su-30SM and Su-35S. Russia has plans to upgrade their Su-30SM to SM1 standard for better compatibility with their Su-35S, I'm assuming that J-16 already uses same avionics as J-11D so therefore it can be argued that J-11D isn't needed.

Playing devil's advocate, a rationale for PLAAF acquiring J-11Ds is so that J-16s can be more focused on its strike role while J-11D can be assigned to long-range air-defense among China's outer airspace frontiers like South China Sea or East China Sea, kinda like how the USAF has its F-15E focused mainly on expeditionary strike while F-15C/Ds are assigned to air-patrols within the US. The J-11B itself is no doubt already tasked with the heavy air-defense fighter role within the PLAAF but J-11D not only has better avionics but also has aerial-refueling capability, which J-11B lacks.

Although, it really depends on the choices made by the PLAAF on whether they want to buy the J-11D or not. Since the J-16 itself is perfectly multirole, not only is it a long-range heavy strike plane but also a long-range air-defense interceptor. J-16 would be indeed be a better choice since it features a secondary crewmember, important for air-defense intercept, while J-11D only has one.

The combination of J-20, J-16, and J-10C can do better than J-11D.
And SAC and CAC have focused on 5th-generation fighters.

 

[Fsjal]

The combination of J-20, J-16, and J-10C can do better than J-11D.
And SAC and CAC have focused on 5th-generation fighters.

The only thing with 5th gen. stealth fighters is cost and maintenance. Currently USAF doesn't particularly operate a large number of F-22s and F-35s compared to the amount of F-16s they have in service. Plus F-35 only recently entered service despite years of development.

Apparently only around 4 PLAAF brigades operate the J-16. It'd take some time for PLAAF to operate a full number of J-20s so it would be interesting to know how much J-16s and J-10Cs are currently in service with PLAAF since the number of J-20s in service is a bit small, especially when compared to the number of F-22s and F-35s currently in service with USAF.

 

[LKJ86]

The only thing with 5th gen. stealth fighters is cost and maintenance. Currently USAF doesn't particularly operate a large number of F-22s and F-35s compared to the amount of F-16s they have in service. Plus F-35 only recently entered service despite years of development.

Apparently only around 4 PLAAF brigades operate the J-16. It'd take some time for PLAAF to operate a full number of J-20s so it would be interesting to know how much J-16s and J-10Cs are currently in service with PLAAF since the number of J-20s in service is a bit small, especially when compared to the number of F-22s and F-35s currently in service with USAF.

But for PLAAF, the present is preferable to the past, by comparing with USAF.

That is enough.

 

[Fsjal]

But for PLAAF, the present is preferable to the past, by comparing with USAF.

That is enough.

Well there's nothing wrong with thinking forward into the future, and I don't see the need to silence an online discussion. While the J-20 entered service already there's still many improvements to be made with its engines, plus the stealth fighters are quite costly themselves. To fill in the vacant spots until the J-20 is produced at a high acceptable number, PLAAF would need to fill in the vacancy by a) buying additional Su-35S from Russia as an interim solution (highly unlikely); b) fill in an order for a couple of squadrons-worth of J-11D (possibly unlikely because of budget); or c) ordering more J-10Cs and J-16s (most likely). The third option would no doubt be the best option because both J-10Cs and J-16s are already in service and also because it's the most cost-affordable solution. Right now PLAAF only has a couple of brigades of J-16s while the number of J-10s (all variants) in service is still slightly less than the total number of F-35s.

 

[vi-va]

The only thing with 5th gen. stealth fighters is cost and maintenance. Currently USAF doesn't particularly operate a large number of F-22s and F-35s compared to the amount of F-16s they have in service. Plus F-35 only recently entered service despite years of development.

Apparently only around 4 PLAAF brigades operate the J-16. It'd take some time for PLAAF to operate a full number of J-20s so it would be interesting to know how much J-16s and J-10Cs are currently in service with PLAAF since the number of J-20s in service is a bit small, especially when compared to the number of F-22s and F-35s currently in service with USAF.

5th generation is the future. The ROI will be lower and lower if keep investing on 4th generation.

 

[zectech]

5th generation is the future. The ROI will be lower and lower if keep investing on 4th generation.

The strategy is to invest in technology to defeat 5th and 6th gen fighters and put that technology on 4th gen fighters. China has the radar to detect stealth at long range; miniaturize the radar and have the radar guide BVR AAM to destroy 5th gen fighters.

Destroying 5th gen fighters is the future, while having your own 5th gen fighters.

 

[vi-va]

The strategy is to invest in technology to defeat 5th and 6th gen fighters and put that technology on 4th gen fighters. China has the radar to detect stealth at long range; miniaturize the radar and have the radar guide BVR AAM to destroy 5th gen fighters.

Destroying 5th gen fighters is the future, while having your own 5th gen fighters.

No. China is not play Asymmetric Warfare game. China will have similar GDP of U.S. in 10 years, and probably twice the GDP of U.S. in another 20 years.

China would probably dominate west pacific and part of Indian Ocean. Only higher generation, better fighter jet can do that job.

Using 5th gen technology to modernize 4th gen fighter jet apply Asymmetric Warfare game with much less budget. and it will NOT win for long run.

 

[zectech]

No. China is not play Asymmetric Warfare game. China will have similar GDP of U.S. in 10 years, and probably twice the GDP of U.S. in another 20 years.

China would probably dominate west pacific and part of Indian Ocean. Only higher generation, better fighter jet can do that job.

Using 5th gen technology to modernize 4th gen fighter jet apply Asymmetric Warfare game with much less budget. and it will NOT win for long run.

I am with you on J-20s are the future in this choice:

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...-j-20-stealth-fighter-or-j-11d-who-wins-55042

But I recall reading as newer technologies arise, they can be put on existing 4th gen fighters to make many of the 4th gen fighters relevant 10-20 years down the road.