Chinese Flanker Family: J-11, J-16 ... Su-27SK/UBK, Su-30MKK

[Sanchez]

@S10

Do read Chinese reports carefully! The 42:0 kill was won in the mock fight contest in May, 2012, while the contest was conducted only among the same type of fighters. In the second exercise of Nov, 2012, the pilots fought against various types of platforms. There was no such a record in the reports!

 

[Agent X]

MKI wil be different.. It doesn't has the EW suit J-11b has.. J-11b has redesigned air inlet to reduced RCS, composite added to reduced weight. MKI will have increased RCS due to its canard..

Wiki say Sukhoi Su-30MKI has electronic counter-measure systems. The RWR system is of Indian design, developed by India's DRDO, called Tarang, (Wave in Sanskrit). It has direction finding capability and is known to have a programmable threat library. The RWR is derived from work done on an earlier system for India's MiG-23BNs known as the Tranquil, which is now superseded by the more advanced Tarang series. Elta EL/M-8222 a self-protection jammer developed by Israel Aircraft Industries is the MKI's standard EW pod, which the Israeli Air Force uses on its F-15s. The ELTA El/M-8222 Self Protection Pod is a power-managed jammer, air-cooled system with an ESM receiver integrated into the pod. The pod contains an antenna on the forward and aft ends, which receive the hostile RF signal and after processing deliver the appropriate response.

can we count all those as EW suit???

J-10A got 3 gold helmets this year ,that's not bad.Just not so good as before.

what's Gold helmets??? some kind of trophy or what?

 

[xuxu1457]

Wiki say Sukhoi Su-30MKI has electronic counter-measure systems. The RWR system is of Indian design, developed by India's DRDO, called Tarang, (Wave in Sanskrit). It has direction finding capability and is known to have a programmable threat library. The RWR is derived from work done on an earlier system for India's MiG-23BNs known as the Tranquil, which is now superseded by the more advanced Tarang series. Elta EL/M-8222 a self-protection jammer developed by Israel Aircraft Industries is the MKI's standard EW pod, which the Israeli Air Force uses on its F-15s. The ELTA El/M-8222 Self Protection Pod is a power-managed jammer, air-cooled system with an ESM receiver integrated into the pod. The pod contains an antenna on the forward and aft ends, which receive the hostile RF signal and after processing deliver the appropriate response.

can we count all those as EW suit???




what's Gold helmets??? some kind of trophy or what?

the top pilots will got gold helmet, about 1/10 pilots, the first will fight for 42 times(include Team and Personal "war") in free air combat, Round robin and Knockout, at least win 90% other 41 J-11 and J-10

 

[Windjammer]

This rather sounds like an excuse to hide the fact the J10 is clearly inferior as compared to the Su30 series, and people were comparing it with Rafale, LOL

Before you execute a victory roll, let me quote you another Chinese member.

@S10

Do read Chinese reports carefully! The 42:0 kill was won in the mock fight contest in May, 2012, while the contest was conducted only among the same type of fighters. In the second exercise of Nov, 2012, the pilots fought against various types of platforms. There was no such a record in the reports!

 

[OrionHunter]

When the parameters are almost equal, it's the man behind the machine that counts!

 

[Peregrine]

These j-11s must be upgraded ones.......lets wait and see how they will perform against j-10b.

 

[Sanchez]

Before you execute a victory roll, let me quote you another Chinese member.

What's your point? J-10 is inferior?

 

[itaskol]

only this year,

usually J10 always won in the past years..

 

[sweetgrape]

The exercise is to train pilot, don't know why OP make the plane stand out, it is not good!!
And, I read the news about the exercise in the website, don't find tham talk about the plane style, till now, Just report the name of one pilot that got golden helmets, that mean, most of the result of the news are unknown, and do you know the exercise items? just J10 fight J11? it is ridiculous, I know that it is title indian like, I knew what kind of comments indian will post here!!


About the exercise, I insist that, don't put too much attention on plane, Pilot and his team are much more important, the purpose of the exercise also to promote Pilot skill and team corportion.

Simple Comparing J10 and J11 is very ridiculous, neglect the title.

 

[xuxu1457]

Jiang Jiaji win his second gold helmet，from Chengdu military region(the region nere India) also the No.1 pilot on the list, 42:0 in 2011 and 41:1 in 2012, one lost to a young pilot; in the same generation fighter, pilot is more important than aircraft. so F-22 can lost to F-18 if pilot quick one second.
When Germany skilled pilots died in WII, Germany air force became a target; and in the later WII, Japanese air force become suicide attack bomb.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Seems like we may be investing in the wrong plane.

Not really. PAF does not choose an airplane by pulling its name out of a hat. They decide it after conducting extensive feasibility tests. If PAF is deciding to stick to J10s, there must be a reason behind it. One bad exercise does not make an aircraft inferior, last year the J10's hammered the J11's. Maybe this year the squadron of J11's might have worked super hard and figured out the vulnerabilities of the J10's and than exploited them. Our F7PG pilots have hammered the F16's in WVR mock combats several times, does that mean the F7PG is a better machine than the F16. No, it was simply because the pilot of F7PG deployed better tactics and did his homework. J10 is an ideal plane for PAF and serves PAF's priorities perfectly.

 

[INDIAISM]

Jiang Jiaji win his second gold helmet,from Chengdu military region(the region nere India) also the No.1 pilot on the list, 42:0 in 2011 and 41:1 in 2012, one lost to a young pilot; in the same generation fighter, pilot is more important than aircraft. so F-22 can lost to F-18 if pilot quick one second.
When Germany skilled pilots died in WII, Germany air force became a target; and in the later WII, Japanese air force become suicide attack bomb.

Buddy F-22 is totaly a different ball game....No matter how good pilot is but still it needs to see the enemy jet in its radar to show his skills....

 

[BordoEnes]

Walking away like a bawz!!

 

[lcloo]

Last year's exercise, J-10A locked and shoot first at J-11A/SU-27SK equiped with down graded export version Russian radar inferior to Chinese ones on J-10A, result in great score.

And if radar and other detection devices are the deciding factor in this new exercises, that simply means new Chinese radars fitted to J-11B is far superior to that of J-10A, which in turn was far superior to the Russian ones fitted on SU-27SK/J-11A. That would make J-11B a far supeior jet to most other Flankers currently in service.

All this being said, as stated by other posters, pilot skill and experience, tactic used etc can change the scenario. Example, old F-86 against new (then) F-104 in South Asian airspace, and vintage MIG-17 against US jets in Indo-China.

 

[SQ8]

The question is of interpreting results.
Please visit some Chinese forums, The J-11 pilot scored 42 kills...not the J-11 overall.
Moreover, there is no indication that these kills were made over Just J-10 units..
It was a combined unit exercise.

But with elements of one-vs-one and two-vs-two had more resemblance to a top gun type(or rather a CCS test) than anything else.

Back in CCS there have been pilots in FT-5's that would literally "plow" F-16's.
Shall that be taken as indication of a superior aircraft.

Back in Red flag.. the red force aircraft flying inferior jets would "plow" blue force.
Is that an inferior Aircraft.

Before the TOP GUN school at miranmar was shut down.. F-14 and F-18 pilots were going up against A-4's and F-16's.
Who would literally out fly them.

The F-4 was supposed to have been tested in simulations before Vietnam to score kills consistently over fighters...
Is that indicative of what happened with the migs in Vietnam?

Aircraft are rarely ever judged on just paper.. which is why No airforce buys an aircraft based on paper(or gloats about it to the degree fanboys here do).. and then just sits back with it believing it has the best weapon system and hence untouchable.

The J-10 was a nightmare for Su-27SK pilots when it first came out.. Moreover, the pilots that flew the J-10 units were selected from the best in the PLAAF(other going to then then J-7 and J-8 units)
Eventually the J-11 units in training were taught better tactics, better BVR and WVR skills.. and like this particular unit where pilots have figured out how to fly and fight with the machine.

The J-11B is still however a fearsome machine.. and is closer to the su-35BM in RCS measures..
And lets not forget.. the Su-27 series on their own are one of the best dogfighting machines flying today.. along with having a radar that can bake a cake with its power... or burn it.
Tactics evolve.. so do people.
The "Golden Helmet" competition is not like Red Flag though.. it is inspired from the PAF CCS course.