Chinese Agriculture and why it did not have an industrial revolution

[Kolaps]

British was just know how to copy and improve China system.

But later claimed as 100% theirs.

Then Christian KMT and CCP, hunted down all Chinese who refuse that idea of superior European and inferior Chinese.

 

[Kolaps]

I disagree with the high level equilibrium explanation. The Chinese economy was always large and had cheap labor - but didn't stop technological innovation before, due to the threats from external invaders (Europeans and northern nomads during the Ming, and northern nomads during the Song) and new ideas/products brought in by traders. In my guess, what really put an end to technological innovation during the Qing was the final conquest of the remaining northern nomads, the stabilization of the tribute system and the settlement of the border with the Russian Empire. There was no longer any motive, economic, diplomatic or military, for innovation.

I do not think that this phenomena will occur again - today's northern nomads are simply replaced by the rest of the world, and global economic competition has made it such that you can't stop innovating, or you'll fall behind. The Mongols are at the gates (mentally), permanently, and that sort of pressure - the desperate drive to survive - will ensure Chinese moves innovation forward.

Qing court look down and fear the weapon technology advancement as Han people probably will use it to revolt against them.

They want to monopoly military advantages of Manchu for mastering bow and cavalry, never let non-Manchu gain access to better and easy to use weapon. That is why they banned Han gunpowder weapon too.

Manchu was so great in their army, that none European powers able to colonize China before 19th century, as before that, gunpowder weapon was not yet advanced enough against Manchu army. As well as their advantages in navy too.


In the first 200 years, I don't think Qing dynasty fall behind Europe. Their success, was inspiring European power to learn and copy anything from China. The first European country who did that, gained advantages over other inferior European countries. British was smart enough to copy Qing economy system.

When British did it, Qing entered the disorganized and corrupt period of their last 100 years. If Qing at the time orderly enough, they will able to reform and import European ideas to keep them ahead.

 

[STEVEN囧]

Welcome to Heilongjiang Province Farm in the northeast of China.

 

[cnleio]

Welcome to Heilongjiang Province Farm in the northeast of China.

Beautiful farms ! Without Industry Revolution China, we never saw such pics in Chinese history.

Industry Revolution make China Agriculture STRONG, not stupid Confucian or ignorant King.

 

[magic-007]

Beautiful farms ! Without Industry Revolution China, we never saw such pics in Chinese history.

Industry Revolution make China Agriculture STRONG, not stupid Confucian or ignorant King.

Buddy, one swallow does not make a summer make . Confucian is still so useful from whole.
拉屎拉到裤子去了，不能怪茅坑，是吧？ 呵呵

 

[Kolaps]

Beautiful farms ! Without Industry Revolution China, we never saw such pics in Chinese history.

Industry Revolution make China Agriculture STRONG, not stupid Confucian or ignorant King.

Dude, Confucianism is the ideology behind modern world.

Without Confucianism, Europe will still stuck in Medieval era with their Christianity.


Thanks to Confucianism, China agriculture was the world greatest at their era. European imported and improved Chinese agriculture system.

If your stupid ancestor was not too busy with anti-Confucianism and pro-Communism, China will not as low as today!

Thanks to Deng's liberation from communism, China back again to his root, Confucianism!

Buddy, one swallow does not make a summer make . Confucian is still so useful from whole.
拉屎拉到裤子去了，不能怪茅坑，是吧？ 呵呵

It's not just "still useful", but SUPERIOR even today!

 

[cnleio]

Buddy, one swallow does not make a summer make . Confucian is still so useful from whole.
拉屎拉到裤子去了，不能怪茅坑，是吧？ 呵呵

孔夫子的中庸之道，在西方列强坚船利炮之前，一毛不值！
Confucian can not save Modern China, can not against Warships & Guns from the West. Just make urself feel Good in heart, not suitable for this Competitive World.

 

[Kolaps]

孔夫子的中庸之道，在西方列强坚船利炮之前，一毛不值！
Confucian can not save Modern China, can not against Warships & Guns from the West. Just make urself feel Good in heart, not suitable for this Competitive World.

Read Real History plz!

Qing had manage to keep China from being colonized like India for hundreds of years.

If you can criticize a human mistake of Confucian follower, and call to abandon it completely.

Then why you can't do the same thing with Communism, who did even far bigger mistake, not in human error, but systematically.

You are not different with HK young student fanatic protester who blindly demand democracy, don't you think so? They can't see Confucianism play a huge role in HK success, but democracy (even HK in British era, democracy was not exist there).

 

[magic-007]

孔夫子的中庸之道，在西方列强坚船利炮之前，一毛不值！
Confucian can not save Modern China, can not against Warships & Guns from the West. Just make urself feel Good in heart, not suitable for this Competitive World.

Confucian is not a panacea ,but is a wisdom philosophy. you ascribe Modern china's failure to confucian, the point of view is certainly not right .
清朝皇帝把儒家学死了。

 

[jkroo]

孔夫子的中庸之道，在西方列强坚船利炮之前，一毛不值！
Confucian can not save Modern China, can not against Warships & Guns from the West. Just make urself feel Good in heart, not suitable for this Competitive World.

Buddy, go to study YiJing（易经）please. You can choose to read the version with the explaination of professor 曾仕强.
It's really good for everyone.
It's not about military, it is related to philosophy and culture and I think it's really superior.

 

[Zsari]

Plus manpower may not explain everything. You aren't going to beat a heavy train in a 100 mile race or a steamboat down the river no matter how many men you have.

Early steam engine aren't that powerful.

You are forgetting Europe natural advantage. There's good reason why the steam engine is found in England where there's an abundant amount of dirt cheap coal (because the early steam engine is very inefficient) and natural barrier that can protect advancement from 'natural disaster' (Mongol) that can wipe out everything.

Naaa, China has an abundance of dirt cheap coal, one of the reason it is still heavily relying on coal even today being the biggest producer of coal in the world. Chinese has been surface mining and using coal since the bronze age, by the Song dynasty, Chinese not only have been mining for coal, but drilling for oil as well. It is the definitely not the energy source or the lack of that's been the stumble block for the development of steam engine.

 

[DarkElf]

Naaa, China has an abundance of dirt cheap coal, one of the reason it is still heavily relying on coal even today being the biggest producer of coal in the world. Chinese has been surface mining and using coal since the bronze age, by the Song dynasty, Chinese not only have been mining for coal, but drilling for oil as well. It is the definitely not the energy source or the lack of that's been the stumble block for the development of steam engine.

But not if we compare to Europe especially England coal at that time. England coal is easier to mine, near populations center and river. If you goggle it, plenty thesis/report/paper about early Industrial revolution usually list England's coal field location and access as one of England major advantage compare to China.

 

[Tang Yi]

The biggest problem with Chinese agriculture is the tiny plots allotted to each farmer. The revenue from small plots is miniscule and running such farms is very inefficient. A 2 acre plot really doesnt need large tillers, threshers and mowers - a family armed with spades, straw hats and gumboots can too easily run a tiny plot but stay poor and barely self sufficient.

In the U.S where a small farmer might run a 400 acre plot, heavy machines makes them very efficient. Ive seen videos of orange picking machines run by one dude that can harvest 1,000,000 oranges in a day!

Here in Australia I live on a 5 acre plot but we dont farm anything. I do small time gardening on my days off and sometimes at night after work. I cant imagine making a living farming on my property!

hey, man. do not ignore that "The social system need to meet the current facts."

merger of land is dangerous. mostly "serious Land annexation" is in the reason of each chinese dynasty's termination. if there are 10 peasants, they are not rich, but they still can feed themselves. if you change this situation to 1 farmer, 9 worker. rebellion would come when the crisis come, either economic or natural disaster.

nowadays China have less than only 300 millions acres farmland, but have more than 800 millions peasants of land property, if the majority of them lost their land(despite the reason is legal or illegal), the society situation shall become a active volcano, because they totally become proletarian，the most dangerous section in society. though nowadays mostly the youngs and the middle ages are out of rural and became city worker for higher income, but their income in cities is only enough to make them rich in rural, but not fit the high-consumption in cities. if they lost land, they are the poorest people in city, buying the cheapest products. they can only live a hopeless life, and this is only in the good economy situation period. if the economy crash down, they have to choose dying in hunger or becoming armed mobster, destroy the society and rebuild a new one(mostly, the new one was not better than the old one), like the most situation in Chinese history.

China can not allow that merger of land because of its huge population, Chinese proletarian would alway like to become mob army man than dying as slaves as Indian Dalit. China government can only develop the rural in the bottom of keeping peasants' land ownership.