China’s Worst Nightmare ‘QUAD’ Becoming A Reality

[kris]

Chinese are already building support in Thailand to begin construction of a canal through Thailand’s south. If it becomes a base for the PLAN, it would complete the string of pearls around India.

while India could counter this by building up on nearby islands it controls, as the article states, it would spread the Indian navy thinner and more vulnerable to being overwhelmed by Chinese reinforcements through the canal.

India’s budget and industrial capacity can not keep up with China’s.

www.hellenicshippingnews.com/china-backed-thai-canal-potential-next-front-in-india-china-conflict/amp/

The channel you are talking about is almost stalled now...

Srilanka officially calling Hambantota port fiasco a mistake effectively dented chinese string of pearls concept..

Pn&CN lacks enough numbers as on date to challange IN in ior

 

[Chakar The Great]

Okay.

 

[FuturePAF]

The channel you are talking about is almost stalled now...

Srilanka officially calling Hambantota port fiasco a mistake effectively dented chinese string of pearls concept..

Pn&CN lacks enough numbers as on date to challange IN in ior

The article is from a few days ago. If China has the money and is able to convince the government in Thailand, then we not see any indications of construction until they begin.

Mistake or not, China has a port in Sri Lanka basically sold to it by a previous government.
Finally if numbers are the issue, then it is only a matter of time before China is able to build up enough ships to operate in the IOR. Besides, India is not as much of a major threat to China as India would like to portray. India is more of a nuisance to China. Should India make a long term commitment of resources to challenge China in the seas near China, China can more then easily build up a fleet (a few carriers, LHD, destroyers, submarines, etc) for the IOR if it’s SLOCs are threatened by an India acting too big for its britches. China has that much industrial capacity and India does not.

P.S. it may take 5-10 years for China to build up such a force if it decides to do so, as it likes to be methodical and not emotional about such issues, but once it does, Indian SLOCs will be in China’s crosshairs.

 

[CrazyZ]

The channel you are talking about is almost stalled now...

Srilanka officially calling Hambantota port fiasco a mistake effectively dented chinese string of pearls concept..

Pn&CN lacks enough numbers as on date to challange IN in ior

We no longer live in the days of Nelson. Large fleets of large surface vessels aren't the only threats in the oceans in this day and era.

 

[Jackdaws]

India was very much interested in trying to defeat the Taliban..... it just wanted the Americans/Australians and do all the hard work. It's the Americans who should ask themselves....what has India done for us?

Other then build libraries.

Pakistan's goals were to defeat Al-Qaeda and later TTP/ISIS-K. We helped the USA defeat Al-Qaeda. We defeated TTP on our own with little help from the "Quad" or NATO.

India was interested in defeating the Taliban. The whole world was. You literally declared war on Taliban. Why lie?

 

[kris]

The article is from a few days ago. If China has the money and is able to convince the government in Thailand, then we not see any indications of construction until they begin.

Mistake or not, China has a port in Sri Lanka basically sold to it by a previous government.
Finally if numbers are the issue, then it is only a matter of time before China is able to build up enough ships to operate in the IOR. Besides, India is not as much of a major threat to China as India would like to portray. India is more of a nuisance to China. Should India make a long term commitment of resources to challenge China in the seas near China, China can more then easily build up a fleet (a few carriers, LHD, destroyers, submarines, etc) for the IOR if it’s SLOCs are threatened by an India acting too big for its britches. China has that much industrial capacity and India does not.

P.S. it may take 5-10 years for China to build up such a force if it decides to do so, as it likes to be methodical and not emotional about such issues, but once it does, Indian SLOCs will be in China’s crosshairs.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...JEAc&usg=AOvVaw0SjnUaTY9sGrTDdNKFUh2f&ampcf=1

[/URL]

Enough of cheer leadership

 

[FuturePAF]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...JEAc&usg=AOvVaw0SjnUaTY9sGrTDdNKFUh2f&ampcf=1

[/URL]

Enough of cheer leadership

1. The source you posted is an Indian “news” channel, while I posted from a Greek shipping source; Greece being the #1 shipping nation in the world. That tv channel needs to be taken with a huge pinch of salt, while the Greeks are a more neutral source.

2. Maybe the canal will be built maybe it won’t. Maybe it will take some time before the politics make it worthwhile for both sides. The point is, China is building up its navy to defend its shipping in the even its SLOCs become contested. It has ports along the way to call at for refueling, the canal would just be icing on the cake.

3. India moving into the South China Sea only motivates China to move into the IOR in a similar manner.

 

[kris]

We no longer live in the days of Nelson. Large fleets of large surface vessels aren't the only threats in the oceans in this day and era.

So??

1. The source you posted is an Indian “news” channel, while I posted from a Greek shipping source; Greece being the #1 shipping nation in the world. That tv channel needs to be taken with a huge pinch of salt, while the Greeks are a more neutral source.

2. Maybe the canal will be built maybe it won’t. Maybe it will take some time before the politics make it worthwhile for both sides. The point is, China is building up its navy to defend its shipping in the even its SLOCs become contested. It has ports along the way to call at for refueling, the canal would just be icing on the cake.

3. India moving into the South China Sea only motivates China to move into the IOR in a similar manner.

Thailand Takes a Step Back From Kra Canal Proposal

Thailand is now examining ground transport alternatives to a proposed 60-mile-long canal across the...

www.maritime-executive.com

Building vessels alone isn't of much help. Supply lines are the key. Barring gwadar they have '0' support systems around ior

 

[CrazyZ]

So??

Thailand Takes a Step Back From Kra Canal Proposal

Thailand is now examining ground transport alternatives to a proposed 60-mile-long canal across the...

www.maritime-executive.com

Building vessels alone isn't of much help. Supply lines are the key. Barring gwadar they have '0' support systems around ior

Take a look at the map. We don't need to dominate the IOR, just the N Arabian Sea to have impact. Its our backyard.

 

[CrazyZ]

Breaking News...Quad sending reinforcements to the LAC.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Pakistan already finds itself in a tough situation trying to balance China and the rest of the world. Fortunately for you and your countrymen who think like you, your think tanks are obviously smarter than you are and will try to maintain this balance. Pakistan cannot afford to be in the Chinese camp alone.

What is your definition of "balancing" between China and America? If you are living in some delusion that Pakistan, under American pressure will not allow China access to Arabian Sea, that basically defeat the whole idea of the CPEC, a non sensical assumption by India and its think tanks. Even America understand that the boat has sailed a long time ago when America decided to make India its a strategic partner at the expense of Pakistan.

Its such a silly narrative that Pakistan cannot be in Chinese camp. Those who just wake up to geopolitics, do not know that Pakistan China strategic partnership is very documented historical fact, decades before China become the super power it is now. Our relationship is similar to what America and Israel enjoy.

 

[Tair-Lahoti]

US-led NATO-like alliance not reliable for India in border talks with China: experts


Experts warned that instead of relying on the US to pressure China or playing geopolitical games, India should focus on solving border disputes by negotiating with China.

On Monday, China slammed Indian troops for crossing the Line of Actual Control (LAC) near the south bank of Pangong Lake on Monday, which severely violated the consensus reached by the two sides.

The same day, during talks with former US ambassador to India Richard Rahul Verma at the US-India Strategic Partnership Forum, US Deputy Secretary of State Stephen Biegun said the US aims to formalize closer Indo-Pacific defense relations with India, Japan and Australia - also known as "the Quad" - into a NATO-like alliance.

Chinese military analysts said that the US effort to form a NATO-like group against China is part of its Indo-Pacific strategy and an attempt to put its failing island chain strategy together.

In July, the four countries conducted naval drills near China - the US and India in the Indian Ocean, and the US, Japan and Australia in the Philippine Sea, each featuring a US aircraft carrier.

These kinds of drills could put pressure on China, and should not come as a surprise if the four countries conduct more, analysts said. The US could use Japan and Australia as a frontline and advance bases, which can also offer logistical support, they said, noting that the four countries could also share intelligence on Chinese military activities.

Beijing-based naval expert Li Jie told the Global Times on Tuesday that the countries, particularly India, could attempt to lock the Strait of Malacca down, targeting China's oil and natural gas supplies, should a military conflict break out between China and India.

US-led NATO-like alliance not reliable for India in border talks with China: experts - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

 

[Tair-Lahoti]

India gains nothing from an ‘Asian NATO’
M K Bhadrakumar is a former Indian diplomat.
If you are of two minds about the foreign-policy orientations of the Indian government, what do you do? Answer: Read the lips of US State Department officials. They will give you the authoritative account of what India’s secretive foreign policy elites are up to.
At any rate, do not allow yourself to be misled by what Indian External Affairs Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar says from time to time. I have come to this bitter assessment after reading the stunning remarks by US Deputy Secretary of State Stephen Biegun on August 31 in an online discussion organized by the US-India Strategic Partnership Forum.
They were fairly lengthy remarks – thoughtful, well structured and quite obviously premeditated.
Biegun, incidentally, is not an “India hand,” although he’s the No 2 official in the US State Department and is an American businessman and accomplished Russian-speaking diplomat who has been a staffer on the National Security Council in the George W Bush administration and the US special representative for North Korea in the Donald Trump administration.

US Deputy Secretary of State Stephen Biegun Photo: AFP/Petras Malukas
Biegun candidly disclosed during Monday’s remarks that the US seeks to formalize its closer defense ties with countries of the India-Pacific region – India, Japan and Australia – as something like the North Atlantic Treaty Organization with an aim to counter China.


The disclosure was well argued, conveying the distinct impression that this is work in progress.
Also read: India’s gamble on China policy looking like a bad bet
According to a report carried by the South China Morning Post, Biegun said Washington’s aim was to get the Quad grouping of the United States, Japan, Australia and India to work together as a bulwark against “a potential challenge from China … [and] to create a critical mass around the shared values and interests of those parties in a manner that attracts more countries in the Indo-Pacific and even from around the world … ultimately to align in a more structured manner.”
To quote Biegun: “The Indo-Pacific region is actually lacking in strong multilateral structures. They do not have anything of the fortitude of NATO or the European Union. The strongest institutions in Asia oftentimes are not, I think, not inclusive enough and so … there is certainly an invitation there at some point to formalize a structure like this.
“Remember, even NATO started with relatively modest expectations and a number of countries [initially] chose neutrality over NATO membership.”

Biegun added a caveat that the US would keep its ambitions for a Pacific NATO “checked,” asserting that such an alliance “will happen only if the other countries are as committed as the US.”

Special forces commandos conduct fast-roping from a Blackhawk helicopter aboard HMAS Kanimbla in the Arafura Sea off Darwin. Photo: AFP/Darren Hilder
But he added that the Quad grouping is expected to meet in New Delhi this autumn and cited Australia’s possible participation in India’s forthcoming Malabar naval exercise as an example of progress towards a formal defense bloc.
Biegun noted that the US wants to see Vietnam, South Korea and New Zealand eventually join an expanded version of the Quad, citing the “very cooperative” meetings of the grouping of four countries with officials from these nations regarding the response to the Covid-19 pandemic.
He added that the meetings among senior-level officials of the seven nations were “incredibly productive discussions among very cooperative partners, and one that we should look at to see a natural grouping of countries that really will do their very best to advance this combination of interests.”
Curiously, Jaishankar participated in this online discussion, but what Biegun said is diametrically opposite to what we are used to hearing from Jaishankar – namely, that India has no bloc mentality, the Quad is not directed against any country and that India intends to pursue independent foreign policies.

Has Jaishankar been deliberately misleading the Indian public? Indeed, some profound issues arise here. The conspiracy of silence on the part of the government suggests that a systematic hijacking of India to a military alliance with the US has been in progress for a while. Specifically, it predates India’s current military stand-off with China.
The stand-off with China provides a justification for the government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi to unveil its real agenda – just the alibi the Indian foreign-policy establishment would need to transform the Quad openly into an “Asian NATO.” It’s a deeply worrying thought.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s Singapore address was worth noting. Photo: AFP
Not too long ago, on June 1, 2018, Modi delivered a keynote address at the Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore, eloquently espousing the ABCs of India’s policies in the Asia-Pacific region. It was a stirring speech, almost “Nehruvian” in its originality and vision. Let me quote some excerpts:
“The Indo-Pacific is a natural region. It is also home to a vast array of global opportunities and challenges … Today, we are being called to rise above divisions and competition to work together … Inclusiveness, openness and ASEAN centrality and unity, therefore, lie at the heart of the new Indo-Pacific.
“India does not see the Indo-Pacific region as a strategy or as a club of limited members. Nor as a grouping that seeks to dominate. And by no means do we consider it as directed against any country. A geographical definition, as such, cannot be.

“India’s vision for the Indo-Pacific Region is, therefore, a positive one … It stands for a free, open, inclusive region, which embraces us all in a common pursuit of progress and prosperity. It includes all nations in this geography as also others beyond who have a stake in it.
“Southeast Asia is at its center. And ASEAN has been and will be central to its future. That is the vision that will always guide India, as we seek to cooperate for an architecture for peace and security in this region. Asia of rivalry will hold us all back. Asia of cooperation will shape this century.
“We are inheritors of Vedanta philosophy that believes in essential oneness of all, and celebrates unity in diversity एकम स यम, व ाः बहदावद त (Truth is one, the learned speak of it in many ways). That is the foundation of our civilizational ethos – of pluralism, co-existence, open-ness and dialogue.”

Asean flags fly in the breeze. Photo: iStock
It is improbable that Modi can improve upon his Shangri-La speech espousing the great inclusiveness of India’s worldview, the centrality it attaches to the Association of Southeast Asian Nations and the values of pluralism and co-existence that it cherishes. Yet, in two years’ time, that visionary speech has landed in the dustbin. Was it a vacuous speech?
Great nations do not do such flip-flops on the world stage when it comes to the moorings of their beliefs and ethos. Can it be that Modi is blissfully unaware that his foreign minister is planning to host a Quad ministerial in Delhi this autumn as the foreplay to creating an “Asian NATO”?
The Modi government has removed India’s chastity belt and is readying it to be another concubine in the superpower’s harem. Modern history tells us that the Americans are simply incapable of having equal relationships. How come the ruling elite have so quickly forgotten India’s colonial history?
The strangest part is that India’s ruling Bharatiya Janata Party, which wears nationalism on its sleeve, is so eagerly stepping forward on to a turf where ASEAN fears to tread.
This article was produced in partnership by Indian Punchline and Globetrotter, a project of the Independent Media Institute, which provided it to Asia Times.

 

[ziaulislam]

World is going polar but polarization is notbin interest of anyone ..so all pushes to polarization will be resisted both in china and elsewhere ...
Now thats not true for india
Indians elite wants protectionalizm so they can milk the indian market dry..

 

[kris]

Take a look at the map. We don't need to dominate the IOR, just the N Arabian Sea to have impact. Its our backyard.

With what exactly??
A coastguard navy??