China's role in Venezuela's downfall

[SorryNotSorry]

Source link:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw7cENup3wA

 

[Menthol]

I think Chinese media already gave a warning about Venezuela... At the time Venezuela economy was on the peak, with high oil prices. There's no any sign about Venezuela will collapse years after that.

It said how dangerous the populist kind of government, that China should not follow it. It also said about the economy too, that how the populist government made a popular economy policies, that will lead into the downfall of the country.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

I think Chinese media already gave a warning about Venezuela... At the time Venezuela economy was on the peak, with high oil prices. There's no any sign about Venezuela will collapse years after that.

It said how dangerous the populist kind of government, that China should not follow it. It also said about the economy too, that how the populist government made a popular economy policies, that will lead into the downfall of the country.

Maybe the Chinese media did but not the Chinese government. They happily did loans for oil. There are nice pictures of Xi shaking hands with Chavez over them. When Chavez died China worried the oil would be cutoff...however Maduro assured them things would remain the same. Now things are a mess as Venezuela squandered the loan money. Now their gold reserves are shrinking as they try to pay back the loans leaving them with nothing. Venezuela is back to being a dirt poor 3rd world country heavily in debt.

 

[Menthol]

Maybe the Chinese media did but not the Chinese government. They happily did loans for oil. There are nice pictures of Xi shaking hands with Chavez over them. When Chavez died China worried the oil would be cutoff...however Maduro assured them things would remain the same. Now things are a mess as Venezuela squandered the loan money. Now their gold reserves are shrinking as they try to pay back the loans leaving them with nothing. Venezuela is back to being a dirt poor 3rd world country heavily in debt.

Some EU countries have a lavish socialist program, should China stop trade with them?

Of course not.

And if one day these countries collapse, definitely not because of China.

 

[mike2000 is back]

And if one day these countries collapse, definitely not because of China.

I agree 100%. I still don't understand why some people blame a foreign country for their misery. A country's leadership and public always have a responsibility towards their country/people not a foriegn power(who is obviously after its own interests). So if they failed it's because of their own shortfalls/faults not the fault of a foriegn country. The blame should first be on that country and its leadership first and foremost. Everything else is secondary.
So China can't be blamed for Venezuela's leaders incompetence just like Iran/Russia can't be blamed for Assad's brutality/killing of his own people to stay in power etc.

 

[Navin A]

Happening with Sri lanka, A lot of African nations and soon, Pakistan!

but what to do, the Pakistani's wont wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

I agree 100%. I still don't understand why some people blame a foreign country for their misery. A country's leadership and public always have a responsibility towards their country/people not a foriegn power(who is obviously after its own interests). So if they failed it's because of their own shortfalls/faults not the fault of a foriegn country. The blame should first be on that country and its leadership first and foremost. Everything else is secondary.
So China can't be blamed for Venezuela's leaders incompetence.

The reason it can be is because this has all happened before in the past. In the 1970's South American countries leveraged the future sale of oil at high prices to obtain Billions in loans for modernization. I think it was around $350Billion. Oil prices sank and they started defaulting. In the end US banks forgave much of their loans to avoid a complete panic.

30 years later (~2007) when Chavez saw oil prices high he did the exact same thing countries did back in the 1970's. This time he cut a deal with the Chinese. Critics of course called him a moron saying he apparently doesn't understand history and would destroy his country. Chavez of course called the US "the Devil" and basically said we just didn't want to see his country become "great under Socialism". Nobody listened and sure enough oil fell and now history has repeated itself. Venezuela used to have the best economy in South America...now it is a zoo...just like when things hit the fan in the 1980's in South America.

The question is will China write off the loans or squeeze them dry.

 

[Finer]

Happening with Sri lanka, A lot of African nations and soon, Pakistan!

but what to do, the Pakistani's wont wake up and smell the coffee.

Pakistan was already in debt when they started with China for CPEC. It is all about managing the resource wisely. Unlike others, Pakistan has been using the resource wisely, and from the day one, Pakistan managed to generate some turnover in CPEC. Even metro projects from China have been successfully financially.

Because of CPEC, it puts Pakistan on the map, and bridge Iran/Russia and Central Asia [North] closer with Pakistan more than ever. It is historical decisive that is making inroad for Pakistan to emerge as growing economical nation now.

This is Pakistan with no oil pipeline managed to succeed whereas for the nations with oil pipelines and its execution is anything but the calculated. It is not shocker to see the result. Much like demonetization to undermine the stable economy without calculating all the probable factors that could compromise the position of stable economy.

 

[wiseone2]

Because of CPEC, it puts Pakistan on the map, and bridge Iran/Russia and Central Asia [North] closer with Pakistan more than ever. It is historical decisive that is making inroad for Pakistan to emerge as growing economical nation now.

While CPEC can be a positive I am not sure of the connectivity. what is Russia going to export via CPEC ?

 

[Navin A]

Here is a anther example of a country struggling to payback China's unrealistic loans.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1061890.shtml

Including the borrowing needed to finance several infrastructural projects, Uganda's external and domestic public debt amounted to $8.7 billion as of December 31, 2016, equivalent to 33.8 percent of the country's GDP. But public debt is believed to be sustainable over the medium to long term, according to Uganda's debt sustainability analysis report for 2015-2016.

http://www.newvision.co.ug/new_vision/news/1451432/uganda-china-debt-relationship-sustainable

This implies that if Uganda does not comply with the debt obligations, the country is likely to undergo debt distress in the near future, given the fall in GDP growth from 7.3% between 2000 and 2010, to an average of about 5% , low foreign earnings, unstable exchange rates among other macro-economic constraints.

More so the 10th Parliament has passed about 10 loans in its short period and about five loans are currently under considerations.

However, according to the Auditor General’s report (Dec 2016), challenges in utilisation and absorption of externally acquired loans like low disbursement rate, increasing commitment fees, delayed execution of projects etc. were cited which are likely to raise the debt burden for ordinary Ugandans.

 

[Jlaw]

The reason it can be is because this has all happened before in the past. In the 1970's South American countries leveraged the future sale of oil at high prices to obtain Billions in loans for modernization. I think it was around $350Billion. Oil prices sank and they started defaulting. In the end US banks forgave much of their loans to avoid a complete panic.

30 years later (~2007) when Chavez saw oil prices high he did the exact same thing countries did back in the 1970's. This time he cut a deal with the Chinese. Crtics of course called him a moron saying he apparently doesn't understand history and would destroy his country. Chavez of course called the US "the Devil" and basically said we just didn't want to see his country become "great under Socialism". Nobody listened and sure enough oil fell and now history has repeated itself. Venezuela used to have the best economy in South America...now it is a zoo...just like when things hit the fan in the 1980's in South America.

The question is will China write off the loans or squeeze them dry.

What Venezuela does with the money is their problem.

 

[Navin A]

What Venezuela does with the money is their problem.

Lol, spoken like a true loan shark! - No, the international community will question china's business conduct on the level of ethics, which it clearly lacks... Its only a time when these country gang up on you.

China will be making more enemies in surplus to the ones you already have!

 

[wiseone2]

What Venezuela does with the money is their problem.

Let us see what happens when Venezuela refuse to repay the loans back

 

[Finer]

While CPEC can be a positive I am not sure of the connectivity. what is Russia going to export via CPEC ?

As trade to the Middle East including Iran? Central Asia is already on board. And so is Iran and Turkey. For Pakistan, China-Pakistan CPEC has been beneficial so far.

Whereas for India, India relies on the common goods including the medical accessories and the flag of India as well as firecrackers for the celebration of India/Diwali from China. If anything, India money is going straight to China which returns the favor to Pakistan through CPEC.

One stone, two birds.

 

[wiseone2]

As trade to the Middle East including Iran? Central Asia is already on board. And so is Iran and Turkey. For Pakistan, China-Pakistan CPEC has been beneficial so far.

Whereas for India, India relies on the common goods including the medical accessories and the flag of India as well as firecrackers for the celebration of India/Diwali from China. If anything, India money is going straight to China which returns the favor to Pakistan through CPEC.

One stone, two birds.

No cargo ship from pakistan will be coming to India
you dodged the original question - what is Russia going to ship on the CPEC route ?