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China’s Nuclear Submarines Are Less Than Advertised

Lil Mathew

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Nuclear submarines have been a favorite tool of the Chinese regime’s state-run media recently when trumpeting China’s military strength or threatening the West. Yet, despite the noise China makes about its nuclear submarines, they’re not all they’re cracked up to be.
The U.S. Navy’s top admiral, Jonathan Greenert, was asked about a recent article in China’s state-run Global Times, which claimed China’s submarines could kill 5 million to 12 million Americans with nuclear missiles. Greenert pointed out several key flaws in China’s submarines.
“For a submarine-launched ballistic missile to be effective it has to be accurate, and you have to be stealthy, and survivable and I’ll leave it at that,” Greenert said, during the Nov. 16 Reagan National Defense Forum, The Washington Free Beacon reported.
The Global Times report included a map of the United States complete with targets for nuclear attacks on major cities including Seattle, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. The report followed a segment from China’s state-run CCTV News Network in late October that showed off China’s submarine fleet, in light of China’s territorial disputes in the South China Sea and East China Sea.
Stealth
Yet, Greenert’s comments are well grounded. China’s nuclear submarines have several technical flaws, limits caused by geography, and the deployment of its next-generation fleet has faced several setbacks. This is in addition to the fact that the United States has complex systems capable of monitoring submarines much more advanced than what China can produce.
China’s main nuclear-powered ballistic missile (SSBN) submarine is the Jin-class (Type 094). Three of them are currently operational, and China may have five more in service over the next decade, according to the Pentagon’s 2013 annual report, “Military and Security Developments Involving the People’s Republic of China.”
Despite being China’s most advanced submarines, the Jin-class subs are louder than Soviet submarines from 30 years ago, according to an August 2009 report from U.S. Navy’s Office of Naval Intelligence.
Anti-submarine warfare is based heavily on a nation’s ability to detect and track submarines. The main system the United States uses to track submarines is the Sound Surveillance System (SOSUS), which is part of the Integrated Undersea Surveillance System (IUSS).
SOSUS consists of a large network of undersea sensors installed at choke points in the ocean. It allows the United States to detect submarines and track them based on their noise signatures. It was used during the Cold War to track Soviet SSBNs.
Stealth is one of the key benefits of a submarine force, and controlling noise level is key for achieving stealth. Reducing the level of noise is among the key reasons why submarines are moving from diesel power to nuclear power, and why modern fleets have other advanced technologies for noise dampening.
The majority of China’s submarine fleet is still diesel powered, most of the submarines were purchased from Russia in the 1990s and 2000s, according to the Pentagon report. It is estimated to have 49 diesel submarines and 5 nuclear submarines.
Range

The other problem with the Jin-class submarines is attack range—and this is affected both by technology and geography.
The Jin-class submarines will eventually be armed with China’s JL-2 submarine launched ballistic missile, according to the Pentagon report. The nuclear missiles have an estimated range of 4,600 miles, and are expected to reach operational capability this year.
If a Chinese Jin-class submarine were to target Seattle, it would have to sail deep into Japanese waters, according to a report by Hans Kristensen, director of the Nuclear Information Project at the Federation of American Scientists.
The report states, “Due to the apparent noise level of Chinese missile submarines and the extensive anti-submarine capabilities of the United States that would indeed be risky sailing in a war.”
The other option for the Chinese nuclear submarines would be to fire their missiles over Russia. The report notes, “All China’s ICBMs [inter-continental ballistic missiles] launched at the United States from their current deployment areas would overfly Russia.”
China’s nuclear submarines are confined to a small area around China, and the range of its nuclear missiles is limited. According to the report, if they were to even target Hawaii, the submarines would need to enter the Sea of Japan or the Philippine Sea.
It does state, however, that China’s nuclear-armed subs pose a threat to U.S. territories outside the continental United States, including Alaska and Guam. They are also a threat to U.S. warships in the region.
Keeping Chinese nuclear-submarines out of range from the continental United States relies on keeping them within China’s waters.
China is also developing its next-generation SSBN, the Type-096, which according to a forthcoming report from the U.S.–China Economic and Security Review Commission is expected to “improve the range, mobility, stealth, and lethality” of China’s nuclear subs, Defense News reported.

China’s Nuclear Submarines Are Less Than Advertised » The Epoch Times
 
As long as the Chinese subs can scare the Indian submariners enough to wear adult diapers, it is good enough.

If it is silent enough for the US Navy, it is good enough.

Chinese submarine stalks the USS Kitty Hawk "undetected"

Nov 13, 2006

(Read the whole story in the Washington Times, click "here")

A Chinese submarine stalked a U.S. aircraft carrier battle group in the Pacific last month and surfaced within firing range of its torpedoes and missiles before being detected, The Washington Times has learned.

The surprise encounter highlights China’s continuing efforts to prepare for a future conflict with the U.S., despite Pentagon efforts to try to boost relations with Beijing’s communist-ruled military.

The submarine encounter with the USS Kitty Hawk and its accompanying warships also is an embarrassment to the commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific, Adm. William J. Fallon, who is engaged in an ambitious military exchange program with China aimed at improving relations between the two nations’ militaries.

According to the defense officials, the Chinese Song-class diesel-powered attack submarine shadowed the Kitty Hawk undetected and surfaced within five miles of the carrier Oct. 26.
 
Despite being China’s most advanced submarines, the Jin-class subs are louder than Soviet submarines from 30 years ago, according to an August 2009 report from U.S. Navy’s Office of Naval Intelligence.

I'd like to know where he's getting his intelligence on this. Type 052D destroyer is one of the best in the world. Chinese subs are expected to be top notch as well. Subs are easier to hide than destroyers. With Type 052D, it's obvious it's got huge AESAs, Goalkeeper like CIWS, RAM like CIWS, huge universal VLS cells etc. Just about the only thing you can't see with Type 052D is its sonar, which is expected to be extremely advanced. Subs are easy to hide. You can't see anything about Chinese subs. Admiral Muller visited a Type 041 sub in 2011. He can testify his experience on it. China can send a nuke battery powered rover onto the Moon and dive its Jiaolong science subs to the depth of the Mariana Trench. Therefore, China can't be very bad with its naval subs. Subs are pretty ancient technology. Even in WW1 subs were pretty common weapons.
 
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As long as the Chinese subs can scare the Indian submariners enough to wear adult diapers, it is good enough.

If it is silent enough for the US Navy, it is good enough.

Chinese submarine stalks the USS Kitty Hawk "undetected"

Nov 13, 2006

(Read the whole story in the Washington Times, click "here")

A Chinese submarine stalked a U.S. aircraft carrier battle group in the Pacific last month and surfaced within firing range of its torpedoes and missiles before being detected, The Washington Times has learned.

The surprise encounter highlights China’s continuing efforts to prepare for a future conflict with the U.S., despite Pentagon efforts to try to boost relations with Beijing’s communist-ruled military.

The submarine encounter with the USS Kitty Hawk and its accompanying warships also is an embarrassment to the commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific, Adm. William J. Fallon, who is engaged in an ambitious military exchange program with China aimed at improving relations between the two nations’ militaries.

According to the defense officials, the Chinese Song-class diesel-powered attack submarine shadowed the Kitty Hawk undetected and surfaced within five miles of the carrier Oct. 26.

Why to bring India into this ...there is a wide wide world out there and its beautiful all you have to do is open your eyes and mind.
 
it is epoch times

I am glad it is spoken from the usa military who has this knowledge while as far back as 2007 our diesel-electric powered submarine popped up for some fresh air in the yankee's CBG

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492804/The-uninvited-guest-Chinese-sub-pops-middle-U-S-Navy-exercise-leaving-military-chiefs-red-faced.htm

Why to bring India into this ...there is a wide wide world out there and its beautiful all you have to do is open your eyes and mind.

it is as if you are speaking to yourself in front of a mirror.
 
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When Miles Yu from Washington Times wrote the first article relating this, I tried to find the Global Times article indicating a Chinese official stating their subs can kill 5 to 12 million Americans.
I have yet to be able to find that article anywhere. If you have that Global Times article, post it.
Otherwise, it's bullshit.
 
Overconfident Chinese are either misleading the world with their military might or the West is misleading itself and falling into Chinese trap.

No, Chinese have no capability to attack anybody in the South China Sea. Attacking US mainland capability is decades away. Before it happens, the West would stop buying Chinese products, raise the Yuan value in relation to dollar and begin a turmoil in China without firing a shot.
 
As long as the Chinese subs can scare the Indian submariners enough to wear adult diapers, it is good enough.
If it is silent enough for the US Navy, it is good enough.


only for you...

at least 22 such “contacts” with the submarines of the People’s Liberation Army Navy [PLAN] since March 2012.

Chinese attack submarines spotted near India | Asia Pacific Defense Forum in English

even their Attack subs aren't quite enough for "Poor India"(22 contacts)..I wonder how they'll fare against USA??? :rofl:

Why to bring India into this ...there is a wide wide world out there and its beautiful all you have to do is open your eyes and mind.

he's sick..pardon him..
 
I remember quite well how much US intelligence underestimated Japanese military capability just prior to the Pacific war. They seem to be making the same old mistake with their #1 enemy China these days. China is an extremely technologically advanced country. China hides its subs very very well. When will Americans learn, that it's better to overestimate your biggest enemy than to underestimate it. - Sun Tzu
 
As long as the Chinese subs can scare the Indian submariners enough to wear adult diapers, it is good enough.
Why do you always talk like an idiot? I think I need to put out a Kojak alert to warn of trolls like you.

You're screwing up a perfectly good thread by your baloney. I don't know why you have to mention India every time. Must be due to low esteem and a deep seated inferiority complex.

Grow up!
 
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A
As long as the Chinese subs can scare the Indian submariners enough to wear adult diapers, it is good enough.

If it is silent enough for the US Navy, it is good enough.

Chinese submarine stalks the USS Kitty Hawk "undetected"

Nov 13, 2006

(Read the whole story in the Washington Times, click "here")

A Chinese submarine stalked a U.S. aircraft carrier battle group in the Pacific last month and surfaced within firing range of its torpedoes and missiles before being detected, The Washington Times has learned.

The surprise encounter highlights China’s continuing efforts to prepare for a future conflict with the U.S., despite Pentagon efforts to try to boost relations with Beijing’s communist-ruled military.

The submarine encounter with the USS Kitty Hawk and its accompanying warships also is an embarrassment to the commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific, Adm. William J. Fallon, who is engaged in an ambitious military exchange program with China aimed at improving relations between the two nations’ militaries.

According to the defense officials, the Chinese Song-class diesel-powered attack submarine shadowed the Kitty Hawk undetected and surfaced within five miles of the carrier Oct. 26.

Why the hell are you bringing us here the article is about China & USA
What the hell is your damn problem
 
All hail to US systems and all its bullshit stories. No country in this world can say we are the best in every field and even today US can't make tank engine batter then Germany and still they claim that they are the best
 
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