China's memory chip investment threatens Korea

[AndrewJin]

Yes, I know. But there is such huge development potential there that the growth cylce will last for decades.
Great times ahead of us.

Western China and Central China can easily achieve 5 trillion dollars in the coming decade respectively.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Western China and Central China can easily achieve 5 trillion dollars in the coming decade respectively.

AdrewJin, I know for a fact that Chinese government has been understating its GDP figures in order not to scare off certain people.

Despite this with the development of non costal regions, we should be able have a middle income country soon, as Prs. Xi has stated. A modestly prosper society without poverty is our goal for now.

Now the time is towards qualitative development. The second phase of development must be towards cleaner and high tech growth. The BeiJing policies are celar indication that we are going in this direction now.

When China becomes green there will be a global revolution in renewable energy and sustainable technology. What is good for China is going to be good for the world. The industrial scale will make any competition useless.

Again the time for celeberation is not here yet. Long way to go.

 

[AndrewJin]

AdrewJin, I know for a fact that Chinese government has been understating its GDP figures in order not to scare off certain people.

Despite this with the development of non costal regions, we should be able have a middle income country soon, as Prs. Xi has stated. A modestly prosper society without poverty is our goal for now.

Now the time is towards qualitative development. The second phase of development must be towards cleaner and high tech growth. The BeiJing policies are celar indication that we are going in this direction now.

When China becomes green there will be a global revolution in renewable energy and sustainable technology. What is good for China is going to be good for the world. The industrial scale will make any competition useless.

Again the time for celeberation is not here yet. Long way to go.

First half of 2016
Hubei Province, 1.41 trillion yuan, 8.2%
Sichuan Province, 1.42 trillion yuan, 7.5%
Hunan Province, 1.36 trillion yuan, 7.6%
Henan Province, 1.8 trillion yuan, 8.0%

I'd like to see these four big provinces in the interior of China become 1 trillion economy respectively within one decade.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

First half of 2016
Hubei Province, 1.41 trillion yuan, 8.2%
Sichuan Province, 1.42 trillion yuan, 7.5%
Hunan Province, 1.36 trillion yuan, 7.6%
Henan Province, 1.8 trillion yuan, 8.0%

I'd like to see these four big provinces in the interior of China become 1 trillion economy respectively within one decade.

A decade is a very realistic target. With OBOR steaming ahead...these provinces will enjoy great economic growth. Investors are already pouring in. With infrastructure development moving as planned I see no reason at all not achieve or exceed this goal.

Great things ahead.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Designing digital logic is a different problem than to design a cost effective memory chip.
You can get away with using an older process.
Designing for an older process will not get You anywhere in the Memory business.
You must also consider that products containing state subsidized electronics might get slapped with custom fees,
so maybe they can only be used for internally used products, which might be OK.

I highly doubt an older process node would be able to achieve power efficiency like this.

Look at the column on the far right (GFlops/Watt) which measures power efficiency. The higher the number, the more power efficient the computer is. There is literally nothing in the top 10 that even comes close to Sunway TaihuLight's 6.07 GFlops/Watt. I am willing to bet there are no computers on the entire Top500 list that comes close to it.

What China unveiled in June 2016 was a game changer.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

I am willing to bet there are no computers on the entire Top500 list that comes close to it.

You are wrong.
Have a look at this Green 500 List. https://www.top500.org/green500/lists/2015/11/

This list hasn't been updated, so Taihu Light is not included, but you can see that the max performance per watt is around 7 for the RIKEN system.

There is literally nothing in the top 10 that even comes close to Sunway TaihuLight's 6.07 GFlops/Watt.

This is because they are meant for different purposes. The Sunway Taihu Light machine is extremely memory light, and hence can not run some of the algorithms that require memory. For example, despite having so much raw Peak flop/s, the Sunway Taihu Light performs miserably at the HPCG Benchmark and doesn't even feature in the top 5 systems!

 

[j20blackdragon]

You are wrong.
Have a look at this Green 500 List. https://www.top500.org/green500/lists/2015/11/

This list hasn't been updated, so Taihu Light is not included, but you can see that the max performance per watt is around 7 for the RIKEN system.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

The Sunway Taihulight is a massive supercomputer at 15,371 kW of total power.

The computer you're talking about is 50.3 kW.

They are not even in the same ballpark.

Supercomputers have a tendency to become less energy efficient as they become larger. The Green 500 list has always been dominated by tiny systems.

Show me any supercomputer (a peer competitor) within the top 10, top 20, or top 100 of the current Top500 list that compares to the Sunway Taihulight in terms of energy efficiency. You won't find any.

This is because they are meant for different purposes. The Sunway Taihu Light machine is extremely memory light, and hence can not run some of the algorithms that require memory. For example, despite having so much raw Peak flop/s, the Sunway Taihu Light performs miserably at the HPCG Benchmark and doesn't even feature in the top 5 systems!

WTF? You are the most dishonest troll I've ever seen. I can't believe I have to waste time debunking your crap.

Now let me post the facts.

The Sunway TaihuLight has 1,310,720 GB (1.3 petabytes) of memory.

The Titan (most powerful US computer) has 710,144 GB of memory.

Therefore, any "algorithms" that won't run on the Sunway Taihulight due to memory won't run on any US supercomputer either. See how stupid your argument is?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

You're comparing apples to oranges.

The Sunway Taihulight is a massive supercomputer at 15,371 kW of total power.

The computer you're talking about is 50.3 kW.

View attachment 320903

They are not even in the same ballpark.

Supercomputers have a tendency to become less energy efficient as they become larger. The Green 500 list has always been dominated by tiny systems.

Show me any supercomputer (a peer competitor) within the top 10, top 20, or top 100 of the current Top500 list that compares to the Sunway Taihulight in terms of energy efficiency. You won't find any.



WTF? You are the most dishonest troll I've ever seen. I can't believe I have to waste time debunking your crap.

Now let me post the facts.

The Sunway TaihuLight has 1,310,720 GB (1.3 petabytes) of memory.

The Titan (most powerful US computer) has 710,144 GB of memory.

View attachment 320904 View attachment 320905

Therefore, any "algorithms" that won't run on the Sunway Taihulight due to memory won't run on any US supercomputer either. See how stupid your argument is?

You have 20x cores, but only 2x Memory, so Memory per core is 10%.
Depending on memory organisation, this could limit which benchmarks the machine can run.

 

[cirr]

Wed, Jul 27, 2016

Tsinghua Unigroup and XMC merging chip operations to create Chinese giant

Bloomberg

Tsinghua Unigroup Ltd (清華紫光) merged its memory chipmaking operations with the Chinese government-run XMC (武漢新芯集成電路), creating one of China’s largest manufacturers of semiconductors.

The company is folding XMC, also known as Wuhan Xinxin Semiconductor Manufacturing Corp, into its growing portfolio of assets and consolidating their combined production capacity, Tsinghua’s billionaire chairman Zhao Weiguo (趙偉國) said via e-mail.

The newly merged entity is called Changjiang Storage Co with Zhao as chairman, he said.

Tsinghua, an affiliate of the prestigious Beijing university of the same name, harbors ambitions of becoming a global player in semiconductors. It has pursued deals around the globe as the standard-bearer of China’s effort to build a local industry giant and wean the country off foreign technology. Its core business of semiconductors is seen by the nation’s political leadership as vital to national security.

The company is just one of several affiliates of state-backed Tsinghua University, the school that has produced Chinese leaders from President Xi Jinping (習近平) to his predecessor Hu Jintao (胡錦濤). Other arms include Tsinghua Unisplendour Co (清華股份有限公司) and Tsinghua Tongfang Co (清華同方).

Together they have spearheaded a spate of high-profile acquisitions in recent years. Unigroup bought RDA Microelectronics Inc and Spreadtrum Communications Inc (展訊), and came close to a potential US$23 billion bid for Micron Technology Inc.

However, it withdrew from a US$3.8 billion investment in Western Digital Corp in the face of a US security review.

Its latest target, XMC, began operations in 2008 and says it is one of the largest players in domestic semiconductors.

It has unveiled plans to participate in the building of a US$24 billion semiconductor manufacturing mega-complex that the government is establishing in its home province.

An XMC spokeswoman contacted by phone said she was not immediately able to comment.

Closely held Unigroup had sales of 52 billion yuan (US$8 billion) last year with an after-tax profit of 3.9 billion yuan, according to the company.

In its chip design business, profit came to US$200 million on sales of 13.5 billion yuan.

Its target, XMC, began operations in 2008 as a foundry for memory chip and image sensor production.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2016/07/27/2003651851

 

[j20blackdragon]

This is because they are meant for different purposes. The Sunway Taihu Light machine is extremely memory light, and hence can not run some of the algorithms that require memory. For example, despite having so much raw Peak flop/s, the Sunway Taihu Light performs miserably at the HPCG Benchmark and doesn't even feature in the top 5 systems!

Debunking the final part of your lie.

http://www.hpcg-benchmark.org/custom/index.html?lid=155&slid=288

HPCG is an alternative benchmark designed to test the memory subsystem and internal interconnect of the supercomputer. Because it is internally I/O bound (i.e. the CPU is sometimes idle during the test), HPCG testing generally achieves only a tiny fraction of the peak FLOPS of the computer.

I don't care about any of that.

I care about whether or not China can make a high-end microprocessor to counteract the Intel ban from the US. For that we measure processing power and power efficiency. Moore’s law and Dennard scaling, when combined, held that more transistors could be packed into the same space and that those transistors would use less power while operating at a higher clock speed. The Sunway Taihulight has demonstrated that by ranking #1 on the High Performance Linpack (HPL) benchmark and dominating virtually every supercomputer on the list in terms of power efficiency too.