China's infrastructure investments 'threaten its economic growth'

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

Monetary benefits and gains from infrastructure like this cannot be properly quantified and the vast majority of gains in productivity and efficiency is left out.

What does the author propose? To not build roads, sewer systems and rail because it doesnt result in hard cash back in the foreseeable future? I know of one country that under invests in infrastructure, perhaps an academic 'study' should be done to quantify the losses attributed to people late to work, open sewer systems, railways converted to latrines, shitty internet and constant blackouts.

Absurd article. Its what happens when you count every penny and cent and blind to dollars and pounds.

 

[AndrewJin]

Monetary benefits and gains from infrastructure like this cannot be properly quantified and the vast majority of gains in productivity and efficiency is left out.

What does the author propose? To not build roads, sewer systems and rail because it doesnt result in hard cash back in the foreseeable future? I know of one country that under invests in infrastructure, perhaps an academic 'study' should be done to quantify the losses attributed to people late to work, open sewer systems, railways converted to latrines, shitty internet and constant blackouts.

Absurd article. Its what happens when you count every penny and cent and blind to dollars and pounds.

You in Australia right?
Bus ticket price there increases very often to tackle the "profitability" issue...
They probably rip off more money from passengers, but I believe the society as a whole has lost big money.

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

You in Australia right?
Bus tickets there increase very often to tackle the "profitability" issue...
They probably rip off more money from passengers, but I believe the society as a whole has lost big money.

Bus and train fares arent too bad if you have a concession card but regular travelers pay a rip off fare.

On another note, we have a disproportionate number of viral videos comming out of Australia concerning racist attacks and verbal abuse on trains. Its like the public transport system is used disproportionately by bogans.

 

[powastick]

Democracies praising itself by doing nothing.

 

[AndrewJin]

Bus and train fares arent too bad if you have a concession card but regular travelers pay a rip off fare.

On another note, we have a disproportionate number of viral videos comming out of Australia concerning racist attacks and verbal abuse on trains. Its like the public transport system is used disproportionately by bogans.

I did find trains in the early morning and late night (I have tried Perth, Brisbane and Mel) kind of full of bogans, especially drunken youth. Concession is fine, but adults' full ticket price is too high.....It is driving people away from public transport...a vicious circle....especially when the urban roads are not really good.

Democracies praising itself by doing nothing.

Their leaders are more like actresses and actors.....

 

[AViet]

As the West and India understand they can never catch up with China on infrastructure, they find a new simple way to belittle China: denying the necessity of infrastructure in growth.

Soon they will deny the importance of education, science, freedom of religion, liberal values and even freedom to wear clothes, as they will keep falling behind in science and education. In addition, the much praised liberal values are coming back to bite them..

 

[Echo_419]

The media is also hyping about China's "ghost town" when they specifically chose the project which is still under construction or in the first 1-3 years of operation. In China, we always eye the future. Some project you will probably think it is underused in the first or second year, it will eventually become congested....During 1990s, we built a lot of 4-lane expressway in my province when at that time very few people owned a private car....How about now??? My province's first expressway is now famous for traffic jams and upgrading projects are everywhere....Who should be responsible for the short-sighted plan? Media? Or people influenced by the lunatic media?

Have a look at China's high-speed railways.
It's the same corporate media which sensationally uses photos of a 5am or 6am train to show how unpopular HSRs are in China....And I have read indian media intentionally used biased data, such as the ticket price in China, they only mentioned first class ticket price when first class seats account for less than 10% of a train...
@anant_s @TaiShang @cirr

Prestituation. No better word to describe it....
I hope indians would not fall in their trap....

Don't worry we have a rich in experince in this area

 

[ahojunk]

I opened up the link. Gosh, it's a 31-page pdf file.

I had a quick look at it and I gave up.

This is what comes immediately to my mind:-
---
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" the phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments.
It is also sometimes colloquially used to doubt statistics used to prove an opponent's point.
---

Honestly, tell me which country in the world does not want to have a similar high speed rail system that is found in China.

My suggestion - toss this useless and misleading report into the trash can.

If your country has the money, spend some on improving the country's infrastructure.

If your country doesn't have the money, I am sorry to say, "Money talks, bullsh*t walks".

 

[Jlaw]

The media is also hyping about China's "ghost town" when they specifically chose the project which is still under construction or in the first 1-3 years of operation. In China, we always eye the future. Some project you will probably think it is underused in the first or second year, it will eventually become congested....During 1990s, we built a lot of 4-lane expressway in my province when at that time very few people owned a private car....How about now??? My province's first expressway is now famous for traffic jams and upgrading projects are everywhere....Who should be responsible for the short-sighted plan? Media? Or people influenced by the lunatic media?

Have a look at China's high-speed railways.
It's the same corporate media which sensationally uses photos of a 5am or 6am train to show how unpopular HSRs are in China....And I have read indian media intentionally used biased data, such as the ticket price in China, they only mentioned first class ticket price when first class seats account for less than 10% of a train...
@anant_s @TaiShang @cirr

Prestituation. No better word to describe it....
I hope indians would not fall in their trap....

Please forgive the indians here. They are very shortsighted people as their politicians only have meetings to plan for another meeting. China plans for the next 50 years, which is eye-opening for the indians. after all you know their populous elected leader cannot plan too long as they most likely be out in 4 years.

 

[AndrewJin]

Please forgive the indians here. They are very shortsighted people as their politicians only have meetings to plan for another meeting. China plans for the next 50 years, which is eye-opening for the indians. after all you know their populous elected leader cannot plan too long as they most likely be out in 4 years.

@Jlaw @Shotgunner51 @TaiShang
2020 is the first of the many steps in 21st century we planned decades ago in 1970s-1980s.....
Many of those planners probably have already passed away.....

 

[Jlaw]

There are some who believe Chinese infra projects have seen a little too much investments, cost over runs being hidden , benefits over stated and in fact most are due to political benefits to elite class with migration of many folks.

Now this might be in general a western view. We do require a unbiased view from Chinese folks and from people whether they believe such a development is giving them benefit or not.

I firmly believe that govt is overplaying the investment infrastructure to continuously keep the economic engine running. The result is debt being increased and long gestation period for the project to generate enough cash back into the system. I sincerely believe the whole economy needs to move from expansion to more of re orientation of all governmental investments by emphasising on increasing efficiencies of all existing components of the economy especially the long infra projects and see how incurred debt by SEC can be reduced and make finanical position much better. And using less elaborate measures like government spending on big infra projects is a pre requisite.

But then I would still want a Chinese scholar to comment and say bcz they know about their country and economy better .. western beliefs and theory most times are colored and critical. Let's see if we hear from a inside country source.

There appears to be a lot of jealousy from Indians on PDF regarding China's infrastructures. When i read the indian sections, many indians were awed between China-India differences in infra, cleanliness , etc. It is like night and day according to some indians.

 

[ahojunk]

There appears to be a lot of jealousy from Indians on PDF regarding China's infrastructures. When i read the indian sections, many indians were awed between China-India differences in infra, cleanliness , etc. It is like night and day according to some indians.

@Jlaw ,

I don't think that's the intention of the OP.

IMO, you are making some wrong assumptions.

 

[jkroo]

I do like the seriously bullish!t.

An opinion without any models and data set to support is just an opinion and it's the very useless one.

Facts and outcomes there. Pls don't even try to find any excuses from other countries especially from China to hide the incapabiliy. There are big gaps in planning especially the long term planning and the intellectual quality for administrative management.

Consumption economics, industrial economics, regional economics and econometrics are not some journalists can explain to you guys. It's awesome that many Indian members bought it.

You see the heavy investment pour into HSR, but you don't see how many vigorous factors injected into the regional economies. Of course it is understandable for you don't have any HSR in your land.

As the reasons listed above. Pls stop bullish!ting for nothing. That's my humble suggestion.

 

[AndrewJin]

As the West and India understand they can never catch up with China on infrastructure, they find a new simple way to belittle China: denying the necessity of infrastructure in growth.

Soon they will deny the importance of education, science, freedom of religion, liberal values and even freedom to wear clothes, as they will keep falling behind in science and education. In addition, the much praised liberal values are coming back to bite them..

It's so weird, people in East Asia and the majority countries of ASEAN think so differently compared to the rest of the developing countries.....I was also impressed by the huge infra projects in Hanoi and Saigon....The infra of beach city Nha Trang is no worse than those in southern France (2012).....

@AViet

$20 for 3....and grand breakfast....
clean, safe and very affordable

 

[Jlaw]

It's so weird, people in East Asia and the majority countries of ASEAN think so differently compared to the rest of the developing countries.....I was also impressed by the huge infra projects in Hanoi and Saigon....The infra of beach city Nha Trang is no worse than those in southern France (2012).....

@AViet
View attachment 334036

$20 for 3....and grand breakfast....
clean, safe and very affordable
View attachment 334035

i will go there next time. Vietnam is becoming hots pot for Chinese tourists as price, safety and friendliness can beat any western countries hands down.