China-UK (Britain) Geopolitics and Economics: News & Discussions

[bolo]

Both Shanghai and Guangdong are quite liberal now, because the thick ice was formed in just one day.

Xi Jinping has already expressed the disappointment towards the westernization of the Chinese education system.

The minister of education need to do something about it because it's too funny that China would try to fix something that have been time tested to work.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The minister of education need to do something about it because it's too funny that China would try to fix something that have been time tested to work.

As i said, the thick ice was not just formed in one day, and Xi Jinping needs a lot of effort to purge the liberal influence in CPC, and also in the media and the minister of education.

Those 'big tigers' are behind, since those liberals are just their lapdogs.

Xi Jinping is now waging the anti-corruption war campaign against those 'big tigers'.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Western education is affixed in PBL format , which is contrary to East Asian teaching standard , which focuses more on direct hard-line memorization. Tho there are strengths in PBL format, I believe that the hard-line memorization of subjects and concepts is perfect for long term embedding and serves students. Even in the United States , public education schools now focus on a "Common Core" methodology, which, in my opinion, grossly destroys qualitative learning.

Maybe Japanese schools are based on memorization but Chinese schools are based on understanding. The emphasis is on 思路 (thinking process), not just on the final answer. It is considered unreasonable for an instructor to give points only based on the final answer. This is reflected in the PISA tests, which are tests of understanding, not knowledge.

It is also reflected on the 高考 which test your ability to answer questions that are considered "hard". For example, the 高考作文题 is a very open ended test and both perfect scorers and zero scorers (since it is actually difficult to get a zero on this exam without turning in a blank page) are publicized and looked on as heroes. Every year, people come out with "zero point tests" which get a zero in the most creative way. I don't need to talk about the math section, it is all creative problems.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

who knows. In liberal shanghai, they allow students to grade teachers lol. What a joke. So teachers cannot fail students and have to pamper them because the students are their boss

Without evaluation from your students, how do you know if you are doing well or not? How do you know when it is the students fault and when it is your fault? I think the assumption that teachers jobs are affected significantly by student votes is wrong.

 

[Zarland]

Bravos to the Brits. There is no need to reinvent the wheels every single time, especially in educating our next generation. If China has found something that work, Brits should see if this can be incorporated into their system.

The current Chinese system was heavily influenced by the Western system, and to a large extend, the Japanese education system. Now it has come into a full circle, and it is time for the West to re-examine the East.

Chinese PISA score was phenomenal, even the rural areas in China are higher than the average for some of the developed nations.

 

[bolo]

As i said, the thick ice was not just formed in one day, and Xi Jinping needs a lot of effort to purge the liberal influence in CPC, and also in the media and the minister of education.

Those 'big tigers' are behind, since those liberals are just their lapdogs.

Xi Jinping is now waging the anti-corruption war campaign against those 'big tigers'.

time will tell if he is successful in turning these tigers into floor mats.

 

[definitelynotIndian]

I would say more because if given equal resources Asian students beat the western students. In west high school is a place to socialise unlike in Asia where you actually study in high school.

 

[tranquilium]

Supposedly that independent study may foster student's ability to stand on its own and intuition. In practice, it is way more likely to foster laziness. Combined with teacher evaluation this often forces the teacher to reduce standards and form a vicious cycle. Plus, the intuition developed in this type of study can also be wrong.

Even worse, there really isn't anything to prevent "chalk and stalk" students to do the exact same independent study on their own, but the reverse can't be done. Consequently, the overall result from chalk and talk is significantly better.

 

[Zarland]

I would say more because if given equal resources Asian students beat the western students. In west high school is a place to socialise unlike in Asia where you actually study in high school.

If given equal resources, the result would be very similar.

The amount of dollars spent per student can be easily measured. However, parents' involvement and students' dedications can not be easily quantified. Nonetheless, they are all resources. It takes effort from students, parents, and the school to consistently producing high quality results.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

The current Chinese system was heavily influenced by the Western system, and to a large extend, the Japanese education system. Now it has come into a full circle, and it is time for the West to re-examine the East.

No it wasn't. If it were, then the results would be the same, but they're not. Chinese invented the concept of standard examinations since the Imperial days where everyone was equal and their merit is solely determined by the exam grades. Western examinations were always about question and answer, the Socratic method. The Japanese education system was influenced by the Chinese and German systems, not the other way around.

 

[mike2000]

Firstly, I think it is relevant to ask why so many Asian companies will look for western educated staff for senior positions, same with why soo many Chinese/asians come/send their children to the U.S/U.K/west for study(again, even the chinese president only daughter studies in the U.S not their home country.lol). As an anecdote/example, I was friendly with a Dutch born project manager for a large multinational industrial firm few years ago, and he was assigned to Singapore for several years. His comment about Asian trained engineers, was that they were technically competent, but if something unexpected occurred, they struggled to think laterally and would come to him for a solution, which they could implement most competently.Again this is just an example/point im trying to make, it doesnt measn all asians dont have critical thinking/cant act spontaneously, im just pointing out that the system doesnt encourage this, unlike western education system which even promotes this.

I think this is a reflection of the differing education systems. Asian education systems (not just Chinese) favor rote learning. Long hours remembering facts that can be regurgitated up at some exam, and then promptly forgotten. This is already well documented many articles i have red/witnessed myself when i visited China/several asian countries.(i also did student exchange programs in China and South Korea)

What is different about western education, and for me, specifically U.K education?

My son does't study until midnight, he doesn't go to school on the weekends. He sometimes struggles with maths, so I pay for a tutor for 1 extra hour per week to give him one on one tuition so reinforce what he has learnt in the classroom.Despite some critics, the U.K system no longer concentrates on remembering facts(like the articles pointed out), for most students, remembering who was king of England in 1066 will have no relevance for future life.

So, what it teaches instead, is how to FIND information and how to apply it. So, a large part of my son's homework is now checking different sources, and correctly showing their references. The final result may look a little thin by comparison, but I think he learns more. It is a far more important life skill in the always-on environment that he is inheriting.

Finally, while i must confess its a gross simplification/generalization, the Asian style of rote learning prepares students for a life being told what to do, and carrying out their duties and most of the time, they indeed do it perfectly than any western students. , while the western education system prepares the designers and managers of tomorrows world. Surely it is no accident that much of what we hold buy today was conceived by the products of liberal education systems, and built by the products of the Asian education system. In China/Asian countries, the schools give the students a lot of heavy homeworks and dictations etc. We call this ' stuff the duck' education. I would ask chinese mebers on here, if this kind of education is so good, why do the parents in China and other Asian countrieds work hard and save every penny spending a fortune sending their children to International Schools in U.K(there are lots of them in london and other parts of britain) and U.S/west??? Why so many secondary school students wish going abroad for Uni education??? Its also the same with some Chinese students who just came here in U.K to study, when you ask them a question in english(which they didnt go through/learn back home of course), they dont even know what you are talking about, but in their certificate it shows they passed the english test in China with an 'A'(of course through chalk and talk).. So this makes people think hard, really hard...how come?......

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Firstly, I think it is relevant to ask why so many Asian companies will look for western educated staff for senior positions, same with why soo many Chinese/asians come/send their children to the U.S/U.K/west for study(again, even the chinese president only daughter studies in the U.S not their home country.lol). As an anecdote/example, I was friendly with a Dutch born project manager for a large multinational industrial firm few years ago, and he was assigned to Singapore for several years. His comment about Asian trained engineers, was that they were technically competent, but if something unexpected occurred, they struggled to think laterally and would come to him for a solution, which they could implement most competently.Again this is just an example/point im trying to make, it doesnt measn all asians dont have critical thinking/cant act spontaneously, im just pointing out that the system doesnt encourage this, unlike western education system which even promotes this.

I think this is a reflection of the differing education systems. Asian education systems (not just Chinese) favor rote learning. Long hours remembering facts that can be regurgitated up at some exam, and then promptly forgotten. This is already well documented many articles i have red/witnessed myself when i visited China/several asian countries.(i also did student exchange programs in China and South Korea)

What is different about western education, and for me, specifically U.K education? Its also the same with some Chinese students who just came here in U.K to study, when you ask them a question in english(which they didnt go through/learn back home of course), they dont even know what you are talking about, but in their certificate it shows they passed the english test in China with an 'A'

1.) I'm in physics, and in my own observation, it is the Asian scientists that come up with unexpected ideas and ways to implement those ideas, while white Western scientists (at non-elite institutions, that is, outside the top 10 US schools) tend to stay with safe projects with known answers.

2.) That is total bullsh!t, sorry. The most memorization based subject is literature, which Western students don't tend to have a problem with. The least memorization based subjects are math and physics, which Western students struggle with heavily, since the knowledge itself is very simple, knowing how to apply that knowledge is difficult. I would actually argue that Western students are trying to be creative, failing, and thus resorting to memorization, which is reflected in their test scores and degree distributions.

3.) They passed the written English test. They did not pass the oral test because oral test is not expected. The students didn't ask to be sent to the UK - their parents sent them, often against their will (especially for undergrads). Alot of them didn't like English class.

 

[Zarland]

No it wasn't. If it were, then the results would be the same, but they're not. Chinese invented the concept of standard examinations since the Imperial days where everyone was equal and their merit is solely determined by the exam grades. Western examinations were always about question and answer, the Socratic method. The Japanese education system was influenced by the Chinese and German systems, not the other way around.

That really depends on how many years or cycles you are willing to trace back. I am not doubting that China introduced alot of protocols in education that we were still using today. However, China also absorbed alot from other nations.

China didn't only reform its economic policy in the late 70s, education was a great part of it. A great effort was made by the Chinese government to study various education systems around the world in the past 30 years. If you are welling to dig around, you will be surprised to see how many Chinese educators were sent to Japan in the 80s and 90s. It was nothing short of a miracle how mass education could be implemented so quickly and efficiently in China.

Give credit to where credit is due. It is a virtue my friend.

P.S. To make you feel better, Japanese culture was heavily influence by the Chinese in the early days. However, that didn't prevent them from further reforming after their "friendly" exchange with U.S. Commodore Matthew Perry in the mid 19th Century.

 

[AViet]

Bravos to the Brits. There is no need to reinvent the wheels every single time, especially in educating our next generation. If China has found something that work, Brits should see if this can be incorporated into their system.

The current Chinese system was heavily influenced by the Western system, and to a large extend, the Japanese education system. Now it has come into a full circle, and it is time for the West to re-examine the East.

Chinese PISA score was phenomenal, even the rural areas in China are higher than the average for some of the developed nations.

Why the Western people are so obsessed with "they just learn / copy from us" so much?. I found this trait in every Indo-European people, including backward people like Indian. They never accept that they have learned / copied so much from others. In the meantime, highly intelligent and civilized people, like Japanese and Chinese, always so humble, politically aside. They always say they are so backward, they need to learn from others, etc.

In fact, the whole Western education system are formulated from Chinese system. Before 18th century, did the West have examination? No. Did people study from primary school, pass test to go up to higher school and then to university like in China? No. All these had happened in China for centuries, at a very complicated level that even today, many countries are still struggled to follow. The Mongol conquest had brought much of Chinese civilization elements to Europe.

 

[C130]

I thought this is how most teachers teach?? talking and a blackboard!!! what the hell UK!!! lol...independent learning what does that even mean??? lol

Asians are best at learning raw information from a book, but are they freethinkers???? innovation thinking out of the box??? this is what I'm curious about....when is China going to start churning out nobel laureates?

if anything UK should look to Japan.

China pupils are known to cheat...not saying that's the majority.