China successfully park the new airship near space

[Hamartia Antidote]

1. Airship is located between 20km to 80km in height, and is as such capable of extremely detailed surveillance. In comparison, the LEO satellites most useful for Earth Observation are located about 200 - 800 km above Earth, which is 10 times above in height. Hence, this combined with the real time coverage that it can provide is very useful.

I think the world record is just over 50km. 80km is going to be tough.

 

[applesauce]

Of course man! When I am making statements like these, some assumptions are already made, among them being that the adversary is an actual capable nation.

fair enough

Any country with a Short Range Ballistic Missile can hit it.

um no.
srbms aren't sams, nobody uses a ballistic missile to shoot down planes or other maneuverable flying things.... just because you can reach that height with something does not mean you can shoot down things flying at that height. otherwise you might as well say north korea as good anti-satellite capability since their mrbms can go to orbit height.

some examples:

german V-2 in ww2 can hit over 200kms up if launch vertically, but no one is gonna claim the germans in ww2 can shoot down satellites at that altitude.

the soviets had launched multiple manned rockets into orbit in the cold war yet the U-2 spy plane was in use for some 4 years before the soviets finally shot one down(with a sam NOT some ballistic missile).

Among Chinese neighbors, Japan, Korea, Russia, Pakistan, India, Vietnam, and Taiwan can shoot them down. Not to mention that a SRBM can very easily be provided by Japan or US to other nations.

US, Russia certainly could, japan, korea could with the american made sm-3 missiles. india probably could. taiwan/vietnam could not. again, SRBM do not help with aerial targets, srbms are for ground targets, and more recently with the chinese development of the df-21 and df-26, they are used as antiship missiles.

Also, the airship sailed at 20km as far as I know. It is yet to show the capability to go higher up.

20km is the test flight

The side glance is indeed true, and no doubt it is very useful in many scenarios, potentially like the ones in Xinjiang, or in Pakistani Tribal areas.

but also in fights with advanced adversaries, yes they can shoot these down, but something is better than nothing right? especially between superpowers where more than likely satellites are gonna get shot down and leave behind a debris cloud making the orbit unusable(leaving nuclear arms aside). i mean think about it. the US could shoot down normal jets too, does that mean we should stop making more jets? or awac? or destroyers. the chinese has been said to hack us networks all day everyday, does that mean the US should not use the internet?

We don't know the flight is manned, which most analysts think it is not.

im not talking about the wu-14 hypersonic tests. there are multiple programs, one piece of news leaked specially mentioned a manned flight. it was of course quickly removed, most likely because the local government(where the news came from) wasn't suppose to let out that the test was happening.

Also, testing and prototype is different from deployment and mass production stage.

yes i didn't say it was deployed, im just saying they are indeed working on it

I know China can. But it may take some time.
As what I read, China would use a variant of MRBM like SC-19 to shoot that, and it takes quite a long time to prepare and shoot. Correct if I'm wrong.

While Japan or UAE would use SM-3 to shoot that in seconds.

In paper, A Scud missile could have chance too.

a scud hit would be the mother of all miracles. think about how many AA rounds the iraqis blindly shot up into the sky during the gulf war, and guess how many of those rounds hit the F-117's? the answer is none.

and yes, currently china does not have a suitable quick launch missile for altitudes greater than about 30 kms up. missiles like the SC-19 is not really for "near" space vehicles(though i suppose it could), its for low to medium orbits, (test was at ~865 kms up) and other missiles are designed for hit at much bigger orbits, 10,000km+. that said, there aren't much out there between 30km and leo(160km) hypersonic gliders would of course change that, but those gliders are currently not interceptable by anything anybody has today anyhow so all interested parties would need to deissgn new defences for that.

 

[BoQ77]

@applesauce: airship isn't aircraft or satellite which is moving with high to very high speed.
It's nearly fixed and easy to harm with a nearby explosion of any missile could reach the range.

 

[applesauce]

@applesauce: airship isn't aircraft or satellite which is moving with high to very high speed.
It's nearly fixed and easy to harm with a nearby explosion of any missile could reach the range.

yes, airships are comparatively slow, but that's not the problem, srbms like the scud are notoriously inaccurate, orginal scuds have a cep of some 3000m, you would need a thermo nuclear warhead to target this airship to have any chance of success, even later variances have a cep of 500 m, and keep in mind air is 3D, you need to detonate in a very small windows of time, unlike hitting the ground, and i haven't brought up the problem with detecting and targeting at those heights, which many countries like vietnam are severely lacking, this is the same problem bought for china's df-21, its finding and targeting.

 

[Dungeness]

China is testing its largest airship ever
Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer, Popular Science

On October 13, 2015, China started the 24 hour test flight of its largest airship yet in Xilinhot, Inner Mongolia.

The Yuanmeng has a volume of 18,000 cubic meters, a length of 75 meters and a height of 22 meters. It will fly to 20,000 meters to test its control systems and near-space flight performance.

With solar panels installed on its top, the Yuanmeng will be one of the largest solar-powered airships in existence.

Using solar power to drive its rotors will save additional weight in order to increase payload, and gives it a total flight endurance of six months.

The Yuanmeng's 5- to 7-ton payload of data relays, datalinks, cameras and other sensors would also be powered by the sun.

Popular ScienceThis poster from Yuanmeng's manufacturer brags about its capability to fly at over 20km altitude, as well as sensor and communications capabilities. This airship is almost entirely powered by solar panels on its topside.


Like its smaller American counterpart, the JLENS (currently parked outside Washington DC), the Yuanmeng can use its sensors and high altitude to detect threats such as stealth aircraft, cruise missiles, missile launchers, and warships from several hundred miles away.

But the Yuanmeng has other advantages over the JLENS. While the JLENS is an aerostat, anchored to one location by a 3,000m long tether, the Yuanmeng can freely move about and be redeployed. Its high flight altitude also gives the Yuanmeng's sensors superior situational awareness, and the ability to act as a communications rely to Chinese aircraft and drones in the event of a loss in satellite communications.

Henri KENHMANNSolar panels lie on the hangar floor, ready to be attached to the Yuanmeng once it's fully inflated.


Yu Quan, a scientist of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, notes that airships are ideal for long duration flights in near space (the atmosphere between 20km to 100km altitude), though thermal expansion from day and night temperature differentials are a design issue.

Operating higher in near space means that the Yuanmeng would have constant line of sight over a hundred thousand square miles--an important requirement for radar and imaging. Increased sensor coverage means increased warning time against stealthy threats such as cruise missiles, giving Chinese forces a greater opportunity to detect and shoot down such threats.

It would also be harder for fighters and surface-to-air missiles to attack near space objects.

huanqiu.comThis airship, apparently a Golden Eagle, is a predecessor to the Yuanweng. China has conducted low level research into airships since the 1960s.


This airship, apparently a Golden Eagle, is a predecessor to the Yuanweng. China has conducted low level research into airships since the 1960s.

The program may be the start of a wider portfolio of large airships. China Aviation Industry General Aircraft Co. Ltd. (CAIGA), a subsidiary of China Aviation Industry Group, has partnered with Flying Whales, a French company to build heavy airships, with a 60-ton payload cargo airship reported to be their first aircraft.





China Tests Its Largest Airship | Popular Science

 

[Nan Yang]

China is testing its largest airship ever
Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer, Popular Science

On October 13, 2015, China started the 24 hour test flight of its largest airship yet in Xilinhot, Inner Mongolia.

The Yuanmeng has a volume of 18,000 cubic meters, a length of 75 meters and a height of 22 meters. It will fly to 20,000 meters to test its control systems and near-space flight performance.

With solar panels installed on its top, the Yuanmeng will be one of the largest solar-powered airships in existence.

Using solar power to drive its rotors will save additional weight in order to increase payload, and gives it a total flight endurance of six months.

The Yuanmeng's 5- to 7-ton payload of data relays, datalinks, cameras and other sensors would also be powered by the sun.

Popular ScienceThis poster from Yuanmeng's manufacturer brags about its capability to fly at over 20km altitude, as well as sensor and communications capabilities. This airship is almost entirely powered by solar panels on its topside.


Like its smaller American counterpart, the JLENS (currently parked outside Washington DC), the Yuanmeng can use its sensors and high altitude to detect threats such as stealth aircraft, cruise missiles, missile launchers, and warships from several hundred miles away.

But the Yuanmeng has other advantages over the JLENS. While the JLENS is an aerostat, anchored to one location by a 3,000m long tether, the Yuanmeng can freely move about and be redeployed. Its high flight altitude also gives the Yuanmeng's sensors superior situational awareness, and the ability to act as a communications rely to Chinese aircraft and drones in the event of a loss in satellite communications.

Henri KENHMANNSolar panels lie on the hangar floor, ready to be attached to the Yuanmeng once it's fully inflated.


Yu Quan, a scientist of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, notes that airships are ideal for long duration flights in near space (the atmosphere between 20km to 100km altitude), though thermal expansion from day and night temperature differentials are a design issue.

Operating higher in near space means that the Yuanmeng would have constant line of sight over a hundred thousand square miles--an important requirement for radar and imaging. Increased sensor coverage means increased warning time against stealthy threats such as cruise missiles, giving Chinese forces a greater opportunity to detect and shoot down such threats.

It would also be harder for fighters and surface-to-air missiles to attack near space objects.

huanqiu.comThis airship, apparently a Golden Eagle, is a predecessor to the Yuanweng. China has conducted low level research into airships since the 1960s.


This airship, apparently a Golden Eagle, is a predecessor to the Yuanweng. China has conducted low level research into airships since the 1960s.

The program may be the start of a wider portfolio of large airships. China Aviation Industry General Aircraft Co. Ltd. (CAIGA), a subsidiary of China Aviation Industry Group, has partnered with Flying Whales, a French company to build heavy airships, with a 60-ton payload cargo airship reported to be their first aircraft.





China Tests Its Largest Airship | Popular Science

He he he. China's Yuan Meng is better then US's JLENS. Chinese so smart

How a $2.7 billion air-defense system became a 'zombie' program



Unknown to most Americans, the Pentagon has spent $2.7 billion developing a system of giant radar-equipped blimps to provide an early warning if the country were ever attacked with cruise missiles, drones or other low-flying weapons.
After nearly two decades of disappointment and delay, the system — known as JLENS — had a chance to prove its worth on April 15.
That day, a Florida postal worker flew a single-seat, rotary-wing aircraft into the heart of the nation’s capital to dramatize his demand for campaign finance reform.

JLENS is intended to spot just such a tree-skimming intruder, and two of the blimps were supposed to be standing sentry above the capital region. Yet 61-year-old Douglas Hughes flew undetected through 30 miles of highly restricted airspace before landing on the West Lawn of the U.S. Capitol.

At a congressional hearing soon afterward, Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) demanded to know how “a dude in a gyrocopter 100 feet in the air” was able to pull off such an audacious stunt.
“Whose job is it to detect him?” Chaffetz asked.

It was JLENS’ job, but the system was “not operational” that day, as the head of the North American Aerospace Defense Command, Adm. William E. Gortney, told Chaffetz. The admiral offered no estimate for when it would be.

Seventeen years after its birth, JLENS is a stark example of what defense specialists call a “zombie” program: costly, ineffectual and seemingly impossible to kill.

Source-
http://graphics.latimes.com/missile-defense-jlens/

 

[Nan Yang]

More trouble for US's blimps....

A military blimp has gotten loose in Maryland and was floating towards Pennsylvania, authorities said. Fighter jets were scrambled in the wake of the incident to escort the unmanned vessel, according to officials.

A fire department in Maryland first reported that the Aberdeen Blimp, known as an became untethered just before noon today. It has passed Harrisburg, PA and was flying towards the northeast at 15,000 feet, officials said.


More ...
Military Blimp That Broke Free Touches Down in Pennsylvania - ABC News

 

[Dungeness]

More trouble for US's blimps....

A military blimp has gotten loose in Maryland and was floating towards Pennsylvania, authorities said. Fighter jets were scrambled in the wake of the incident to escort the unmanned vessel, according to officials.

A fire department in Maryland first reported that the Aberdeen Blimp, known as an became untethered just before noon today. It has passed Harrisburg, PA and was flying towards the northeast at 15,000 feet, officials said.


More ...
Military Blimp That Broke Free Touches Down in Pennsylvania - ABC News

That is a lot of money in the air.

 

[Nan Yang]

That is a lot of money in the air.

$2.7 Billion fly away. So funny.

State police used shotguns to shoot down wayward military blimp that cut loose and drifted across Pennsylvania
[/URL
]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3295818/Could-weeks-untangle-wayward-military-blimp-Pennsylvania-woodland-state-police-use-shotguns-deflate-it.html

 

[BoQ77]

$2.7 Billion fly away. So funny.

State police used shotguns to shoot down wayward military blimp that cut loose and drifted across Pennsylvania
[/URL
]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3295818/Could-weeks-untangle-wayward-military-blimp-Pennsylvania-woodland-state-police-use-shotguns-deflate-it.html

a single spare balloon doesnt cost much like that