China Starts Building 30 New Roads in India-Tibet Border Area

[TaiShang]

Maybe more aggressive, maybe not. China's policies always demonstrate extreme strategic discipline and single-minded focus on long-term gains. We are never interested in scoring cheap temporary points. That sets us apart from India because their political elites are always looking to make electoral gains by throwing red meat to a beastly and feral public, hungry for political scraps. The Indian masses have been conditioned to believe that the road to superpower status is paved by audacious circus stunts along their borders with China and Pakistan, rather than substantive improvements to economic, industrial, (indigenous) military, scientific and technological capabilities.

What's definitely true though is that this episode has taught China's leadership to cast aside their illusions about India. Previously, China believed India was a 'swing state' on the global stage whose foreign policy tilt could be negotiated by building on common interests, 'win-win cooperation', etc. Too many policymakers are stuck in the Cold War era, believing that India is the 'leader of the non-aligned movement', 'independent actor', 'proponent of multipolarity', etc.

The ugly reality is that India's dark ambition is actually unqualified regional, then global hegemony. It's foreign policy goal is to recreate and export its caste system onto the international order, whereby other states are neutralized and rendered into low-caste slaves like Bhutan and formerly Nepal. China has belatedly realized this truth. So now, China's India policy will take a sharply hostile turn. Perhaps it will be more aggressive, but definitely it will be more alert, wary, vigilant, and non-cooperative.

Anyway, you raised an interesting point worth discussion, so I invite other respected Chinese members to chip in with their thoughts and analysis (forgive me if I've forgotten anyone)

@TaiShang @Chinese-Dragon @ChineseTiger1986 @ZeEa5KPul @beijingwalker @Feng Leng @cnleio @Dungeness @AndrewJin

Very great analysis.

India had until recently only helped China indirectly by providing empirical evidence as to how not to govern a country.

China is quite blessed to have great examples of successful public diplomacy, such as Korea, Japan and Singapore as well as Greater China units such as Taiwan.

India, on the other hand, has been an anti-example. Now, with its brazen interference in a matter between China and a neighbor, it has proven to be not only a midget in public policy making, but also in international relations.

India has proven its worthlessness as an opponent as well as a potential friend.

I know first hand that this incident has smashed many false assumptions towards India among Chinese epistemic community. I am sure same is the case with diplomacy community. India has shown its ugly face and this will be used against it to pull other small nations under Indian choke into China's sphere of influence.

India has reduced itself an overcrowded and over-filthy pawn for the West to push along.

It has forever lost the potential respect it may elicit from China.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

They just made india enemy number 1. The public sentiment in China is really anti India.

Pakistan is like -

 

[Dash]

Your imagination while at your keyboard watching the screen or your phone ?
But I have to admit I am disappointed not being able to watch Chinese missiles finding its targets in India.
I wonder how China with its immense firepower vs India's huge number of human meat fodder will turn out.
Will China wipe out India's ports and docks to secure its sea lanes ?
I will not know for now.
After pondering, I think its good that it will not happen.
.

Be prepared to be disappointed forever. Seems like you know nothing about a war.

It's a rather silly self-comforting statement, seen so often among Indian posters here.

The matter of fact is Chinese now station in Doklam area with much more enhanced capability. Prior to the standoff, Chinese border guards only patrolled the area on foot once in a while. The status-quo has forever changed. You guys can claim whatever you want to, it won't change the NEW ground reality. You guys are just too dumb to even comprehend what it means, like Chinese said "brain no enough use".

Dude remove the bolds and the smilies. They are becoming an eyesore and may be then I will CONSIDER replying you.

China don't care India, BeiJing only care interests in the region.

Like India cares. How much investment you have in India? And how badly we want your investment or your interest in our region is factually available in google or baidu whatever that is.

 

[Dungeness]

Maybe more aggressive, maybe not. China's policies always demonstrate extreme strategic discipline and single-minded focus on long-term gains. We are never interested in scoring cheap temporary points. That sets us apart from India because their political elites are always looking to make electoral gains by throwing red meat to a beastly and feral public, hungry for political scraps. The Indian masses have been conditioned to believe that the road to superpower status is paved by audacious circus stunts along their borders with China and Pakistan, rather than substantive improvements to economic, industrial, (indigenous) military, scientific and technological capabilities.

What's definitely true though is that this episode has taught China's leadership to cast aside their illusions about India. Previously, China believed India was a 'swing state' on the global stage whose foreign policy tilt could be negotiated by building on common interests, 'win-win cooperation', etc. Too many policymakers are stuck in the Cold War era, believing that India is the 'leader of the non-aligned movement', 'independent actor', 'proponent of multipolarity', etc.

The ugly reality is that India's dark ambition is actually unqualified regional, then global hegemony. It's foreign policy goal is to recreate and export its caste system onto the international order, whereby other states are neutralized and rendered into low-caste slaves like Bhutan and formerly Nepal. China has belatedly realized this truth. So now, China's India policy will take a sharply hostile turn. Perhaps it will be more aggressive, but definitely it will be more alert, wary, vigilant, and non-cooperative.

Anyway, you raised an interesting point worth discussion, so I invite other respected Chinese members to chip in with their thoughts and analysis (forgive me if I've forgotten anyone)

@TaiShang @Chinese-Dragon @ChineseTiger1986 @ZeEa5KPul @beijingwalker @Feng Leng @cnleio @Dungeness @AndrewJin

Thanks for your quality post!

During this stand-off, I have been paying special attention to the posts by some respectable Indian members as I was expecting to read more rational views. To my surprise, none of them has demonstrated a deep comprehension of the strategic implication of this standoff for India in the future, which we usually would expect from social elites who act as counterbalance to excitable and gullible masses.

If these Indian TTAs represent the level of thinking of Indian academic, political and diplomatic communities, I would have to say the premise of India being a future world power is exceedingly optimistic. India simply doesn't seem to possess the wisdom that China has demonstrated in that last 7 decades, and BJP is not any more capable than Congress Party.

Modi's unparalleled popularity in India indicates India is leaning towards an autocratic society. As India has been smashed by China in every front, frustrated India society is anxious to find a magic to "replace" their usually sloppy and inefficient democratic system, in hoping to emulate China's success. Modi and his ultra-nationalism along with his Hindu religious BJP, is the answer that Indian public thought to have found. This is a very sad truth that a country can be hijacked by its own democratic system, in which the majority of voters care more about their next meal than their next generation. IMO, current India is a perfect brewing ground for Nazism, as Indians are willing to believe anyone who promise to make "India Great Again".

At the same time, India as a society, to a large degree, still immersed itself in a colonial mentality. Many Indians still believe that they were the natural inheritor to British colonial legacy, therefore, automatically entitled to all British colonial possession, legally obtained or illegally robbed. Indian members have demonstrated this mindset towards Bhutan during this standoff, Nepal during 2015 Grand Blockade, as well as internal independence movements.

Doklam incident may serve as a awakening call to Chinese leadership who held such a wishful thinking that it could somehow always come to "win-win" proposition even with its adversaries. The way Chinese public looking at India will also be forever changed after this.

A mixed potion of the feudal social structure, its Hindu religious superstition, its ultra-nationalism, its colonial mindset and its own brand of illiberal democracy will turn India into bizarre creature rather than a superpower that all Indians are dreaming about.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Congratulations to China. May China prosper.

Well it looks like India is the loser.

 

[Dungeness]

Dude remove the bolds and the smilies. They are becoming an eyesore and may be then I will CONSIDER replying you.

It is not important if you reply or not. I don't really expect anything meaningful from you.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Maybe more aggressive, maybe not. China's policies always demonstrate extreme strategic discipline and single-minded focus on long-term gains. We are never interested in scoring cheap temporary points. That sets us apart from India because their political elites are always looking to make electoral gains by throwing red meat to a beastly and feral public, hungry for political scraps. The Indian masses have been conditioned to believe that the road to superpower status is paved by audacious circus stunts along their borders with China and Pakistan, rather than substantive improvements to economic, industrial, (indigenous) military, scientific and technological capabilities.

What's definitely true though is that this episode has taught China's leadership to cast aside their illusions about India. Previously, China believed India was a 'swing state' on the global stage whose foreign policy tilt could be negotiated by building on common interests, 'win-win cooperation', etc. Too many policymakers are stuck in the Cold War era, believing that India is the 'leader of the non-aligned movement', 'independent actor', 'proponent of multipolarity', etc.

The ugly reality is that India's dark ambition is actually unqualified regional, then global hegemony. It's foreign policy goal is to recreate and export its caste system onto the international order, whereby other states are neutralized and rendered into low-caste slaves like Bhutan and formerly Nepal. China has belatedly realized this truth. So now, China's India policy will take a sharply hostile turn. Perhaps it will be more aggressive, but definitely it will be more alert, wary, vigilant, and non-cooperative.

Anyway, you raised an interesting point worth discussion, so I invite other respected Chinese members to chip in with their thoughts and analysis (forgive me if I've forgotten anyone)

Bravo! A masterful piece of analysis! Where can I buy the book?

While I wholeheartedly agree with everything written, I will add that while its certainly India's ambition to export its putrescent and abominable caste system throughout the world, they have about as much chance of succeeding as the Islamic State does of establishing a Caliphate.

The real outcome of this wicked and base aspiration will be India's subjugation by the United States and its use as cannon fodder in America's far more dangerous plan to contain China and inhibit the Rise.

Thanks for your quality post!

During this stand-off, I have been paying special attention to the posts by some respectable Indian members. To my surprise, none of them has demonstrated a deep comprehension of the strategic implication of this standoff for India in the future, which we usually would expect from thinkers who act as counterbalance to excitable masses.

If these Indian TTAs represent the thinking of Indian academic and diplomatic communities, I would have to say the premise of India being a future world power is exceedingly optimistic. India simply does not possess the wisdom that China has demonstrated in that last 7 decades, and BJP is not any smarter than Congress Party.

Modi's unparalleled popularity in India indicates India is leaning towards an autocratic society. As India has been smashed by China in every front, frustrated India society is anxious to find a magic to "replace" their usually sloppy and inefficient democratic system, in hoping to emulate China's success. Modi and his ultra-nationalism alone with his Hindu religious BJP, is the answer that Indian public thought to have found. This is a very sad truth of a democratic system in a country where the majority of voters care more about their next meal than their next generation. IMO, current India is a perfect brewing ground for Nazism, as Indians are willing to believe any thing to make "India Great".

India as a society, to a large degree, still immersed itself in a colonial mindset. Many of them still believe that they are the natural inheritor to British colonial legacy, therefore, automatically entitled to all British colonial possession, legally obtained or illegally robbed. Indian members have demonstrated this mindset towards Bhutan during this standoff, as well as in 2015 Nepal Grand Blockade.

A mixed potion of Feudal social structure, Hindu religious superstition, ultra-nationalism and colonial mindset, will turn India into unique existence rather than a superpower that all Indians are dreaming about.

Another fantastic post! Personally speaking, this incident really opened my eyes to how duplicitous and impudent India really is. I had known some Indian kids growing up, and I do not have a single fond memory of them. I hesitated to generalize their behaviour and values to their entire country, but I see now that they were thoroughly typical specimens.

As was mentioned elsewhere, India is worthless both as a friend and a foe. Winston Churchill did not err at all in his description of them.

 

[rcrmj]

For your information China is not rich...your average income is less than many countries of Africa. And no US, Japan and Australia are not making money from China. It is the other way. China sells toys and other stuff to these countries and make money. Remember your toys and other plastic stuff that you cell to others are not made by internet warriors like you but by low paid and harassed factory workers from rural China.

indian```with no concept of reality and facts ```have a look at who is the world's biggest consumer of luxury cars, appliances, garment, food and services, and how much Chinese tourists are spending overseass each. Ask your high caste overlords to feed you facts just for once instead of nonsensical Bollywood illusion.

and those workers from my Indian suppliers' factory making less than the amount my neighbour spent for her dog in a month````and yet those Indian are considered to be lucky to have a job.

 

[terranMarine]

indian```with no concept of reality and facts ```have a look at who is the world's biggest consumer of luxury cars, appliances, garment, food and services, and how much Chinese tourists are spending overseass each. Ask your high caste overlords to feed you facts just for once instead of nonsensical Bollywood illusion.

and those workers from my Indian suppliers' factory making less than the amount my neighbour spent for her dog in a month````and yet those Indian are considered to be lucky to have a job.

Even dogs in China get to enjoy better meals than those factory workers in India. Can it get any worse?

 

[Nan Yang]

India is more than capable of taking China alone...remember India has the second largest Armed forces in the world. If US, Japan and Australia wants to join the party...then why not. As the great Chinese military strategist Sun Tzu said having allies in war make the victory easier.

Before forging an alliance beware their true intention...- SunTzu

 

[Han Patriot]

Congratulations to China. May China prosper.

Well it looks like India is the loser.

Lose or win is not the main factor. China had always wanted peace, we even informed them about the road building activity out of goodwill, instead of diplomatic protest, these idiots sent in troops. The equation is forever changed, back to status quo? Instead of just patrolling, the Chinese are militarizing Doklam, we are now stationed there. Strategic genius DOVAL? You practically gave us excuse to take over the whole region. Before this, that area was ambigous between Bhutan and China and we had always tolerated Bhutanese patrol, do you think the Bhutanese will dare patrol now after what happened. Great work India.

 

[Dungeness]

Congratulations to China. May China prosper.

Well it looks like India is the loser.

Well, that really depends on the angle and the time span considered. India has a reason to consider itself a winner, so does China. This seemly win-win proposition may just be the original intend of both governments when they reached the settlement.

As the old saying goes: He who laughs last laughs best.

 

[salarsikander]

Yup and that is pakistan.

Post reported for unnecessarily dragging Pakistan
@waz @Jango
I know Idians have hard time accepting the reality, especially the confused ones who do not even have Indian passport

 

[Menthol]

India too is building heavily on Indian side. It is naturally expected that if a war starts again each of the one wants to be at advantage.

Why should India fear if China build road in China India border??

Border road connecting one country to another is a very normal thing. India is actually get a lot of advantages as India side is more developed and dense compared to China side, which is mostly empty mountain.

Connecting India to Tibet is actually making Tibet closer to India too. Not to mention a lot of Tibetan people live in northern India. Tibetan people is also culturally and religiously closer to India.

As well as a lot of Chinese are Buddhist, who mostly want to visit India to see Buddhist holy land.

 

[Dungeness]

Indian government has decided to speed up the construction of border roads. This is an interesting time.

Emulate China, build border roads faster
DH News Service, Aug 30 2017, 0:41 IST

The Centre’s decision to speed up construction of roads in the India-China border areas has not come a day too soon. Construction of many roads in the area has been suffering due to many reasons, including red tape. According to one report, only 27 “strategic roads” (963 km) of the 73 (totalling 4,643 km) identified for construction along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) over 15 years ago have been completed till now. The importance of road-building in the area cannot be overemphasised. The stand-off at Doklam, where the land borders of India, China and Bhutan converge, is the result of China’s attempt to build a road in the region. India protested the action because the over-efficient Chinese were threatening to overshoot into Bhutanese territory. India has a treaty obligation to protect the territorial integrity of Bhutan.

China has been feverishly building roads, bridges and bunkers all over the area. It has also installed state-of-the-art sensors and warning systems, including radars. One reason why China is keen to develop infrastructure all around the region is to consolidate its hold over Tibet. Another is to drive a diplomatic wedge between India and its Himalayan neighbours and, on the ground, cut them off from each other. A third objective is to bring its military might right up to India’s doorstep and regularly probe New Delhi’s resolve to resist the People’s Liberation Army’s attempts to slice off territory. Today, China is capable of moving tanks and artillery at short notice right up to the India-China border. India, too, has been building roads and infrastructure but the pace has been slow, something both the Army and the Comptroller and Auditor General have complained about.

In a war or war-like situation when heavy weapons, vehicles and troops have to be moved quickly, the lack of proper roads would be a liability. What the government has done is to liberalise the rules under which the Border Roads Organisation (BRO) can build roads. It will no longer have to consult the defence ministry at every stage of the construction. Whether the BRO builds the roads itself or through contractors, it can take decisions on its own. Engineers of the BRO have been empowered to approve works up to a certain amount depending on their rank. This will simplify the process. The present system allows officials to shirk responsibility, and that is one reason why construction projects have not moved forward. The new rules give the engineers considerable freedom to get the work done. One can only hope that the incomplete roads will now be completed quickly.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/630469/emulate-china-build-border-roads.html