China should 'reconsider' who owns Okinawa: state media

[Sonyuke_Songpaisan]

At least, Ryukyu should be independant from Japan. Let Ryukyu be Ryukyu.

 

[Snomannen]

Of course I know what is written there, it says: "Chinese Humiliation Map";
The map does not discriminate which is Chinese territory, which is tributary/vassal states. But to what extend does China considered what is theirs? This is not made clear so that China can opportunistically claim a lot of its neighbors territories. Such as this map, at once, China also claim part of Siberia:

It said: How much land has Russian pirate grab our (Chinese) land? Reject Communism, Fight Russia! Reclaim our land!

Next is South China sea...

Now, it is Okinawa turn~ LOL

Furthermore what exactly is there something to be humiliated? The very fact that Chinese feel humiliated that they cannot control other kingdoms or states on unequal term (朝&#36002 anymore shows that Chinese still in the very heart Chauvinistic and look down upon others;

Britain does not feel humiliated at all when they lose their colonies and power nor do German feel humiliated by their defeat in WW2; In contrary, they feel regretful. Humiliation begets revenge, which is reminiscent of what Nazi German did. Remember that Hitler always spread the message that German being humiliated by the outcome of WWI and Versailes treaty. In the end, Hitler seek revenge to gain back what the German "lose";

First of all,
I suppose you know how old these two maps actually are.
Secondly,
you need to know the fact that those territories China lost to Russia (#106), is already officially given up by the Central Government. Also years ago China took back a small part of land from Central Asia,
which means that the territory issue from the north of China is a thing of the past, so is the concept of the old map (#106). The argument is completely over.
However, as for SCS and Taiwan, China never gives them up.
Please know the different.

Since you know what 朝貢 is, I would like to ask you: did China nowadays ever claim those modern countries which was part of the Tribute, such as Thailand, Kazakhstan, Korea and outer Mongolia.
The first map you posted, is a "map of the Tribute" (just like British CW), not a "map of China".
Please know the different.

Besides I don't think China is really claiming Ryukyu.
(questioning doesn't mean claiming but the article#1 is still stupid)
I also believe that it was just a temporarily stupid action, since it is impossible and unrealistic for China to support Ryukyu independence movement (not to mention claiming Ryukyu as China's second Taiwan).
1. The Chinese government always claim that they don't like to disturb the internal affairs of other countries;
2. The Ryukyu independence movement actually support the other independence movements, such as Tibet.
3. As I have mentioned before, Ryukyu is never a China's territory.

Also Nazi Germany was a defeated country which is the one who started the war.
You should find another example.

 

[JSCh]

Of course I know what is written there, it says: "Chinese Humiliation Map";
The map does not discriminate which is Chinese territory, which is tributary/vassal states. But to what extend does China considered what is theirs? This is not made clear so that China can opportunistically claim a lot of its neighbors territories. Such as this map, at once, China also claim part of Siberia:

It said: How much land has Russian pirate grab our (Chinese) land? Reject Communism, Fight Russia! Reclaim our land!

Next is South China sea...

Now, it is Okinawa turn~ LOL

Furthermore what exactly is there something to be humiliated? The very fact that Chinese feel humiliated that they cannot control other kingdoms or states on unequal term (朝&#36002 anymore shows that Chinese still in the very heart Chauvinistic and look down upon others;

Britain does not feel humiliated at all when they lose their colonies and power nor do German feel humiliated by their defeat in WW2; In contrary, they feel regretful. Humiliation begets revenge, which is reminiscent of what Nazi German did. Remember that Hitler always spread the message that German being humiliated by the outcome of WWI and Versailes treaty. In the end, Hitler seek revenge to gain back what the German "lose";

FYI, the map that you posted is obviously from Republic Of China(Taiwan). The Chinese character is from right to left, it has anti-communist slogan and also the national flag of ROC. It is hardly surprising that ROC would be anti-communist and is angry with Soviet Union/Russia.

 

[Kolaps]

About a hundred year ago the events that brought about the May Fourth movement make Chinese realized that we lived in a dog eat dog world. We cannot depend on the power that be(the West) to do justice by us no matter how much we pay them. We need to do it by ourselves 落后就要挨打. We need to abandon the traditional sinocentric Confucian world view on international affair because it obviously does not fit the real world that we lived in.

A group of Marxist then formed the CCP with the goal of making China into a competitive power in as short time as possible. To realized that dream, grand risky social experiment needs to be taken. China paid a heavy price for some of those failed policy. But one cannot deny the fact that China did indeed modernize and is well on the way to a power statehood in accordance with aspiration.

China is at a mess and is very very backward compare to other nation when Mao inherit China. To modernize China, obviously drastic measure has to be taken. China can look at example of UK, Germany, US, Japan and SU/Russia. But China either geopolitical or cultural is not similar to any of this nation, therefore none of them could be directly copied. The closes is SU/Russia with vast rural peasant population. Joseph Stalin for all the faults that he is blamed, but one cannot deny the fact that he made SU/Russia into a superpower.

To realize the gargantuan task facing Mao, one only needs to look at India today. India in most aspect is much more modernize than China. The only thing going for China is our culture, our tradition of a centralize political system. It is easy for us today to criticize Mao with 20-20 hindsight. But he did what have to be done.

It is undeniable that Mao and communism/socialism is now part of Chinese history, therefore part of Chinese civilization. It does not have have to be one or the other. Mao did not succeed in eradicating Chinese culture, nor should we try to erase him.

Yes, he had a deed to make China as a whole again. But a very bad statesman.

I don't think China in late '70 was modernized. They even leave behind again. Mao and communism are part of ugly Chinese history and mistake that we had done. There's nothing to be proud off with the communist nor nasionalist.

We can modernized while being traditional at the same time. It was a big mistake we had done to defamed and demonized Chinese civilization.

 

[Kolaps]

Of course I know what is written there, it says: "Chinese Humiliation Map";
The map does not discriminate which is Chinese territory, which is tributary/vassal states. But to what extend does China considered what is theirs? This is not made clear so that China can opportunistically claim a lot of its neighbors territories. Such as this map, at once, China also claim part of Siberia:

It said: How much land has Russian pirate grab our (Chinese) land? Reject Communism, Fight Russia! Reclaim our land!

Next is South China sea...

Now, it is Okinawa turn~ LOL

Furthermore what exactly is there something to be humiliated? The very fact that Chinese feel humiliated that they cannot control other kingdoms or states on unequal term (朝&#36002 anymore shows that Chinese still in the very heart Chauvinistic and look down upon others;

Britain does not feel humiliated at all when they lose their colonies and power nor do German feel humiliated by their defeat in WW2; In contrary, they feel regretful. Humiliation begets revenge, which is reminiscent of what Nazi German did. Remember that Hitler always spread the message that German being humiliated by the outcome of WWI and Versailes treaty. In the end, Hitler seek revenge to gain back what the German "lose";

If your country, Vietnam and Philippine had the same mentality as what you said above. You should give up South China Sea and return it to the rightfully owner, Republic of China.

At least we had done, by giving up outer Manchuria, outer Xinjiang and many lands to the younger neighbor countries.

We, are good people who willingly to share lands to the others and forget the dispute, but we also have duty to protect our land from thieves and responsibility to the people, we are not fool.

British regret because it's not theirs. China humiliated because we unable to defend our land and being responsible to our people. What is we going to say to our Manchu people that their outer Manchuria lost? What is we going to say to our Xinjiang people that their outer Xinjiang lost? etc.

For Germany, isn't West and East Germany already united 20 years ago?


Okinawa and Korea was our responsible in the past, because we made promise to protect them. And we fulfilled by defending them when they were invaded by Japan.


We, Republic of China is also responsible to their citizens, ex-citizens and their decedent. All people, who can prove they are decedent of the citizens of Republic of China are welcomed in Taiwan. Manchu, Mongols, Tibetan, Han Chinese, etc, all of them. When they apply citizenship, we can't refuse, that is our law. We already accepted many of them.

 

[Snomannen]

Yes, he had a deed to make China as a whole again. But a very bad statesman.

I don't think China in late '70 was modernized. They even leave behind again. Mao and communism are part of ugly Chinese history and mistake that we had done. There's nothing to be proud off with the communist nor nasionalist.

We can modernized while being traditional at the same time. It was a big mistake we had done to defamed and demonized Chinese civilization.

The Republic was actually not better than CCP.
KMT is responsible for the independence of Outer Mongolia.
Even the Republic Founder Sun was trying to sold out Xingjian and Mongolia to Japan in order to gain their support of eliminating Qing Dynasty.

 

[Zero_wing]

The point is you always put Japan on this issue get over yourselves and get a life

So what his still a criminal how many chinese in the mainland kill by that guy even marcos was better guy at less we still have facilities and laws that he made that are still being use Mao was just a power hungry jerk that killed many chinese to preserve his power so what if he made some of his men march a long distance? I mean Alexander the great did the same thing so as Napoleon?

 

[Kolaps]

The Republic was actually not better than CCP.
KMT is responsible for the independence of Outer Mongolia.
Even the Republic Founder Sun was trying to sold out Xingjian and Mongolia to Japan in order to gain their support of eliminating Qing Dynasty.

It's true, KMT and whole Republic of China is no better than CCP.

 

[Snomannen]

It's true, KMT and whole Republic of China is no better than CCP.

The whole Chinese history in this 100 years is a catastrophe.
*sigh*, poor Chinese people.
That's why we have to "good good study day day up".

 

[gpit]

At the least the Ryukyuans should know they'll have China's backing if they decide to have a referendum in the future.

The Chinese are simply too nice. The Chinese should learn from the US on Hawaii. The Chinese should sent lots of merchants to do business there, stay there, build families where and then request a referendum.

This is how Hawaii became part of USA. WHAT REALLY HAPPENED

 

[Maxtini]

First of all,
I suppose you know how old these two maps actually are.

LOL~ isn;t it Chinese hobby to show old map to justified their claims?
The first nine-line (thirteen to be exact) dash claim also appear around the same time those two maps were made, which become the basis of what today Chinese government claim (with some modification)

Secondly,
you need to know the fact that those territories China lost to Russia (#106), is already officially given up by the Central Government. Also years ago China took back a small part of land from Central Asia,
which means that the territory issue from the north of China is a thing of the past, so is the concept of the old map (#106). The argument is completely over.
However, as for SCS and Taiwan, China never gives them up.
Please know the different.

The difference is, the Chinese saw no hope to reclaim part of Siberia and Mongolia from "mother Soviet Russia" control, so it officially relinquish the claim.
But for SCS, the Chinese saw great possibility for them to grab some slice of what suppose to be their former vassals, so the conflict continues till now.

Even the funniest thing is how Official State Media justified the relinquishment of Mongolia.

Rough translation Highlight: Acknowledging Mongolian independence was not only the genius decree from Great Leader Mao, but also something that was right and proper, only to be celebrated with jubilation, by the China-Loving Chinese citizens...... Oddly enough there were still peoples with suzeraintive thinking among us, it seems that (for them) it is forbidden that Mongolia not be drawn into China-Map. They were indeed intoxicated by Han-supremacism.

Seems, these intoxicated Chinese still exists~

Since you know what 朝貢 is, I would like to ask you: did China nowadays ever claim those modern countries which was part of the Tribute, such as Thailand, Kazakhstan, Korea and outer Mongolia.
The first map you posted, is a "map of the Tribute" (just like British CW), not a "map of China".
Please know the different.

If you look at the description, it said: "中華失地領土" (Lost Chinese Land)
In the strictest sense, for ultranationalist, it is "map of Lost China" or "Map of what suppose to be Chinese Land if not lost". The map I shown was just to mock and ridicule them.

Besides I don't think China is really claiming Ryukyu.
(questioning doesn't mean claiming but the article#1 is still stupid)
I also believe that it was just a temporarily stupid action, since it is impossible and unrealistic for China to support Ryukyu independence movement (not to mention claiming Ryukyu as China's second Taiwan).
1. The Chinese government always claim that they don't like to disturb the internal affairs of other countries;
2. The Ryukyu independence movement actually support the other independence movements, such as Tibet.
3. As I have mentioned before, Ryukyu is never a China's territory.

I am talking about the ultranationalist claim~ (see my first post)

Otherwise, which Chinese would claim ryukyu as Chinese? Of course chinese ultranationalists. The map I shown was just to mock and ridiculte them. Even you yourself acknowledge such thing is impossible, but given that a lot of ultranationalists elements still lingers into Chinese central government, it is not that kind of impossible anyway.

In fact, every ridiculous Chinese claim was all started by ultranationalist, some which eventually become accepted by Chinese norm (South China Sea). South China Sea is one of the successful "scenario" made by the ultranationalist to claim. The failed one is Mongolia and Siberia. Now, they are trying to stir up Ryukyu islands in wake of dispute with Japan

 

[darkhero]

LOL~

You jump up and down like a monkey. LOL~

 

[Maxtini]

The Chinese are simply too nice. The Chinese should learn from the US on Hawaii. The Chinese should sent lots of merchants to do business there, stay there, build families where and then request a referendum.

This is how Hawaii became part of USA. WHAT REALLY HAPPENED

LOL~ so you suggest that China should act like USA?

So where is the old condemnation of USA imperialist (反美帝国主&#20041 goes?

This is why I said Chinese ultranationalism still holds true and pervasive in Mainland Chinese society, even in government bureaucracies.

 

[Kolaps]

If you look at the description, it said: "中華失地領土" (Lost Chinese Land)
In the strictest sense, for ultranationalist, it is "map of Lost China" or "Map of what suppose to be Chinese Land if not lost". The map I shown was just to mock and ridicule them.

It's for education purpose, the history of China, what kind of historical event that we lost that land.

And what is the connection with the ultra-nationalist?

Beside, if today, we really do want some of these land to be returned, I do believe some of them are willingly to join. But we don't to it.

And Taiwan citizenship only limited to the people from his former territory of Republic of China. Not from Qing or Yuan dynasty.

In the past, Han Chinese was an open club, where many people can join, including people from Siberia. But today, it's closed and not accepting new people anymore. And I don't think we want other people to join too.

So, which one better? Han Chinese who want to assimilated a lot of Mongoloid people as possible? Or Han Chinese who closed and reject interracial or intercultural marriage? I think the second one is the noble one and bring safety to the neighbor countries.

 

[Kolaps]

LOL~ so you suggest that China should act like USA?

So where is the old condemnation of USA imperialist (反美帝国主&#20041 goes?

China is not a communist anymore. Mao Zedong is dead, people lost in faith in communism. The new era of Confucianism revival is started.

This is why I said Chinese ultranationalism still holds true and pervasive in Mainland Chinese society, even in government bureaucracies.

If you said so, that we should take a new land then.

Do have any suggestion what land China should take first? Of course outside Taiwan.