China says wants peace after newspaper warns on South China Sea clash

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

getting emotional about china? that's ok, until pakistan is part of china interest.. Few decades ago US sent 7th fleet on India for pakistan but now it is not the same.. it's ok super hyper duper power... But how long pakistan will praise others? am amazed every time, when i see you guys praising chinese...

The americans did not help Pakistan become a nuclear weapons state with the ability to produce nukes and advanced missiles indigenously. The american's did not give Pakistan the ability to produce fighter jets and countless other advanced military equipment indigenously. The american's did not invest at least $46 billion in Pakistan with plans to invest billions more in the coming years and decades. With the aim of making Pakistan a developed nation. And that is not even 1% of what China has done for Pakistan militarily, economically and politically. If that makes me pro-Chinese, then so be it. No patriotic Pakistani can ever forget the help and sacrifices that Chinese brothers and sisters have made for Pakistan. It's legacy will last for many centuries/millennia.

 

[Hellfire]

The fallout of which would have potentially massive benefits for Pakistan in that if China becomes very reliant on Gwadar,

True. But you have to agree that the subcontinental politicians have rarely shown the astuteness that is required to achieve that. And here I talk of all politicians irrespective of the nationalities.

then China will HAVE TO ensure that Pakistan becomes an economically and militarily very powerful nation no matter the cost.

Yes. That is why I said interesting times ahead. What I am wondering about is, will Pakistan take the steps to incorporate Gilgit-Baltistan as also Western regions of Kashmir that is 'Azad' Kashmir, which happens to be one of the demands of the Chinese as they are loathe to be investing in a region which is disputed as the ramifications over their claims of Taiwan are simply too big in terms of prestige as also the ability of the Communist Party of China to remain as the sole party capable of ensuring a reunification of the Chinese 'territories'

Even if it means in-cooperating the Pakistani economy to the Chinese one. This would in an instance would propel Pakistan into becoming a virtually developed nation like Turkey

You do realise that the import of the corridor will significantly bring to fore the requirement of the Chinese to ensure a complete dominance of the markets of Pakistan with their products in order to foster a sense of dependency in order to ensure smooth and perpetual flow of their goods? That this process will entail a pricing model wherein your local industries are simply unable to match the economies of scale that China has, in turn eroding your manufacturing base and completely rendering you dependent on their manufacturing industries and in effect, bringing the same situation that East India Company ensured in the subcontinent prior to independence? And that the tangible benefits to Pakistan will only accrue in terms of service sector development for local requirements, the international service market is something which is currently being dominated by countries of Asia not including Pakistan and is an area wherein even west wants to foray in order to provide for employment?

Anyways, there are upsides to it, no doubt.

Many interesting times ahead if you are a Pakistani.

No, I am not. But I do share your sentiment here.

I suspect that as we write all this, the entire Pakistani Foreign Office is praying hard for a negative judgement, against China, on the 12th.

Indeed, it shall. Although the likelihood of the same is remote.

What is interesting is Baluchistan IMO.

 

[greenwood]

China had hit Vietnam twice in SCS in 1974 and 1988.

The war against the Phillipine can not be avoided, remember my word here, it will be approved in the future.

The difference is if America make compromise and leave SCS, there will be a small scale war upon Philippine like in 70's, 80's. If America don't leave and step in directly with weapons, it will be an uncontrolled big war.

 

[Hellfire]

China is a superpower. The only other superpower in the world is America. No other nation/s on earth can match them or even come close to them. But China is going to become the 1st and only Global hyper power in a few decades. They cannot be defeated or humiliated by anyone or anything no matter what anyone says or does.

As you make this statement, I sincerely hope that you do realise that Chinese have historically claimed all the territories where they or even Tibetans had even remotest presence even a thousand years back. In that context, as some very erudite people like @Joe Shearer and WAJsal have indeed prodded me to start reading up the history of your Northern Areas and Chitral. What I stumbled upon while in the initial phases of the same was that during 500-1000 AD the area had been under the suzerainty of Tibet at some time or the other.

With that in mind, it is merely curious what if China was to lay claim to the area on this area under these aspects? As the matter of boundary between China and Pakistan has been settled by your ceding the territories they wanted earlier, yet the area is disputed as per the Chinese themselves as legally you have not incorporated the area into your country save for Chitral. A remote, though ticklish problem which might crop up.

Additionally, I am sure you must have done an in-depth study of the history of the Russian Revolution (the socio-economic reasons thereof, there was no economic weakness of the empire) and the rise and subsequent fall of the USSR despite the fact that they had the ideal model of society and governance in place and how technology and market denial actually defeated them when you make the above statement.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

True. But you have to agree that the subcontinental politicians have rarely shown the astuteness that is required to achieve that. And here I talk of all politicians irrespective of the nationalities.



Yes. That is why I said interesting times ahead. What I am wondering about is, will Pakistan take the steps to incorporate Gilgit-Baltistan as also Western regions of Kashmir that is 'Azad' Kashmir, which happens to be one of the demands of the Chinese as they are loathe to be investing in a region which is disputed as the ramifications over their claims of Taiwan are simply too big in terms of prestige as also the ability of the Communist Party of China to remain as the sole party capable of ensuring a reunification of the Chinese 'territories'



You do realise that the import of the corridor will significantly bring to fore the requirement of the Chinese to ensure a complete dominance of the markets of Pakistan with their products in order to foster a sense of dependency in order to ensure smooth and perpetual flow of their goods? That this process will entail a pricing model wherein your local industries are simply unable to match the economies of scale that China has, in turn eroding your manufacturing base and completely rendering you dependent on their manufacturing industries and in effect, bringing the same situation that East India Company ensured in the subcontinent prior to independence? And that the tangible benefits to Pakistan will only accrue in terms of service sector development for local requirements, the international service market is something which is currently being dominated by countries of Asia not including Pakistan and is an area wherein even west wants to foray in order to provide for employment?

Anyways, there are upsides to it, no doubt.



No, I am not. But I do share your sentiment here.

In Pakistan, ultimately it's the military who has the REAL power and gets things done not the politicians. Politicians in Pakistan are a sideshow with no real power. And the Pakistan military is dedicated to ensuring the successful completion and expansion of CPEC. Just as they were in Pakistan becoming a nuclear weapons state when the whole world (except China) doubted us and did everything to try to prevent us from doing so.

Your last paragraph is completely incorrect as per the ground realities in Pakistan which I can confirm from my recent trip to Pakistan 2 months ago. Chinese expertise and assistance has IN FACT helped local Pakistani industries and companies to produce relative world class services and products which has boosted them tremendously. All over Pakistan now there are massive world class infrastructure projects going on thanks to CPEC which many said were impossible only 2 years ago. I never thought I would see this in my lifetime.

 

[Hellfire]

You use too many words. You could just have said,"The grapes are sour."

And transcend to the plane of higher intellectual plane? Sir, not everyone has the command or erudition you have! LOL!!! Cut a bit of slack here!!!! LOL

are dealing with an extremely primitive mind-set, caught in the constipated thinking of the Marxist. Nothing can be done about it. It is a kind of mental disease, like religion.

Ah, you have verbalised my feelings when I was being hammered with political science by Russians over their Communist model of governance after they lost the war!!! An antithetical concept at best.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Hello Sir !

I was just trying to be helpful.

 

[Hellfire]

Your last paragraph is completely incorrect as per the ground realities in Pakistan which I can confirm from my recent trip to Pakistan 2 months ago. Chinese expertise and assistance has IN FACT helped local Pakistani industries and companies to produce relative world class services and products which has boosted them tremendously. All over Pakistan now there is massive world class infrastructure projects going on thanks to CPEC which many said were impossible only 2 years ago. I never thought I would see this in my lifetime.

I maybe wrong here, I concede. Am not an economic student or economist. Just have a Masters in Finance and Business Administration though ... but I do not have the figures of a long term study to be able to comment on positive impact, so am completely willing to accept may be wrong here. Although history and economic sense coupled with geo-strategic requirements and implications in terms of China and its economic and trade activities do tend to send me in the direction I have spoken about.

Thanks

 

[Joe Shearer]

As you make this statement, I sincerely hope that you do realise that Chinese have historically claimed all the territories where they or even Tibetans had even remotest presence even a thousand years back. In that context, as some very erudite people like @Joe Shearer and WAJsal have indeed prodded me to start reading up the history of your Northern Areas and Chitral. What I stumbled upon while in the initial phases of the same was that during 500-1000 AD the area had been under the suzerainty of Tibet at some time or the other.

With that in mind, it is merely curious what if China was to lay claim to the area on this area under these aspects? As the matter of boundary between China and Pakistan has been settled by your ceding the territories they wanted earlier, yet the area is disputed as per the Chinese themselves as legally you have not incorporated the area into your country save for Chitral. A remote, though ticklish problem which might crop up.

Additionally, I am sure you must have done an in-depth study of the history of the Russian Revolution (the socio-economic reasons thereof, there was no economic weakness of the empire) and the rise and subsequent fall of the USSR despite the fact that they had the ideal model of society and governance in place and how technology and market denial actually defeated them when you make the above statement.

@hellfire

Believe it or not, when @WAJsal wrote his brilliant bits about Gilgit, I had pointed out that some of the Amirs of the Pamirs principalities had fled to their overlords in Kashgar, on being displaced by the Dogras. The rest you have speculated upon yourself, with or without the benefit of this little morsel.

I believe that the Pakistanis have not read the story of the Arab and his camel. At any rate, it is too late now. To shift metaphors, the Chinese have used the technique that Miyamoto Musashi called giving the opponent a pillow to fight with. They have done that, and while Pakistan dreams of fortunes to be built from the CPEC (which is in any case carefully designed to keep Chinese money in Chinese hands), the Chinese are quietly sinking roots - first, an engineering brigade/ task force - in Gilgit.

There was a character called Hurree Jamshet Ram Singh in the Billy Bunter stories. In words he might have used, the foolishness of the Pakistani deep state is awful.

 

[greenwood]

@shah1398 I just search and read sources, China didn't says what the title report.
The newspaper Reuter reporters don't feel ashame of fabrications.
A Chinese newspaper says, if the Philippine lay aside the arbitrition, China will take bilateral discussion with Philippine about revelant issues. Their consideration is when the arbitrition happens, there will be no rooms for negotiations any more.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

@hellfire

Believe it or not, when @WAJsal wrote his brilliant bits about Gilgit, I had pointed out that some of the Amirs of the Pamirs principalities had fled to their overlords in Kashgar, on being displaced by the Dogras. The rest you have speculated upon yourself, with or without the benefit of this little morsel.

I believe that the Pakistanis have not read the story of the Arab and his camel. At any rate, it is too late now. To shift metaphors, the Chinese have used the technique that Miyamoto Musashi called giving the opponent a pillow to fight with. They have done that, and while Pakistan dreams of fortunes to be built from the CPEC (which is in any case carefully designed to keep Chinese money in Chinese hands), the Chinese are quietly sinking roots - first, an engineering brigade/ task force - in Gilgit.

There was a character called Hurree Jamshet Ram Singh in the Billy Bunter stories. In words he might have used, the foolishness of the Pakistani deep state is awful.

This same foolishness by the Pakistani state has enabled it to become a nuclear weapons state and prevent an enemy that is 8 times bigger than us from ever invading/attacking Pakistan. The way you speak about CPEC is as if india is economically more powerful than america and that the living standards of Indian people are better than Germans/West Europeans.

The CPEC project and presence of Chinese assets/investments now all over Pakistan means that any attack on Pakistan is now an attack on China. In case of Pakistan going to war, the Chinese in the very least would be forced to give us (in substantial quantities) their most advanced conventional weapons systems to be used devastatingly against our enemies.

Pakistan's relationship with China is of massive benefit to Pakistan and helps ensure our survival against potential enemies much more powerful than india.

 

[Jlaw]

@shah1398 I just search and read sources, China didn't says what the title report.
The newspaper Reuter reporters don't feel ashame of fabrications.
A Chinese newspaper says, if the Philippine lay aside the arbitrition, China will take bilateral discussion with Philippine about revelant issues. Their consideration is when the arbitrition happens, there will be no rooms for negotiations any more.

Reuters is turning into a tabloid faster than I expected.

 

[Brickwall]

@shah1398 I just search and read sources, China didn't says what the title report.
The newspaper Reuter reporters don't feel ashame of fabrications.
A Chinese newspaper says, if the Philippine lay aside the arbitrition, China will take bilateral discussion with Philippine about revelant issues. Their consideration is when the arbitrition happens, there will be no rooms for negotiations any more.

Just was curious to know, assuming hypothetically ruling goes in China Favor, will China still set aside ruling and negotiate with Philippines ??

 

[Hellfire]

I believe that the Pakistanis have not read the story of the Arab and his camel. At any rate, it is too late now. To shift metaphors, the Chinese have used the technique that Miyamoto Musashi called giving the opponent a pillow to fight with. They have done that, and while Pakistan dreams of fortunes to be built from the CPEC (which is in any case carefully designed to keep Chinese money in Chinese hands), the Chinese are quietly sinking roots - first, an engineering brigade/ task force - in Gilgit.

Sir, have not yet started with what @WAJsal has put in. I skimmed over his posts and realised they are exhaustive and it shall need me to first read the history from as far back as I can find and then read his posts and enquire of my doubts from him and tag you in the context in order to get a better perspective of things.

It shall be a shame and an insult to his hard work if my half baked and half assed queries were directed to him out of ignorance.

So I dusted out a copy of The History of Civilisations of Central Asia and went straight to Volume 4 of the series and specifically the chapter The Western Himalayan States by AH Dani. The Tibetan angle was a gem .... so the question to the gentleman quoted. It is astounding how people do not realise the long term implications of the whole issue of Kashmir and its unsettled status on CPEC, the effect of the project on Pakistan and its long term implications on their strategic objectives.

With the tightening of the noose in the SCS and especially Malacca (by Indians) I am really interested in observing how Pakistan once agains surrenders its own interests in this misplaced quest for 'power' and supposed 'prosperity'. Like the gentleman has said, the army remains supreme and it has an interest, it does raise the query of personal interests trumping long term strategic objectives.

Also, I sense that we may see Baluchistan come into prominence now, as Joe Cocker would say, 'with a little help from my friends'.

There was confirmed Chinese brigade along Skardu-Minimarg-Kel axis since 2010, with elements of combat troops there, officially to provide protection to the construction work, but also as a block for any ingress of unsavoury characters from Pakistani domestic industry into Xinjiang.

 

[shah1398]

The newspaper Reuter reporters don't feel ashame of fabrications.

Good search Bro. Seems people out there are wrongly quoting China in order to escalate situation more. Nefarious designs seems to be making way by publishing such news.

12th July verdict and many more such situations. India is eagerly awaiting to read the same text read by China very recently @ NSG

I suspect that as we write all this, the entire Pakistani Foreign Office is praying hard for a negative judgement, against China, on the 12th.

Dear Sirs,
The 12th July thing is between stake holders and China. I dont think so either India or Pakistan have any say in this regard. So why should even these two be concerned here? China knows how to tackle itself and whatever is the result out there, it wud have almost nil affects on China.
@NALANDA Like I said that India aint even the concerned party out there than what has it got to do with NSG thing?