China says Turkey president offered support over restive Xinjiang

[Yankee-stani]

He is no Chinese. He is a Taiwanese + Caucasian/White mongrel cuck.

Can I ask an offtopic question what do Chinese think of HAPAS and Eurasians in general

 

[beijingwalker]

One thing you should understand. Threatening Turkey will have big consequences for China. Such a policy would get people in Pakistan supporting Turkey and shit will hit the fan.

After Turkey shot down a Russian airplane, all central Asian Turkic nations instantly threw their support behind Russia. I bet if there is a conflict between China and Turkey, Pakistan government will certainly choose being neutral, Turkey doesn't really have many friends either in west nor in the Muslim world, even in the Muslim world, I doubt any single country would turn against China because of Turkey and definite Pakistani government won't do this. As for what people support, Pakistani people always support Turkey, that's very understandable, but it won't make any difference between country to country relations.

 

[Nan Yang]

Turkey is just looking out for its own gain. They have enough problems themselves with their stagnant and faltering economy and their geopolitical troubles, they are willing to trade the Uighur issue for substantial Chinese aid. Not that I am a fan of Turkey, it's one of the biggest asshole nations in the world. It has absolutely zero moral standing in criticizing China when Turkey has a long history of genocide and oppression against the Armenians, Kurds and Greeks among many other groups.

Couldn't agree with you more.
As recent as 5 years ago Turkey had great relationship with all it's neighbors and China. Then they screwed everything up.

China needs to stop this policy of mass punishment in Xinjiang, PERIOD. It is one thing to fight terrorism, it is another thing to disrespect and suffocate a people. It is one thing to punish terrorists, it is another to detain people for their religious practices, squash down on mosques and send Communist party minders to live with Uighur households. Talk about CREEPY AS ALL HELL.

I would not worry too much about China. China do things only in the interest of China. They will not care about Western lecturing. These camps are the only way to deal with Radical Islam. Malaysia had it's own radical islam called Al Aqcam. Their followers grew to the point they had more membership than any political party in Malaysia including all levels of society. I had colleagues that were members. They then begin to threaten the government. Mahathir ban them but what do you do with the thousands of followers? If you do not understand radical islam I don't blame you. Radical islam do not promote interaction with non Muslim. Go to NE Malaysia and you will get an idea. We have shopping trolleys for Halal and non halal stuff.
I can go on but I think you get the idea.

Look, if China really wanted to reduce the tensions in Xinjiang, how about integrating the Uighur language and Chinese language schools and forcing the Han Chinese there to also learn Uighur? Same with Tibet. How about the PRC stick to its initial promise of all ethnic groups being equal under the law and make Han Chinese learn and embrace the local identities instead of having this colonizer's mentality and viewing Uighurs and Tibetans like they are their subjects and possessions. It is creepy and immoral. Everyone knows there is no genuine freedom of expression in Xinjiang or Tibet, so all of the professed allegiances made by Uighurs or Tibetans are done in a highly pressurized situation.

If you follow news around the world you should realized that Western electoral democracy have already reached it's level of incompetence. China today have a more functional government then US, France or UK. China today is also the greatest implementer of the Catholic doctrine. Yet China do not have election and religious leaders pledge royalty to the party first.

China is doing fine so don't worry.

 

[Pepsi Cola]

I'm not Gordon Chang, he's an idiot. I am not pro or against China, I legitimately criticize both and all countries. I am generally very critical about US foreign policy, but I am also very critical about China's treatment of Uighurs and Tibetans and the general lack of free expression and protection of individual rights.



I am not defending America's foreign policy which I am generally a fierce opponent of.

I am not criticizing China's fight against terrorists either. I am criticizing China's use of mass punishment against the Uighurs, which will inevitably cause more resentment and backlash.

I am actually very familiar with China's relationships with Islam, I have been to all of the Western provinces so I know very well the differences between Hui Muslim and Uighurs and Kazakhs and Tajiks. I am talking about the situation with Uighurs and to a slighter extent, Kazakhs.

Ask yourself why there is so much resentment today? Ask yourself why there is rising terrorism today from the Uighurs? You don't think China's own domestic policies created the sense of alienation and anger? China is flooding the region with Han Chinese. Uighurs went from occupying 90% of the population in 1949 to only occupying 40%. Uighurs have to learn Mandarin, but Han Chinese do not learn Uighur even if they lived in Xinjiang their whole lives. Plus Han Chinese do not respect their culture. Their presence in Xinjiang causes more tension because they dominate the economy, society and culture.

Chinese people in general have an issue dealing with those of other races and cultures, they do not know how to interact with others as an equal. They act as inferiors to White Westerners, but they act as superiors and with arrogance against groups they consider inferior, like Uighurs and when overseas, Africans, Southeast Asians, etc.

China's problems in Xinjiang are an extension of this problem.



I'm more than aware of all the atrocities the US government has committed. I am not a supporter of US foreign policy, I'm a huge critic of it. Just because the US is bad, does not mean China is good. Both countries are terrible in different ways. Mainly the US commits evil against non-citizens, while China often commits evil against it's own supposed citizens.

Yes, the US committed many evils. The difference is that in the US, minorities can vent and express their anger. They can speak from the heart and against the forces of power. When you don't allow people to express themselves, then they build in their anger. You won't resolve the problems at the core, instead you just sweep it under the rug.

In China, Uighurs cannot do that. Instead, you have this. If you don't think this is extremely creepy, then I don't know what to say.

You're very naive, but I don't blame you. Modern day Islamic terrorism happens even without any real oppression. Muslim terrorists across the world like ISIS are rising up to fight for Jihad! remember? And who created those Iraqi ISIS extremists in the first place? USA.


You look at Philipines, Thailand, Indonesia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, and many other countries. So you want to wait until those terrorists take a whole city and then go invade them later? The world is not so simple, my friend.

Freedom is just a concept, and it is not absolute. Not all forms of speech like 'fighting words' are protected, which means even freedom has limitations.

I certainly enjoy the freedom I have, but at the same time, it is not fair for anyone to demonize another form of government just because it's not the same as yours.

The US politicians even pitch economic values against each and fight wars over them. Capitalism vs. Communism, is this really why we send people to die? This Founding Fathers would be embarrassed if they knew this would happen.

 

[vi-va]

One thing you should understand. Threatening Turkey will have big consequences for China. Such a policy would get people in Pakistan supporting Turkey and shit will hit the fan. The best thing China can do is play the soft card and invest inside Turkey. This is happening already and the result has worked. The Chinese should not follow the example of the Americans.

Indeed. This is a smart move. China won't and should NOT bully other nations like America. It won't last long and we all knew what does revenge means.

Turkey was front line against Soviet Union during cold war, and the Turks were incited by US/UK backed NGOs during that period. The target is Central Asia and Xinjiang. It's a smart and vicious geopolitical strategy, try to dismember both Soviet Union and China with 1 stone.

I think that's one of the reason Pan-Turkism rose. Turkey and Turks are geopolitical cards of US/UK. But Turkey should NOT forget who dismembered the Ottoman Empire.

As long as so called DEMOCRACY, FREE SPEECH are still manipulated by NGOs and media in Turkey, Pan-Turkism will have social soil.

China has no intention to fight with Turkey nor Turks, but it's not up to China.

 

[055_destroyer]

One thing you should understand. Threatening Turkey will have big consequences for China. Such a policy would get people in Pakistan supporting Turkey and shit will hit the fan. The best thing China can do is play the soft card and invest inside Turkey. This is happening already and the result has worked. The Chinese should not follow the example of the Americans.

You really think Turkey is so brotherhood towards Pakistan?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Rashid_Dostum

Why so protective of a proven murderer of Pashtun? Maybe becos Dostum is a uzbek who share lineage with Turkish?

https://www.intelligenceonline.com/.../dostum-hosted-by-mit-in-ankara,108252944-bre

Will turkey hand over him to trial for International court for Pakistan sake? Do turkey really care about Pakistan pashtun?

 

[Rasengan]

Maybe Turkey shouldn't fund terrorism and train terrorists and sent them to China? Why blame China support Kurd while Turkey started "the game" long time ago? Do you know "they" are obsess with Neo-Ottoman?

Anyway, for now, China is neutral on the Kurd issue.

They shouldn't fund terrorism or train them. But if you are going to follow the example of the American's who I might add have failed spectacularly, then be my guest. Instead, why don't you do the sensible thing of becoming partners with Turkey? Pakistan can bridge the gap. What people speak on this forum has no reflection on the leadership don't conflate the two. The above news shows China following my viewpoint which is smart. The Kurds are a menace to Iran, Iraq, and Turkey, essentially you are using a ragtag group over three countries. China must remain neutral.

Indeed. This is a smart move. China won't and should NOT bully other nations like America. It won't last long and we all knew what does revenge means.

Turkey was front line against Soviet Union during cold war, and the Turks were incited by US/UK backed NGOs during that period. The target is Central Asia and Xinjiang. It's a smart and vicious geopolitical strategy, try to dismember both Soviet Union and China with 1 stone.

I think that's one of the reason Pan-Turkism rose. Turkey and Turks are geopolitical cards of US/UK. But Turkey should NOT forget who dismembered the Ottoman Empire.

As long as so called DEMOCRACY, FREE SPEECH are still manipulated by NGOs and media in Turkey, Pan-Turkism will have social soil.

China has no intention to fight with Turkey nor Turks, but it's not up to China.

I am not denying there is no problem. Turkey needs to accept China's sovereignty, this is not negotiable if they want to form a relationship. However, China must use diplomacy rather than funding groups, training them and giving them political support. The American's are supposed to be the masters at this game but they mess things up each time and then the local players in the region resent them. We don't want the same situation for China.

I agree the target is Central Asia and Xinjiang. But do you remember what I said to you before? China is very weak in its PR campaign. It doesn't project a good soft image. This is due to a lack of experience. But in this example, China has done it successfully with no collateral costs.

You really think Turkey is so brotherhood towards Pakistan?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Rashid_Dostum

Why so protective of a proven murderer of Pashtun? Maybe becos Dostum is a uzbek who share lineage with Turkish?

https://www.intelligenceonline.com/.../dostum-hosted-by-mit-in-ankara,108252944-bre

Will turkey hand over him to trial for International court for Pakistan sake? Do turkey really care about Pakistan pashtun?

Just remember I am one of the few Pakistani's who supports China's stance on Xinjiang. The question isn't about Turkey supporting Dostum over Pakistan (I hate that guy) but Pakistan has a border with China and people are armed to the teeth. If the Turks get support from the people (some will) then China will have a problem not just with CPEC but within Xinjiang itself. Why increase the flames of the fire when you can put it out with water. What I have said in this thread is what the CPC is actually doing. Pakistan is winning the war in Afghanistan and we shall decide the outcome of these individuals.

After Turkey shot down a Russian airplane, all central Asian Turkic nations instantly threw their support behind Russia. I bet if there is a conflict between China and Turkey, Pakistan government will certainly choose being neutral, Turkey doesn't really have many friends either in west nor in the Muslim world, even in the Muslim world, I doubt any single country would turn against China because of Turkey and definite Pakistani government won't do this. As for what people support, Pakistani people always support Turkey, that's very understandable, but it won't make any difference between country to country relations.

I agree but read my response to @55_destroyer. China would be making a huge mistake if it supports the Kurds.

 

[vi-va]

You're very naive, but I don't blame you. Modern day Islamic terrorism happens even without any real oppression. Muslim terrorists across the world like ISIS are rising up to fight for Jihad! remember? And who created those Iraqi ISIS extremists in the first place? USA.


You look at Philipines, Thailand, Indonesia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, and many other countries. So you want to wait until those terrorists take a whole city and then go invade them later? The world is not so simple, my friend.

Freedom is just a concept, and it is not absolute. Not all forms of speech like 'fighting words' are protected, which means even freedom has limitations.

I certainly enjoy the freedom I have, but at the same time, it is not fair for anyone to demonize another form of government just because it's not the same as yours.

The US politicians even pitch economic values against each and fight wars over them. Capitalism vs. Communism, is this really why we send people to die? This Founding Fathers would be embarrassed if they knew this would happen.

They shouldn't fund terrorism or train them. But if you are going to follow the example of the American's who I might add have failed spectacularly, then be my guest. Instead, why don't you do the sensible thing of becoming partners with Turkey? Pakistan can bridge the gap. What people speak on this forum has no reflection on the leadership don't conflate the two. The above news shows China following my viewpoint which is smart. The Kurds are a menace to Iran, Iraq, and Turkey, essentially you are using a ragtag group over three countries. China must remain neutral.



I am not denying there is no problem. Turkey needs to accept China's sovereignty, this is not negotiable if they want to form a relationship. However, China must use diplomacy rather than funding groups, training them and giving them political support. The American's are supposed to be the masters at this game but they mess things up each time and then the local players in the region resent them. We don't want the same situation for China.

I agree the target is Central Asia and Xinjiang. But do you remember what I said to you before? China is very weak in its PR campaign. It doesn't project a good soft image. This is due to a lack of experience. But in this example, China has done it successfully with no collateral costs.

China has sacrificed a lot by not confronting Turkey on Pan-Turkism issues in past decades. Pan-Turkism hurt Soviet Union badly, and hurting Russia right now, there are Siberian Tatars in Russia.

Another case which hurt Chinese badly is May 1998 riots of Indonesia.

In both cases above, Chinese knew very well who is behind the NGOs and coup. It's part of the grand strategy. The hunter is waiting for China to fight with Indonesia and Turkey, making 2 more enemies against China.

The geopolitical game is really dirty. Divide and Rule is their tradition. Offshore balancing is the major foreign policy. Media/Propaganda is accomplice in the crime.

They shouldn't fund terrorism or train them. But if you are going to follow the example of the American's who I might add have failed spectacularly, then be my guest. Instead, why don't you do the sensible thing of becoming partners with Turkey? Pakistan can bridge the gap. What people speak on this forum has no reflection on the leadership don't conflate the two. The above news shows China following my viewpoint which is smart. The Kurds are a menace to Iran, Iraq, and Turkey, essentially you are using a ragtag group over three countries. China must remain neutral.



I am not denying there is no problem. Turkey needs to accept China's sovereignty, this is not negotiable if they want to form a relationship. However, China must use diplomacy rather than funding groups, training them and giving them political support. The American's are supposed to be the masters at this game but they mess things up each time and then the local players in the region resent them. We don't want the same situation for China.

I agree the target is Central Asia and Xinjiang. But do you remember what I said to you before? China is very weak in its PR campaign. It doesn't project a good soft image. This is due to a lack of experience. But in this example, China has done it successfully with no collateral costs.



Just remember I am one of the few Pakistani's who supports China's stance on Xinjiang. The question isn't about Turkey supporting Dostum over Pakistan (I hate that guy) but Pakistan has a border with China and people are armed to the teeth. If the Turks get support from the people (some will) then China will have a problem not just with CPEC but within Xinjiang itself. Why increase the flames of the fire when you can put it out with water. What I have said in this thread is what the CPC is actually doing. Pakistan is winning the war in Afghanistan and we shall decide the outcome of these individuals.



I agree but read my response to @55_destroyer. China would be making a huge mistake if it supports the Kurds.

Agree. Turkey is a bit far from China's sphere of influence. China has some cards, not big ones right now. Turkey is still in NATO, they are in the very strategic location, are very familiar with geopolitical games.

President Erdogan messed up Turkey foreign relationship badly. China can choose adding insult to injury, or extending an olive branch.

China has made the choice by inviting Turkey into SCO, providing financial support and cooperation on BRI. It's up to Turkey to made their choice.

Turkey foreign policy was not stable. The relationship may improve just for 1-2 presidential term, it has potential to be long term one. Pakistan China relationship is much more mature and stable.

 

[Rasengan]

China has sacrificed a lot by not confronting Turkey on Pan-Turkism issues in past decades. Pan-Turkism hurt Soviet Union badly, and hurting Russia right now, there are Siberian Tatars in Russia.

Another case which hurt Chinese badly is May 1998 riots of Indonesia.

In both cases above, Chinese knew very well who is behind the NGOs and coup. It's part of the grand strategy. The hunter is waiting for China to fight with Indonesia and Turkey, making 2 more enemies against China.

The geopolitical game is really dirty. Divide and Rule is their tradition. Offshore balancing is the major foreign policy. Media/Propaganda is accomplice in the crime.



Agree. Turkey is a bit far from China's sphere of influence. China has some cards, not big ones right now. Turkey is still in NATO, they are in the very strategic location, are very familiar with geopolitical games.

President Erdogan messed up Turkey foreign relationship badly. China can choose adding insult to injury, or extending an olive branch.

China has made the choice by inviting Turkey into SCO, providing financial support and cooperation on BRI. It's up to Turkey to made their choice.

Turkey foreign policy was not stable. The relationship may improve just for 1-2 presidential term, it has potential to be long term one. Pakistan China relationship is much more mature and stable.

I don't know much about the 1998 riots but 1965 was one of the worse massacres in the 20th century. Some of the stories I read were sickening. China has done the right thing now the ball is in Turkey's corner. If they don't behave then they will regret it.

 

[vi-va]

They shouldn't fund terrorism or train them. But if you are going to follow the example of the American's who I might add have failed spectacularly, then be my guest. Instead, why don't you do the sensible thing of becoming partners with Turkey? Pakistan can bridge the gap. What people speak on this forum has no reflection on the leadership don't conflate the two. The above news shows China following my viewpoint which is smart. The Kurds are a menace to Iran, Iraq, and Turkey, essentially you are using a ragtag group over three countries. China must remain neutral.



I am not denying there is no problem. Turkey needs to accept China's sovereignty, this is not negotiable if they want to form a relationship. However, China must use diplomacy rather than funding groups, training them and giving them political support. The American's are supposed to be the masters at this game but they mess things up each time and then the local players in the region resent them. We don't want the same situation for China.

I agree the target is Central Asia and Xinjiang. But do you remember what I said to you before? China is very weak in its PR campaign. It doesn't project a good soft image. This is due to a lack of experience. But in this example, China has done it successfully with no collateral costs.



Just remember I am one of the few Pakistani's who supports China's stance on Xinjiang. The question isn't about Turkey supporting Dostum over Pakistan (I hate that guy) but Pakistan has a border with China and people are armed to the teeth. If the Turks get support from the people (some will) then China will have a problem not just with CPEC but within Xinjiang itself. Why increase the flames of the fire when you can put it out with water. What I have said in this thread is what the CPC is actually doing. Pakistan is winning the war in Afghanistan and we shall decide the outcome of these individuals.



I agree but read my response to @55_destroyer. China would be making a huge mistake if it supports the Kurds.

Bro, you have systematic thinking. Every geopolitical issues nowadays are interrelated. The US/UK tactics may not backfire to them badly, because Five Eyes are sea power states.

US is an island, so are UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. They are hyenas, searching for easy targets, attack then defense, attack again.

Pakistan and China can't do the same as Five Eyes. Any hostility must be taken care of very carefully.

 

[Type59]

President xi should realise people in Hong Kong and Taiwan see these stories, which motivates them to go against Beijing.

Famous poem Martin Niemoller

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

[beijingwalker]

President xi should realise people in Hong Kong and Taiwan see these stories, which motivates them to go against Beijing.

They always know, ROC (Taiwan) even claims the republic of Mongolia part of China. It also claims vast land from Russia and one third of the whole territory of Tajikstan.

 

[vi-va]

President xi should realise people in Hong Kong and Taiwan see these stories, which motivates them to go against Beijing.

Famous poem Martin Niemoller

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Hmm, I am not sure I understood. But I think what Martin Niemöller was against and what Beijing is doing are completely different things.

China will consider the feeling of Taiwan, HK of course, but remember majority lives in mainland China. A good government should consider the overall interests of the nation as first priority, rather than a fraction.

Beijing is maintaining the rule and order within the law. By the way, the pictures below is from the HK Congress.

The Rioters did a good job.

 

[Type59]

Hmm, I am not sure I understood. But I think what Martin Niemöller was against and what Beijing is doing are completely different things.

China will consider the feeling of Taiwan, HK of course, but remember majority lives in mainland China. A good government should consider the overall interests of the nation as first priority, rather than a fraction.

Beijing is maintaining the rule and order within the law. By the way, the pictures below is from the HK Congress.

The Rioters did a good job.

Poem is about speaking up before it is to late. President Xi has been tightening his grip on the communist party and state, if he violates the two term limit imposed after Mao, he will destabilise the party. People like yourself should be questioning his policies, eventually they will impact on you. You may think its only minorities being targeted, so your fine with that but in future you or family could be targeted, who you gonna complain too? As poem states no one left to protest.

 

[beijingwalker]

You may think its only minorities being targeted, so your fine with that but in future you or family could be targeted, who you gonna complain too? As poem states no one left to protest.

I wish I can be targetted, I didn't know so many of my classmates are minorities until when major make or break exams happened, they filled out the forms to claim that they are minorities so they can get those extra points which enables them to go to better schools.

Affirmative action in China
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_China

I learned that many of them are only half minority from only one of their parents who are very likely also half of minority as well.

President Xi has been tightening his grip on the communist party and state, if he violates the two term limit imposed after Mao, he will destabilise the party. People like yourself should be questioning his policies, eventually they will impact on you.

I am personally against removal of term limits and hope Xi can step down after his two term limit is up, but still, do you know how many terms has Erdogan served in Turkey, I don't remeber who was the guy before him.

Poem is about speaking up before it is to late.

Everyone knows this poem and in China its Chinese version is also very popular, but if you compare the Chinese government with Nazi Germany, you are very delusional, China is arguably the most successful country in this century where people enjoy their increasingly affluent life, the majority of the Chinese population strongly support this government.

马丁·尼莫勒："起初，他们带走了……"
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

https://www.dw.com/zh/%E9%A9%AC%E4%B8%81%E5%B0%BC%E8%8E%AB%E5%8B%92%E8%B5%B7%E5%88%9D%E4%BB%96%E4%BB%AC%E5%B8%A6%E8%B5%B0%E4%BA%86/a-46471117