China says no to Pakistan link

[Justin Joseph]

wow,i don't know indian can interpret so much from ten words....
don't worry ,guys.even without this pipeline,there are still planty of others projects between the two countries ,and this news hasn't been confirmed yet....

which country china "abandoned" or "maxed out" before anyway.....

@aimarraul


If u really wanna know here is answer to your question


This is what a president of a nation says about China:

"We have shown much solidarity towards China, supported the policy of one China, have supported China, but we will not forget how they treated us," said Correa.


France24 - Ecuador will not forget China's "mistreatment": president


The news link is from French news website and interestingly the chinese has back stabbed the communist govt.

 

[xebex]

Yep, there is no such thing as 'brotherly' relationship between 'any' nations, its all pure business - pure hardcore business; here money talks. I wonder when people are going to understand this. If there is any 'brotherly' nations, then they are either under developed or still in the dark ages. And as far as China is concerned, they are at the midst of business, so is India; probably have something to do with the race-to-the-top-of-the-world .

But for Pakistan it still is a good deal as it is very close to Iran geographically. Hope this will take care of the energy starvation to a certain extent.

 

[deckingraj]

And at least China went for its own benefit unlike India which had to drop the plan to please their new masters (USA).

Factually wrong...India has not backed off from the deal. However we have some real issues(mentioned below) that need to be sorted out before anything can be finalized...There is a reason you have move forward with the project with option of India joining at later stage...So for you the moral of story would be get your facts right before correcting others...

Actually, alot of people have already said the china joining this was not feasable, if you go back to the thread about the signing of this deal, you will find it was already said that china would find it very difficult to join as the terrain and feasibility are almost too great to overcome.

Very well said...Actually thats the probles people just associate emotions with biz...The way pricing is not feasable for China and they backed off from the deal which would have brought lot of $$$ in transit for struggling Pakistan economy the same way India is reluctant to join this project unless following happens

- Iran provide the gas at the rate(or close to it) which was fixed during negotiations
- Iran takes the responsibility of supply of Oil in Indo-Pak border. What iran is offering is Iran-Pak border with the option of cutting oil supply in case Pakistan did any misadventure...So net net nothing in our hand...


Guys it is as simple as that...No one is going to take losses just for the sake of friendship...China and Pakistan relationship no matter how good cannot ignore this basic fact..This is some fact that sounds alien to some members i have talked to on this forum...

 

[TOPGUN]

Hmmmm....

At least now Pakistan should realize China is all about business, just like US. They dropped the plan just to save a little money and their are members here who expect china to nuke India and wipe us off the world map.

Its just China vs USA in the world now. These two expansionists. They both are using any country that they can extract the max out of, and then they'll abandon them. They are here for their profits, and domination not ours.

Its always been about business my friend & Pakistan knows that just cuz of one deal that went doesn't destroy a friendship .... in this world its all about business & politics if you don't have this trend the world won't survive

 

[Hutchroy]

Then they have discussed the under the sea route, that was also expensive.

Then they comes to concludes that the gas can be supplied by ships this will be more safe and affordable option.

Of course the Deep Sea Pipe Line will cost possibly 50% more or even more but it has the following benefits :

1. Financially : There are no transit fees to be paid. With the Pipe Line having a Minimum "Life" of Fifty Years the Total Amount SAVED will be very very considerable and significant.

2. Security : We are all aware of the prevailing "INSECURITY" in Pakistan in General and Balochistan in Particular.

3. Insurance : Most Important : No Insurance Company or Syndicate in any reputable Insurance Market - be it Lloyds or Chicago or elsewhere - will insure a "Land Based" Pipe as "Land Based" Pipe Lines are protected by Sovereign Guarantees. In case of Insuring a Deep Sea Pipe Line Companies, Syndicates, Market will beat a Path to the Door of the "Client" desiring an Insurance Policy for a Deep Sea Pipe Line.

I trust you will appreciate that not only Pakistan is unwilling to assure India in respect of the Security of the Pipe Line but the validity of a Pakistani Sovereign Guarantee does not instil much confidence.

As such it is better for all concerned that a Pipe Line carrying Natural Gas from Iran or even Qatar to India should follow the Deep Sea Pipe Line Route.

Regarding Import of Natural Gas in the form of LNG : India's Energy Imports are spread from Ecuador to Australia and as such other than Persian Gulf Sources all other sources will supply Natural Gas in LNG form. Thus India can opt for Qatar and Iranian Natural Gas to be Imported in the LNG Form as they will be using common receiving Terminals.

 

[ameer219]

Dear Jagnattjii

Hmmmm....

At least now Pakistan should realize China is all about business, just like US. They dropped the plan just to save a little money and their are members here who expect china to nuke India and wipe us off the world map.

Sir, I don't know who you were referring to, but I guess you better think a little while talking. No one here in Pakistan wants China to nuke India, cos we ourselves have nuke.Like you used to say. Use your grey matter a little so that action potential could be conducted effectively across your spinal cord.


Firstly Sir, you are gravely mistaken.

If China wanted to abandon Pakistan, it would have abandon like in the 80s or 90s, just like how USA neglected us.

But China was there for us, they provided us F-7 planes and A-5 Nanchang planes too, when USA decided to impose sanctions on military planes.

China also helped us in providing us with Nuclear expertise, and developing our very own nuclear reactors.

China also helped and impart us knowledge in aircraft making as you can see "JF-17".
and have also helped us developed our own MBT, Al Khalid..

How can we not be grateful to China for all this? This small link is nothing to us. Its not strong enough to make us think twice who is our friends and who is not unlike what the USA have done. Why should we be a burden to China "operational safety and maintenance requirements", just because we want the gas to pass through us?


Finally, I am sure we Pakistanis are very grateful to China, and we refer our relationship as higher than the mountains and deeper than the seas. They have always been there for us, even today, when we are at our lowest.

Thus I would like to express my gratitude to China, Thanks for being there for us, even at our lowest point.

 

[Awesome]

Which Chinese government official has said so? The article takes no names. The idea is anyway very ambitious to pump liquid oil at temperatures way below zero. But it will be a cool thing for China to have with or without Iran.

Transport oil to Pakistan from the Middle East, suck it up through a straw. This was never a set done deal that it got cancelled and that Chinese officials will bother to comment on it.

 

[Hyde]

actually Iran-Pakistan-China gas pipeline is econimical not viable for china. Pakistan and China's border is about 8000+ Meters above sea level and it is not easy to spread gas pipeline in such a place where the whole area is covered with ice for the most part of the year. If say any problem or technical fault occurs........ it is not easy to trace the problem and then fix it in such a low temperature + the whole project is going to be very costly........ i wasn't expecting china to join the project since first day

 

[Justin Joseph]

Dear Jagnattjii



Sir, I don't know who you were referring to, but I guess you better think a little while talking. No one here in Pakistan wants China to nuke India, cos we ourselves have nuke.Like you used to say. Use your grey matter a little so that action potential could be conducted effectively across your spinal cord.


Firstly Sir, you are gravely mistaken.

If China wanted to abandon Pakistan, it would have abandon like in the 80s or 90s, just like how USA neglected us.

But China was there for us, they provided us F-7 planes and A-5 Nanchang planes too, when USA decided to impose sanctions on military planes.

China also helped us in providing us with Nuclear expertise, and developing our very own nuclear reactors.

China also helped and impart us knowledge in aircraft making as you can see "JF-17".
and have also helped us developed our own MBT, Al Khalid..

How can we not be grateful to China for all this? This small link is nothing to us. Its not strong enough to make us think twice who is our friends and who is not unlike what the USA have done. Why should we be a burden to China "operational safety and maintenance requirements", just because we want the gas to pass through us?


Finally, I am sure we Pakistanis are very grateful to China, and we refer our relationship as higher than the mountains and deeper than the seas. They have always been there for us, even today, when we are at our lowest.

Thus I would like to express my gratitude to China, Thanks for being there for us, even at our lowest point.

The reasons you have mentions all are for china's benefit.

Because it want to tacke India and does not want to get harmed it self.

"Isko dusre ke kandhe pe banduk rakh kar chalana kahte hai" This shows their cunning nature nothing else.

They are just using you like USA have done.

And the only thing where they have to walk extra mile i.e. "pakistan link" they have said blunt NO. Also what is the progress at Gwadar port????

 

[jagjitnatt]

Dear Jagnattjii



Sir, I don't know who you were referring to, but I guess you better think a little while talking. No one here in Pakistan wants China to nuke India, cos we ourselves have nuke.Like you used to say. Use your grey matter a little so that action potential could be conducted effectively across your spinal cord.

I wasn't pointing to you. The people who believe so will automatically get it. But there are a few I have in mind though.

Firstly Sir, you are gravely mistaken.

If China wanted to abandon Pakistan, it would have abandon like in the 80s or 90s, just like how USA neglected us.

But China was there for us, they provided us F-7 planes and A-5 Nanchang planes too, when USA decided to impose sanctions on military planes.

China also helped us in providing us with Nuclear expertise, and developing our very own nuclear reactors.

China also helped and impart us knowledge in aircraft making as you can see "JF-17".
and have also helped us developed our own MBT, Al Khalid..

How can we not be grateful to China for all this? This small link is nothing to us. Its not strong enough to make us think twice who is our friends and who is not unlike what the USA have done. Why should we be a burden to China "operational safety and maintenance requirements", just because we want the gas to pass through us?


Finally, I am sure we Pakistanis are very grateful to China, and we refer our relationship as higher than the mountains and deeper than the seas. They have always been there for us, even today, when we are at our lowest.

Thus I would like to express my gratitude to China, Thanks for being there for us, even at our lowest point.

I am not denying that China is helping Pakistan. I am saying the same. But what I believe in is that India and Pakistan are being played with.

1. China wants to be the next super power and we all know it has the potential.

2. US doesn't want China to overthrow US as the next world leader.

3. It is here China and US try to prevent each other from gaining ground.

4. US is trying to isolate China. Selling arms to Taiwan, meeting Dalai Lama in spite of pressure from China, no defence deal with China, currency prob, etc etc.

5. US was supporting Pak fully till Pak got friendly with China and China became a possible superpower(90s). Similarly, it started supporting India after the same point in time even though it hated India and saw India as USSR's supporter.

6. Now US got friendly with India cause it knows that India-China relations aren't too rosy, and we are a threat big enough to each other. We got the nuke deal, so much defence equipment, lots of investment, so much all of a sudden. Today US is ready tp sell us the best equipment. We are being offered F35, F18, F16, P8i, C17, Radars, Artillery, Bombs, Vehicles, etc, all the latest equipment that it never shared with anyone else. Why?

7. US is trying to create a problem between India, Pak and China. US knows, any problem in this region will involve all three nations. And in case of a war, all three will be destroyed. So no more competition for US. Instead, they get to capture and plunder.

8. US has done that in the past and I expect something similar from them in the future. Today US is using Pak to fight in Afghanistan. Next it will use India to fight China. Sure it will give us the missiles, aircraft, carriers, tanks etc but it will also demand a price for it and it will be us losing our lives and moreover us to be blamed for the war, where US will be the saint in the eyes of the world.

9. China also is no saint. It needs Pakistan to become the superpower. Once China is at the top, it won't allow anyone else to get near just like US does now. China support you because you are our enemy. An enemy's enemy is a friend to them. China also got friendly only after 1962 war with India. Also it is in their interest to stop India, or else they'll have to share the region with another upcoming power.


Its all a game to be at the top. And we are the stepping stones. They'll step over us and leave us behind, marching themselves forward.

There is no brotherhood on the international stage. All that China does is at a price. Its not giving you anything for free. Same for India-Russia. Money is what talks. We all have our problems and we ourselves are our first priorities.

 

[Choppers]

Significant oil discovery in rajasthan
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/51649-cairn-upgrades-reserve-estimates-rajasthan-oil-fields.html

 

[ameer219]

The reasons you have mentions all are for china's benefit.

Because it want to tacke India and does not want to get harmed it self.

Firstly, China have not only supported us military,but also economically



They helped us economically on agreements regarding extension of 500kv Muzaffargarh and Ghatti transmission lines and Jinnah hydropower project were signed by the Pakistan Ambassador in China while the concerned officials of Chinese government signed on behalf of their respective side. The Chinese government has extended a $100 million grant to Pakistan for various projects. Then there is $200 million of concessional financing. In addition there are several projects totaling $250 million which they are financing. These include hydel power stations, sub-stations for Wapda and transmission lines.


And so what if they helped us out militarily only? Russia helped you guys with BrahMos and Pak-Fa, does that mean they are using you against China? and not serious about developing friendship with you guys?

"Isko dusre ke kandhe pe banduk rakh kar chalana kahte hai" This shows their cunning nature nothing else.

They are just using you like USA have done.

And the only thing where they have to walk extra mile i.e. "pakistan link" they have said blunt NO. Also what is the progress at Gwadar port????

Sir, its just a matter of a Link.

Why would I want to walk 10km to get home, when I can walk 500M to go home.

Furthermore like what China said,

The proposal to link that pipeline to China's Xinjiang region would have involved an extension of at least 1000 kilometres, passing through one of the world's highest and most geologically complex mountain ranges through the Karakoram highway

You call this an extra mile? Its probably a huge burden to China for the sake of friendship, and we totally understand this.

Furthermore what difference would it make if the gas was just travelling through Pakistan. We are cool about it, we Pakistanis here are cool about this deal, but you Indians are getting jumpy about what China have to say to us.

Furthermore, its like what Asim had said, there was no established deal yet. Its not like they broke off the deal, that we have to be mad or anything at them. That's why all the Pakistanis are cool about this. So please, sir.

Sir, care to explain your point on Gwadar port?

 

[Spitfighter]

Sort of off topic, but it seems both India and China are shifting focus to Burma given the instability in Pakistan and uncertainty in Iran. Of course Burma and Bangladesh stand to gain from this.


Bangladesh nod for India-Myanmar gas pipeline news
02 March 2010


Bangladesh PM Sheikh Hasina
Bangladesh's Sheikh Hasina government has given its approval for the construction of the 900km gas pipeline linking India and Myanmar, running through its territory.

The India, Bangladesh and Myanmar tri-nation gas pipeline, which is expected to carry Myanmar gas to India's north eastern region, has been entangled in bureaucratic controversies for several years.

Bangladesh's change in stance follows the ouster of the Begum Khaleda Zia regime, which was replaced by India-friendly Hasina government in the January 2009 general election.

According to media reports, the Bangladesh government communicated its willingness to allow passage of the pipe line through it territory during India's power secretary H S Brahma's visit to Bangladesh last week

Sheikh Hasina had visited India in January after taking charge as the new prime minister.

''The energy adviser to the prime minister of Bangladesh, Tawfiq-e-Elahi Chowdhury, communicated its (Bangladesh's) willingness to be part of the pipeline project,'' Brahma told the Mint daily.

domain-b.com : Bangladesh nod for India-Myanmar gas pipeline

 

[ameer219]

I am not denying that China is helping Pakistan. I am saying the same. But what I believe in is that India and Pakistan are being played with.

1. China wants to be the next super power and we all know it has the potential.

2. US doesn't want China to overthrow US as the next world leader.

3. It is here China and US try to prevent each other from gaining ground.

4. US is trying to isolate China. Selling arms to Taiwan, meeting Dalai Lama in spite of pressure from China, no defence deal with China, currency prob, etc etc.

5. US was supporting Pak fully till Pak got friendly with China and China became a possible superpower(90s). Similarly, it started supporting India after the same point in time even though it hated India and saw India as USSR's supporter.

6. Now US got friendly with India cause it knows that India-China relations aren't too rosy, and we are a threat big enough to each other. We got the nuke deal, so much defence equipment, lots of investment, so much all of a sudden. Today US is ready tp sell us the best equipment. We are being offered F35, F18, F16, P8i, C17, Radars, Artillery, Bombs, Vehicles, etc, all the latest equipment that it never shared with anyone else. Why?

7. US is trying to create a problem between India, Pak and China. US knows, any problem in this region will involve all three nations. And in case of a war, all three will be destroyed. So no more competition for US. Instead, they get to capture and plunder.

8. US has done that in the past and I expect something similar from them in the future. Today US is using Pak to fight in Afghanistan. Next it will use India to fight China. Sure it will give us the missiles, aircraft, carriers, tanks etc but it will also demand a price for it and it will be us losing our lives and moreover us to be blamed for the war, where US will be the saint in the eyes of the world.

9. China also is no saint. It needs Pakistan to become the superpower. Once China is at the top, it won't allow anyone else to get near just like US does now. China support you because you are our enemy. An enemy's enemy is a friend to them. Also it is in their interest to stop India, or else they'll have to share the region with another upcoming power.


Its all a game to be at the top. And we are the stepping stones. They'll step over us and leave us behind, marching themselves forward.

There is no brotherhood on the international stage. All that China does is at a price. Its not giving you anything for free. Same for India-Russia. Money is what talks. We all have our problems and we ourselves are our first priorities.

Sir Jagjinatt

I complete agree with you, no country is saint.

Even if your hypothetical is true, there is no doubt, till now, China has always been there for us, supporting us economically and politically.

Thus they are considered as a true friend for us, even though there is a catch in their deals, both of us benefits in the end didn't it? but till they day they leave us our and kicked us just like USA, then you have proven me wrong. But till then, its just a speculation. However, whatever you have mention is not what I am aiming to prove

The Indians (sorry, but its true) posting on this forum believe that just because of this small link here, that China has already showed its true colours.

Honestly, they are a lot of reasons why China did that, and that's what I am aiming to proof,

And by using backup of what China has done to us, this deal about not linking from Pakistan to China is nothing for us.

 

[Mallu]

Sir Jagjinatt

I complete agree with you, no country is saint.

Even if your hypothetical is true, there is no doubt, till now, China has always been there for us, supporting us economically and politically.

Thus they are considered as a true friend for us, even though there is a catch in their deals, both of us benefits in the end didn't it? but till they day they leave us our and kicked us just like USA, then you have proven me wrong. But till then, its just a speculation. However, whatever you have mention is not what I am aiming to prove

The Indians (sorry, but its true) posting on this forum believe that just because of this small link here, that China has already showed its true colours.

Honestly, they are a lot of reasons why China did that, and that's what I am aiming to proof,

And by using backup of what China has done to us, this deal about not linking from Pakistan to China is nothing for us.

now i will tell you the truth.
During India Pak war in 1971 China was supposed to attack India (as per secret deal between US-China-Pakistan), but china refused
Did they do--------- NO
why??
They dint want to ruin their economy by fighting somebody else war

Links http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/51448-nixons-dislike-witch-indira.html