China says Australia should consider Japan's war history before submarine contract

[jhungary]

Viet people are first and foremost pariots. we say "yeu nuoc", meaning "love the water", or patriot. Vietnam has a lot of rivers. it rains a lot especially in summer. we never say "love government". even the most anti commie haters in America and elsewhere send money home to family or visit family and relatives in Vietnam. there is no difference in patriotism between the North or South Vietnamese. we may dislike the government, but we never hate our motherland.

Very rightly said.

As I said some days ago on another post. Government comes and goes, but people and country stays forever, it's quite naïve to think one allegiance lies in one government, but should always be with the country and its people.

Something it probably lost in translation to these people out here.

Even tho I don't like China, how my mother feel betrayed by the Chinese (She actually first went to Hainan before shipping all the way to Hong Kong after being rob and turned away by the Chinese Coastguard) but yet, she still went back (and that's before the Chinese market bloom.) and build house and share her wealth to her relative in China.

What is truly sad is that multitude of Japanese academics and patriots have the same view as I. LOL.

Did i not say to @TaiShang of the "fit of rage" that would be leveled on Japan?

I prove myself right.

.

Actually, you just prove yourselves wrong.

No one level the blame of your changing of tone to the Japanese. Unless you are ego enough and narcissistic enough to think you actually represent the whole of Japan.

We all have a problem with your tone, not what you stand for, you can be Pro-Martians for all we care, but your tone change is what we don't get.

Well, I guess you have your way on whatever you are doing, and I hope you achieve that, but again, please do not say you are pragmatic or ambiguous, cause you ain't.

 

[Viet]

Very rightly said.

As I said some days ago on another post. Government comes and goes, but people and country stays forever, it's quite naïve to think one allegiance lies in one government, but should always be with the country and its people.

Something it probably lost in translation to these people out here.

Even tho I don't like China, how my mother feel betrayed by the Chinese (She actually first went to Hainan before shipping all the way to Hong Kong after being rob and turned away by the Chinese Coastguard) but yet, she still went back (and that's before the Chinese market bloom.) and build house and share her wealth to her relative in China.

exactly, government comes and goes, the land stays. so the sentiment of most our people. when we think of VN, we think of the rivers, the mountains, the people, the villages, the foods, the place where we grew up. never a system. the Viet people tend to say: politics is something for politicians.

 

[gambit]

And that National Unification was done not by the South, but completed , the mandate i mean, by Hanoi.

Hanoi unified Viet Nam. And not only that ejected American interventionalism.

But Soviet and Chinese interventionism are acceptable ? Of course it is. How foolish of me...

Secondly, it also proved American Domino Theory false since after the fall of Saigon and Laos and Cambodia, the rest of SEATO did not collapse.

Actually, it proved the theory correct because Lee Kwan Yew pretty much thanked America for getting involved in Vietnam since it delayed the spread of communism long enough for the rest of Asia get their shit together. Lee did not say it in such profane terms, of course. But he meant it the same. Lee confronted Deng Xiaoping on China's racist radio broadcasts to overseas Chinese urging them to turn against host governments. The US may have 'lost' in Viet Nam, but effectively won the rest of Asia.

 

[Aepsilons]

There is history and then there is persisting to live in history.

The generation of Japanese that committed the war crimes are no longer alive. And if they are, they are either deposed or physically incapable of doing anything significant to further continue those atrocities.

It is important to let go of past actions and not punish the current generation if they haven't done anything along the lines of their predecessors.

Japan has no interest in attacking China today and surely Chinese also don't have that interest.

Here in PDF, we have been talking about Asian Union and North East Asian Union and what not.

How is that possible when we keep holding the past against the present generation who is not repeating their predecessors' actions?

They are innocent and they feel bad about what happened in the past.

Chinese members, you and us in India suffered the British colonialism and also from French, Portuguese and other smaller countries. While my state was aligned with British for a while, much to my regret, it is easy to understand what our collective modern countries suffered from in those days.

But can you blame today's British when you walk around the streets of London, Birmingham or Manchester? No. They would just keep walking with a small smile on their face and a short nod. Who knows you might even befriend many as a tourist. There are some racist pricks but not all of them are that way.

What Shiro Ishi's military did with common Chinese is not the fault of Japanese people.

Let go of the past; forgive them the way we all forgave the central Asian and muslim countries for invading us.

If you hold onto the past pain, it will needlessly continue into the future.

Eloquently said, my friend.

 

[gambit]

There is history and then there is persisting to live in history.

The generation of Japanese that committed the war crimes are no longer alive.

But our JPNese member declared that he is following in the footsteps of those who committed those crimes.

 

[Aepsilons]

But Soviet and Chinese interventionism are acceptable ? Of course it is. How foolish of me...

Its rather simple, actually. Through the machinations of China and the USSR, Viet Nam received not only political but also military aid to resist American aerial bombings of North Viet Nam, and continue the offensive on the Militaries of South Viet Nam and the United States. Without the moral as well as material aid from both China and the USSR, North Vietnam would have been unable to resist American interventionism. Simple, really.

Your view point is rather understandable, however, through appropriate political ethnography.

 

[gambit]

Its rather simple, actually. Through the machinations of China and the USSR, Viet Nam received not only political but also military aid to resist American aerial bombings of North Viet Nam, and continue the offensive on the Militaries of South Viet Nam and the United States. Without the moral as well as material aid from both China and the USSR, North Vietnam would have been unable to resist American interventionism. Simple, really.

Your view point is rather understandable, however, through appropriate political ethnography.

Actually, Soviet and Chinese machinations in Viet Nam predate American involvement. But never mind such trivial errors from you...

Are you saying that it was morally right for Soviet and Chinese machinations but morally wrong for US and Vietnamese who do not want communism in their country ?

 

[Aepsilons]

Actually, Soviet and Chinese machinations in Viet Nam predate American involvement. But never mind such trivial errors from you...

Are you saying that it was morally right for Soviet and Chinese machinations but morally wrong for US and Vietnamese who do not want communism in their country ?

My opinion of whether it was morally right or wrong is of no consequence. It does not change the historical developments on the ground, which I'm stating objectively. I suppose I am approaching this through the organic nation states model in context to liberational philosophy. And the fact that Viet Nam received Soviet and Chinese interventionism means that there is more historical relationship in the Vietnamese struggle against foreign Imperialism.

 

[gambit]

My opinion of whether it was morally right or wrong is of no consequence. It does not change the historical developments on the ground, which I'm stating objectively. I suppose I am approaching this through the organic nation states model in context to liberational philosophy. And the fact that Viet Nam received Soviet and Chinese interventionism means that there is more historical relationship in the Vietnamese struggle against foreign Imperialism.

So now not only were you deceitful, you are now a moral coward.

You are so desperate to discredit me that you resort to twisting historical timeline to suit. Either you are ignorant of the issue of the Vietnam War, like most of the Chinese members here, or you are knowledgeable of it but did not expect to meet someone who does know and is exposing your lies.

 

[Aepsilons]

So now not only were you deceitful, you are now a moral coward.

You are so desperate to discredit me that you resort to twisting historical timeline to suit. Either you are ignorant of the issue of the Vietnam War, like most of the Chinese members here, or you are knowledgeable of it but did not expect to meet someone who does know and is exposing your lies.

You are entitled to have you opinions as I am with mine. What is evident and clear is your continuous and unmitigated anti-Chinese positions makes for debates and intellectual growth limited since you are, as you have shown , prone to going on personal attack when exposed to a person who is not agreeing with your point of view. This totality you have against Chinese seems to now have included Japanese and even myself for differing views to your own. Instead of merely , with civility, disagreeing to conjectures, you go on a negative a personally Vindictive route.

You are in err, sir.

Regards.

 

[gambit]

You are entitled to have you opinions as I am with mine. What is evident and clear is your continuous and unmitigated anti-Chinese positions makes for debates and intellectual growth limited since you are, as you have shown , prone to going on personal attack when exposed to a person who is not agreeing with your point of view. This totality you have against Chinese seems to now have included Japanese and even myself for differing views to your own. Instead of merely , with civility, disagreeing to conjectures, you go on a negative a personally Vindictive route.


Regards.

Challenging your view is not a personal attack. Even when I called you a moral coward, it was based upon a question of moral importance that you evaded.

So am going to ask you a much simpler one: Is it morally wrong to resist communism ?

 

[mike2000 is back]

I suppose China is against Japan's embedding into integrating further in the American Alliance System. As is natural. There is nothing wrong in stating diplomatic protest. It is simple diplomatic procedure.

Ahahahah......well you liberated them from western imperialism isn't it Nihonjin san? The Chinese should be thanking Japan instead of complainng about Japans war crimes.

 

[Aepsilons]

Challenging your view is not a personal attack. Even when I called you a moral coward, it was based upon a question of moral importance that you evaded.

So am going to ask you a much simpler one: Is it morally wrong to resist communism ?

No, your other posts here were in an attack of my character, when I DID NOT even attack you on that kind of level. I merely tried to infer another view point, to learn more about the paradigm comprehensively. Why is engaging on discourse tantamount to 'betrayal' or 'stabbing one in the back' when that is not so. You know perfectly well what your intent was.

I have on numerous occasions here defended you and even received hard blows on your behalf when you were being personally attacked by some members here in PDF. YOU know that. And to be attacked by you just because we have some differing views on some topic is what i don't understand from you, by shear principle. I had considered you a great mentor to me here in PDF and have followed your posts for a LONG TIME before i joined here. Because of your knowledge on naval systems. But what i don't understand is your proclivity on going below the belt and engaging in libel.

You have injured me, Sir. I don't really care so much about Jhungary as i never considered him a mentor, really. But you, you were one of my greatest admirations here.



Sincerely.

 

[gambit]

Ahahahah......well you liberated them from western imperialism isn't it Nihonjin san? The Chinese should be thanking Japan instead of complainng about Japans war crimes.

Better that it was a JPNese Unit 731 than a white man's version of it.

 

[Nike]

Ahahahah......well you liberated them from western imperialism isn't it Nihonjin san? The Chinese should be thanking Japan instead of complainng about Japans war crines.

Although Japan must thank to the western for teaching them a lot of thing about Imperialism, LoL