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China Ruins US Plans to Bring Venezuela to Its Knees

I guess Venezuela would be happy to decouple from depending too much on the US for its crude export. Hence, diverting a considerable percent of the existing production to China would

1. help Venezuela to decrease its reliance on Washington and
2. help China to diversify its energy sources, decreasing its reliance on the Gulf (especially, Saudi Arabia).
Also, this would help decrease US influence on China through Saudi Arabia along with GCC's. Thus China can make its own decisions regarding what to say and against whom to say for actions in the region.
 
Also, this would help decrease US influence on China through Saudi Arabia along with GCC's. Thus China can make its own decisions regarding what to say and against whom to say for actions in the region.

Exactly. Therefore, 10billion or even more is not beyond repayment. In fact, it would be a further incentive for both governments.

Personally, I wish to see China to decouple from the Gulf to Latin America and Iran on its crude import.
 
Exactly. Therefore, 10billion or even more is not beyond repayment. In fact, it would be a further incentive for both governments.

Personally, I wish to see China to decouple from the Gulf to Latin America and Iran on its crude import.
Latin America has less regional conflicts, thus you can get oil from them without the risk of being dragged into a conflict.

Also, it acts as a counter-measure to US trying to expand itself in the region surrounding China. Also China can take gas from Iran instead of overly relying on Russia, maybe extend that pipeline from Pakistan into Western China, a region that hasn't seen much of development as the East.

You also forgot bout Russia, you do buy oil from them.
 
You forget Venezuela has plenty of oil?
You did not know that Venezuela crude is considered to be among the crappiest oil in the world, and that the world's best refiners for Orinoco crude are in the US ?
 
crude_oil_imports_source.png


Actually, Russia was one of the top three sources of crude oil in 2013. That's poised to further grow, especially with new proposed pipelines coming online.

I would still call 20% Saudi share an over-reliance. Venezuela should take some 10% of it.
 
dislike?? I dislike Chavistas. I dislike them because all they do everyday is blame gringos and imperialism for their problems.

socialism is crap especially when it ran by quacks like Chavez and now Maduro.

they'll blame everyone else before they say 21st socialism was a failure because of Chavez.

thanks China the ride will continue. maybe next time you can actually use that money to help them become self sufficient to grow their own food in Venezuela and make their own toilet paper :alcoholic:

That's the core problem; blaming self-failures on others. Socialism or Capitalism in extremes never works.

When the former is extreme there will be good safety and facilities but no growth or wealth; when the latter is extreme there will be no feelings of humanity and will lead to civilizational collapse.

A balanced rational approach is needed. Venezuela really needs to pull up its socks.
 
Nico Maduro and Hugo Chavez are too naive and pussy to think that the rich will leave them alone. If Fidel Castro is in charge, I bet Venezuela can function as it is without the need for any external aid.

Venezuela crisis seems to me more like the rich sabotaging the country by means of capital flight. Today it is not uncommon for the top 1% to control 50% of wealth even in USA. The banana states are worse.

The 1% can trigger a crisis by capital outflow.

Mao is more clear regarding the mentality of elites.

What Mao did was to kill them and their family and confiscate their wealth.

I watch TV of Venezuela. I keep seeing these TV ridiculing Chavez and Maduro, and the socialist leadership of Venezuela do not take action.

The moment Muduro show the rich guillotine and impose more severe form of capital control, and better, wealth confiscation, Cubanizing Venezuela, her supermarket will be well-stocked.
 
Nico Maduro and Hugo Chavez are too naive and pussy to think that the rich will leave them alone. If Fidel Castro is in charge, I bet Venezuela can function as it is without the need for any external aid.
You just lost the bet...

Cuba – Russia Now and Then
The Soviet Union took advantage of the favorable situation for it to meddle and decided to come to Cuba’s assistance on February 13, 1960. It did this in order to gain influence in the Western Hemisphere, marking the inauguration of the modern Cuban-Soviet relationship. Representatives from both leftist governments signed a trade agreement which became the basis for further economic cooperation. In this agreement, the Soviet Union committed to purchase 425,000 tons of sugar in 1960, and from 1961 to 1964 one million tons sugar annually. Furthermore, Nikita Khrushchev granted Havana a 100 million U.S.-dollar credit at a very low interest (2.5 %) and promised to sell oil to Cuba below world market prices. This enabled Cuba to once again rely on its sugar industry to buoy the Cuban economy because of Russia’s guarantee of a stable market and further economic aid. As a result, Cuba became nearly totally dependent on the Soviet Union.

Soviet Said to Reduce Support for Cuban Economy - NYTimes.com
The Soviet Union is reducing its support for the Cuban economy, according to documents of the Cuban National Bank obtained by a human rights group and made public today.

For nearly three decades the Soviet Union, which generally accounts for 80 percent of Cuba's international trade, has been Cuba's principal supplier of oil, food, machinery, spare parts, chemicals and other vital materials.

Venezuela crisis seems to me more like the rich sabotaging the country by means of capital flight. Today it is not uncommon for the top 1% to control 50% of wealth even in USA. The banana states are worse.

The 1% can trigger a crisis by capital outflow.

Mao is more clear regarding the mentality of elites.

What Mao did was to kill them and their family and confiscate their wealth.


I watch TV of Venezuela. I keep seeing these TV ridiculing Chavez and Maduro, and the socialist leadership of Venezuela do not take action.

The moment Muduro show the rich guillotine and impose more severe form of capital control, and better, wealth confiscation, Cubanizing Venezuela, her supermarket will be well-stocked.
Yup...And it worked out really well for China...Too bad the later generation of Chinese communists are too stupid to continue Mao's wisdom.
 
As if the US need to put Venezuela down. They did it themselves after decade of failed social policy and over reliance on oil.

Maduro needs to be overthrown for the sake of Venezuela.
 
You just lost the bet...

Cuba – Russia Now and Then


Soviet Said to Reduce Support for Cuban Economy - NYTimes.com



Yup...And it worked out really well for China...Too bad the later generation of Chinese communists are too stupid to continue Mao's wisdom.

Without USSR, Cuba survive fine. Cuba traded with USSR doing a Ricardo.

Without trade and subsidy from USSR, Cuba merely lower standards of living. She does not crumble.

As if the US need to put Venezuela down. They did it themselves after decade of failed social policy and over reliance on oil.

Maduro needs to be overthrown for the sake of Venezuela.

The contribution of Chavez and Maduro towards the Venezuela people are immense. Chavez provide free healthcare to the people where the rich elites have never done. The rich are trying to sabotage Chavez free healthcare.

Mission Barrio Adentro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mission Barrio Adentro (English: "Mission Inside the Neighborhood") is a Bolivarian national social welfare program established under late Venezuelan president Hugo Chávez. The program seeks to provide comprehensive publicly funded health care, dental care, and sports training to poor and marginalized communities in Venezuela. Barrio Adentro features the construction of thousands of iconic two-storey medical clinics—consultorios or doctor’s offices—as well as staffing with resident certified medical professionals. Barrio Adentro constitutes an attempt to deliver a de facto form of universal healthcare, seeking to guarantee access to quality and cradle-to-grave medical attention for all Venezuelan citizens.

The Latin American branch of the World Health Organization and UNICEF both praised the program.[1][2] According to WHO statistics infant mortality fell from 23 to 20 in males and 19 to 17 in females per 1000 births between 2003 and 2005.[3][4] In addition, Russian representatives have visited Venezuelan neighborhoods in order to study Venezuelan public clinics and Russian officials are considering implementing a similar program in Russia.

Of a planned 8500 Barrio Adentro I centers, 2708 had been built by May, 2007, using an investment of around US$126m, with a further 3284 under construction.[5] As of 2006, the staff included 31,439 professionals, technical personnel, and health technicians, of which 15,356 were Cuban doctors and 1,234 Venezuelan doctors.[6]

In 2014, the government celebrated 11 years of the mission announcing that over 10,000 clinics were created.[7] In Caracas, Mission Barrio Adentro I and II centers in 32 parishes were the subject of constant complaints about performance even after being funded Bs 1.492 million by the government. Councilman Alejandro Vivas stated that "instead of having positive results, what is observed is the discontent of the citizens performance leaves much to be desired".[8] As of December 2014, it was estimated that 80% of Barrio Adentro establishments were abandoned in Venezuela.[9]


Abandonment
In July 2007, Douglas León Natera, chairman of The Venezuelan Medical Federation, reported that up to 70% of the modules of Barrio Adentro have been either abandoned or were left unfinished.[22] In some cases it is said that elected opposition officials have tried to impede or close existing Missions. In 2006 Chávez accused the governor of Zulia state of impeding Barrio Adentro there.[23] As of December 2014, it was estimated that 80% of Barrio Adentro establishments were abandoned with reports of some structures being filled with trash or being unintentional shelter for the homeless.[9]

According to investigative journalist Patricia Marcano, in 2010 memory the Venezuelan government promised to start 357 clinics but only 148 were completed. In 2012, 298 clinics were promised, while 175 were made and in 2013, 62 were promised, but only 35 were constructed.[21]
 
Without USSR, Cuba survive fine. Cuba traded with USSR doing a Ricardo.

Without trade and subsidy from USSR, Cuba merely lower standards of living. She does not crumble.
You were talking about aid, not trade. The whole world knew that when the Soviets the leader of the communist bloc during the Cold War, Soviet aid was vital to many communist countries, including China. But I guess that under the communist system, aid and trade can be blurred.

Free health care ? It is sad that whenever Marxists and communists have to defend the failures of their ideology, free health care is the only thing they can come up with. Wonder why Cubans risks lives and limbs to come to the US when we do not have free health care. It must be the gross failure of Cuban and Venezuelan propaganda in not emphasizing how much better is communism thanks to free health care. :rolleyes:
 
lol, its quite fun to see people know anything about Latin American situation comment on said topic...

The reason why Chavez hate America is the American cut funding after chavez nationalize the Oil Foundry whichhave a lot of US capital in it to double Venezuela own GDP, all in the while asking for US to keep invest in it.

None of his allegation turns out to be true after both US and Venezuela investigation. Venezuela is doing exactly what they were doing to the US now, only firstly, they are doing it to China, and secondly, they are flat broke.

US have write off relationship to Venezuela as early as 2008, and now you are saying US losing Venezuela will somehow damage the US in latin american influence? Well, it did nothing to the US when oil price is 101 per barrel, would you think it will do something now when the price is halved?
 
You were talking about aid, not trade. The whole world knew that when the Soviets the leader of the communist bloc during the Cold War, Soviet aid was vital to many communist countries, including China. But I guess that under the communist system, aid and trade can be blurred.

Free health care ? It is sad that whenever Marxists and communists have to defend the failures of their ideology, free health care is the only thing they can come up with. Wonder why Cubans risks lives and limbs to come to the US when we do not have free health care. It must be the gross failure of Cuban and Venezuelan propaganda in not emphasizing how much better is communism thanks to free health care. :rolleyes:

Mao China provide even worse quality doctor than Venezuela or Cuba today, the so call bare foot doctor who provide basic healthcare. The bare foot doctor system save a lot of life.

Barefoot doctor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Today Cuba has better infant mortality rate than USA, despite of wealth of USA and her advance medical system. Cuba is also being embargo and cannot have access to good medicine and equipment. The reason is your elites would rather you guys die in order to rake up healthcare cost.

Cuba’s infant mortality rate at its lowest level ever » peoplesworld

Our infant mortality rate is a national embarrassment - The Washington Post
 
Mao China provide even worse quality doctor than Venezuela or Cuba today, the so call bare foot doctor who provide basic healthcare. The bare foot doctor system save a lot of life.

Barefoot doctor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Today Cuba has better infant mortality rate than USA, despite of wealth of USA and her advance medical system. Cuba is also being embargo and cannot have access to good medicine and equipment. The reason is your elites would rather you guys die in order to rake up healthcare cost.

Cuba’s infant mortality rate at its lowest level ever » peoplesworld

Our infant mortality rate is a national embarrassment - The Washington Post

lol do you know how Chavez support education project and "free" health care to his own people?

Dude, bear in mind he done that in 2006 when petrol dollar is 80 to 100 per barrel, do you even know the Health Care system in venezuela is all but wipe out during the petrol dollar crisis? Now you are lucky to find a functioning hospital to treat you if you are sick. Its fine and dandy when the money come flushing in, what if the money ran dry? Even the russian look the other way, just look at how venezuela ask the Russian for second batch of Su-30...

I understand you or some people here harbor anti US setiment, but dude, not all anti US president or pm are great, you do know there are more venezuelan hate their current government than American, well, the american, they simply dont care...
 

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