China military stresses Party control in face of 'liberal' enemies

[cnleio]

CCP

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

CCP

Why not China? Why not Chinese people?

Let's say if CCP gives PLA the order to massacre one full town. I am sure PLA will give the CPC middle finger.

 

[chauism]

Well i agree both with some Chinese members and bussard on here . The CCP is indeed the ruling party in china, so the army /military ought to listen to /follow the ruling party /government /presidents orders like it does in the West and everywhere else. So nothing different /special about that. in this regard, i agree with Chinese members here.

However. Bussard is correct when he says corruption /nepotism and favoritism in the military and party can indeed be a big threat to the party survival /control over the Army /country. If the party doesn't evolve /reforms then it too will be consumed by these 3 great ills i mentioned and topple as well just like the party toppled it's predecessor KMT before it rose to power. So I agree with bussard that as Lee Kwan yu said : "Either you make fundamental changes, and change power by consensus, or there will be a revolution with violence." that's indeed a very important statement which the CCP has to bare in mind.

Also the main problem with the CCP just like with any other communist one party state (like Vietnam. North Korea or Cambodia) is that the Party comes before the country /state and the party is above both the constitution and everything else. In short, the Party is the state. Any public criticism

In this regard, although corruption/nepotism does exist in the military and party, but it might not as bad as many made it out to be especially now Xi is in charge. Unlike North Korea in this matter CPC, and Vietnam as well, no single one holds the absolutely power in the country. The decisions from Politburo have to be consensus from its standing committee members. CPC itself was without factions within. The reason that earlier those corruption was somewhat tolerated by CPC was because it was the byproduct of compromise made by different factions. Don't forget that China just embraced capitalism for 30 something years. Do you remember how many corruptions there were in the 90's when Republic of Korea was under a democractic system? By the looks of it, CPC under Xi's leadership is starting to clean its house now.

As a british yourself, I have to point out to you that during the 70's HK under british rules was at its worst when it comes to corruption. Firefighters won't even put out fire for you if you don't pay a small bribary. It wasn't until the establishment ICAC, then things started to get better, and now HK is one of the most corruption free area in Asia. As the chief of HK ICAC said that most important thing in fighting corruption is political will. For CPC, there is nothing to gain by tolerating corruption any longer, and it is very counter-intuitive for them to do so if they are so fixed on staying power. For Xi himself, by allowing corruption exists in his own faction also gives great weapon for his oppenent to use against him especially he is leading the anti-corruption campaign.

Why not China? Why not Chinese people?

Let's say if CCP gives PLA the order to massacre one full town. I am sure PLA will give the CPC middle finger.

I don't know why you are going on circles with this when you already answered your question. If someone, that is a very big if, to give that order, not only the PLA will tell him to fxxk off, but also members of CMC as well.

 

[tranquilium]

Is the loyalty to Chinese people, or CCP? @Tractor @ChineseTiger1986

It's the same thing. A stable nation's army is loyal to its legitimate government. US military force is also loyal to the ruling government with the president being the overall head where the military reports to.

Why not China? Why not Chinese people?

Let's say if CCP gives PLA the order to massacre one full town. I am sure PLA will give the CPC middle finger.

Didn't you just start a thread on Tiananmen a few days ago, where quite a few people, including myself, has already spent a lot of time informing you the circumstances at the incident? Gee, I wonder why the armed force of a nation isn't at the beck and call of rioters. I have to ask, did you actually think about the issue before making this kind of comment?

 

[Edison Chen]

It's the same thing. A stable nation's army is loyal to its legitimate government. US military force is also loyal to the ruling government with the president being the overall head where the military reports to.

错，军队是党用来掌控政府的，不然共产党凭什么一党专政，枪杆子里出政权。

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Loyal to the Chinese people at the command of CPC.

BTW, the OP is the biggest troll in the Chinese section, and most Chinese members should request the mods to give him a permanent ban.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Didn't you just start a thread on Tiananmen a few days ago, where quite a few people, including myself, has already spent a lot of time informing you the circumstances at the incident? Gee, I wonder why the armed force of a nation isn't at the beck and call of rioters. I have to ask, did you actually think about the issue before making this kind of comment?

Hence, I asked the question. If you read my thread, I said that I agree with what was done.

For me, this question is kind of a hypothetical scenario to test situations.

Loyal to the Chinese people at the command of CPC.

BTW, the OP is the biggest troll in the Chinese section, and most Chinese members should request the mods to give him a permanent ban.

Exactly, this is what you say. But the question itself arises if or when CPC isn't loyal to Chinese people.

Also, an offhand question: Are you a CPC member?

Finally, why are you calling me a troll? Because I ask tough questions? Because I am trying to peer and make you think uncomfortable things? Also, why even join a forum if you are so uncomfortable with hearing the opposite side?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Exactly, this is what you say. But the question itself arises if or when CPC isn't loyal to Chinese people.

Also, an offhand question: Are you a CPC member?

Finally, why are you calling me a troll? Because I ask tough questions? Because I am trying to peer and make you think uncomfortable things? Also, why even join a forum if you are so uncomfortable with hearing the opposite side?

No, none of us have the affiliation with CPC.

But like the majority of the Chinese in PRC, we believe that CPC is the most suitable entity to rule over China, no other party could do a better job to govern over a such massive country like China.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

No, none of us have the affiliation with CPC.

But like the majority of the Chinese in PRC, we believe that CPC is the most suitable entity to rule over China, no other party could do a better job to govern over a such massive country like China.

Even I think that. Trust me.

Today, and in the near future, like say 15-20 years, CPC has got the legitimacy to rule. It also has generally done a great job.

But my whole point is about today. I want to speculate on things that can go wrong, or things that must change in future. Nothing can be static right? Everything must evolve.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Even I think that. Trust me.

Today, and in the near future, like say 15-20 years, CPC has got the legitimacy to rule. It also has generally done a great job.

But my whole point is about today. I want to speculate on things that can go wrong, or things that must change in future. Nothing can be static right? Everything must evolve.

Nothing will change, just like the US was born as a Christian country, so it will remain as a Christian country as expected.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Nothing will change, just like the US was born as a Christian country, so it will remain as a Christian country as expected.

The US has evolved way too much. Initially it started as a capitalist paradise, for the white men only. Other races couldn't have been the part of the US, they were doomed to indenture or slavery.

Slowly, it removed slavery.

It also redefined itself, as the paradise for all races, built by immigrants to be "free."

The idea of US has changed a lot.

Also, US while in its beginning may have been slightly religious, today in its law and working is absolutely not. People are allowed to practice religion or not do it, and do all sorts of shit against other religions.

Nothing will change, just like the US was born as a Christian country, so it will remain as a Christian country as expected.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The First Amendment.

And it has been hold true always. So it is extremely dishonest of you to claim the otherwise.

There may be a strong Christian lobby in US, which might even get some things done, but US courts can strike down populist legislation. And they have consistently done so.

Also, for China, it will be very dangerous for you to have this attitude of "no change." Everything must evolve with time, or else it will fade. Simple.
And CCP has already done that. It has moved and changed itself many times, like the disasters of Cultural Revolution, the constant revolutionary atmosphere, the disaster of collective farming, and socialist policies in general. The disaster of closing doors to the world etc etc.

 

[chauism]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The First Amendment.

And it has been hold true always. So it is extremely dishonest of you to claim the otherwise.

There may be a strong Christian lobby in US, which might even get some things done, but US courts can strike down populist legislation. And they have consistently done so.

Also, for China, it will be very dangerous for you to have this attitude of "no change." Everything must evolve with time, or else it will fade. Simple.
And CCP has already done that. It has moved and changed itself many times, like the disasters of Cultural Revolution, the constant revolutionary atmosphere, the disaster of collective farming, and socialist policies in general. The disaster of closing doors to the world etc etc.

According to the consititution of US, the president elect can take oath on a playboy magzine as president if he wants to, yet when was the last time US had a president not puting his hand firmly on a bible when he take the oath during his inauguration ceremony? That is already 226 years since Philadelphia Convention.

The US has evolved way too much. Initially it started as a capitalist paradise, for the white men only. Other races couldn't have been the part of the US, they were doomed to indenture or slavery.

Slowly, it removed slavery.

It also redefined itself, as the paradise for all races, built by immigrants to be "free."

The idea of US has changed a lot.

Also, US while in its beginning may have been slightly religious, today in its law and working is absolutely not. People are allowed to practice religion or not do it, and do all sorts of shit against other religions.

And you are talking as if CPC can not change. By all means the changes CPC made regarding how the country should run were more dramatic and in a shorter period than US had. Don't forget only some 30 years ago, China still had a planned economy with little or no room for capitalism.

 

[dlclong]

LOL，US troops are serving in Who?
The American people?
The US government，Or 2 parties under the control of Wall Street and arms dealers?


China's military service for the Chinese people, the Communist Party or the Chinese government command

 

[JSCh]

Also, if an army is used to suppress one's own people, then that is essentially a thug of an army, meant to promote dictatorship.

Finally, don't forget where you are coming from. CCP itself overthrew someone. If you don't create right conditions, you will be overthrown.

FYI, PLA image in China is very, very positive. Since you said you know Chinese citizen in China, you would be able to know that. You statement above is rude and uncalled for.

In western country, a party losing power and changing to another party is part of the system. But in China it is different, CCP losing power meant a complete overthrow of the current system. Which the PLA is tasked to defend. Like how the military is tasked to uphold the constitution in many country.

Whether PLA is command by CCP or any other entity make no difference. Because it is virtually impossible in practice to replace CCP through legitimate or constitutional means. That leave only the option of overthrowing CCP through violent mean. And no country military would or should allow that to happen under whatsoever command-ship.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

FYI, PLA image in China is very, very positive. Since you said you know Chinese citizen in China, you would be able to know that. You statement above is rude and uncalled for.

In western country, a party losing power and changing to another party is part of the system. But in China it is different, CCP losing power meant a complete overthrow of the current system. Which the PLA is tasked to defend. Like how the military is tasked to defend the constitution in many country.

I realize that PLA has a positive image right now. What I'm talking about are hypotheticals, speculations.

I have already said that CCP is doing a great job right now.