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China may have F-22 rival by 2018

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ay.21 (China Military News cited from Reuters) -- China is building an advanced combat jet that may rival within eight years Lockheed Martin Corp's F-22 Raptor, the premier US fighter, a US intelligence official said.

The date cited for the expected deployment is years ahead of previous Pentagon public forecasts and may be a sign that China's rapid military build-up is topping many experts' expectations.

"We're anticipating China to have a fifth-generation fighter ... operational right around 2018," Wayne Ulman of the National Air and space Intelligence Centre testified yesterday to a congressionally mandated group that studies national security implications of US-China economic ties.
f-22-rival-1.jpg

"Fifth-generation" fighters feature cutting-edge capabilities, including shapes, materials and propulsion systems designed to make them look as small as a swallow on enemy radar screens.

Defence Secretary Robert Gates had said last year that China "is projected to have no fifth-generation aircraft by 2020" and only a "handful" by 2025.

He made the comments on July 16 to the Economic Club of Chicago while pushing Congress to cap F-22 production at 187 planes in an effort to save billions of dollars in the next decade.

Ulman is China "issues manager" at the centre that is the US military's prime intelligence producer on foreign air and space forces, weapons and systems. He said China's military was eyeing options for possible use of force against taiwan, which Beijing deems a rogue province.

The People's Liberation Army, as part of its taiwan planning, also is preparing to counter "expected US intervention in support of taiwan," he told the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission.

He said the PLA's strategy included weakening US air power by striking air bases, aircraft carrier strike groups and support elements if the US stepped in.

Attacks against US "basing infrastructure" in the western Pacific would be carried out by China's air force along with an artillery corps' conventional cruise missile and ballistic missile forces, he said outlining what he described as a likely scenario.

He described China as a "hard target" for intelligence-gathering and said there were a lot of unknowns about its next fighter, a follow-on to nearly 500 4th generation fighters "that can be considered at a technical parity" with older US fighters.

"It's yet to be seen exactly how (the next generation) will compare one on one with say an F-22," Ulman told the commission. "But it'll certainly be in that ballpark."

Lockheed Martin, the Pentagon's No 1 supplier by sales, is in the early stages of producing another fifth-generation fighter, the F-35. Developed with eight partner countries in three models with an eye to achieving economies of scale and export sales, it will not fly as fast or as high as the F-22.

Gates has argued that the United States enjoys a lopsided advantage in fighters, warships and other big-ticket military hardware. Some US congressional decisions on arms programs amount to overkill, out of touch with "real-world" threats and today's economic strains, he said in two speeches on the issue this month.

"For example, should we really be up in arms over a temporary projected shortfall of about 100 Navy and Marine strike fighters relative to the number of carrier wings, when America's military possesses more than 3,200 tactical combat aircraft of all kinds?" Gates said on May 8.
f-22-rival-2.jpg

China says its J-10B is a 4th generation fighter

"Is it a dire threat that by 2020 the United States will have only 20 times more advanced stealth fighters than China?" he added at the Eisenhower presidential library in Abilene, Kansas.

Geoff Morrell, the Pentagon press secretary, discounted the gap between the timelines cited by Gates and Ulman. He declined to comment on whether China had made enough progress since last July to change intelligence on the next fighter's debut.

Richard Fisher, an expert on the Chinese military at the private International Assessment and strategy Centre, said Gates' decision to end F-22 production is proving to be "potentially very wrong."

"We will need more F-22s if we are going to adequately defend our interests," he said in an interview on Thursday at the hearing.

Bruce Lemkin, a US Air Force deputy undersecretary for ties to foreign air forces, told the commission he had visited taiwan twice in his official capacity and that the capabilities of taiwan's aging F-16s, also built by Lockheed, were not "keeping up."

Whether to meet taiwan's request for advanced F-16 fighters or upgrade the old ones was still under review by the Obama administration, he said before Ulman spoke.
http://www.china-defense-mashup.com/?p=6026
 
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China is building an advanced combat jet that may rival within eight years Lockheed Martin Corp's F-22 Raptor, the premier US fighter, a US intelligence official said
Well American intelligence can say that but the pseudo defense analysts we have on PDF are more resourceful so their stance will remain unchanged; "NO WAY" China is 50 years behind!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:
 
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I suspect the contention between the different dates for the Chinese stealth fighter is more about American internal politics than the reality of China's fighter program. Defence secretary Gates (who's done a good job from the American perspective) is fighting to trim the defence budget on orders from the president. All of the services have been fighting him on it and I think this is the way the Airforce is fighting back.
 
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could be sooner or later than 2018, you know the Chinese complete secrecy, it's why we know hardly anything about the plane.....

I'll trust the j-xx will give the f-22 a run for it's money.... :smokin:
 
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well the thing is US probably started working on a 5.5-6 generation fighter, so lets say in about 12-15 years we will see its first flight!
so the bottom line is US will always has an upper hand!
 
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the full capabilities of the F22 are not even in public domain .....can only assume the Chinese intelligence is far better informed .....
there is a doubt though .....all the "cutting edge " technologies like stealth , stovl , Supercruise etc were long demonstrated in various U.S fighter jets( B2 , f16, etc) where are the chinese equivalents ? .....also as far as avionics, engine development goes there seems to be a lot of grey areas....perhaps the Chinese have managed to deceive everyone wrt their R&D.....in any case 2018 is still a long way off.....time enough for the boeing sixth gen prototype to be launched......:cheers:
 
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How can they cite deployment date is when they don't know a percent of Chinese Stealth Fighter Program.

russians and Chinese are far behind although they're doing their best, I would assume 2020/2021 to be first flight of JXX or whatever it is designated.Then I could be wrong perhaps a couple of years earlier first flight test takes place.

6th generation would be unmanned but funding could be the problem.
us killed F-22 further production the revival of large scale production line could resume by 2016/18 under the pretext of russian and Chinese Stealth programs and is Certain. With that 6th generation will have to wait a little longer perhaps 2025+
UCAV/UAV programs and technologies are getting matured day by day with 5th gen is production by that time, we can assume that 6th generation would not be hard.
 
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How can they cite deployment date is when they don't even know a percent of Chinese Stealth Fighter Program.

russians and Chinese are far behind although they're doing their best, I would assume 2020/2021 to be first flight of JXX or whatever it is designated.Then I could be wrong perhaps a couple of years earlier first flight test takes place.

6th generation would be unmanned but funding could be the problem.
Considering us killed F-22 further production the revival of large scale production line could resume by 2016/18 under the pretext of russian and Chinese Stealth programs and is Certain. With that 6th generation will have to wait a little longer perhaps 2025+
UCAV/UAV programs and technologies are getting matured day by day with 5th gen is production we can assume that 6th generation would not be hard.

They can't know really. Read my post above about it being an internal budget battle. People often play around threat assessment to justify different programs costs.
 
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Umm, well, they say that more F-22s will be needed to defend American Interests.

Now, caution there, you mean invade other nations in close proximity of China and thus giving them the precise reason to speed up 5th Gen Fighter development or to defend against a delusional Chinese attack on American soil, which is not going to happen.


Americans really need to take their Psych medicines.
 
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Umm, well, they say that more F-22s will be needed to defend American Interests.

Now, caution there, you mean invade other nations in close proximity of China and thus giving them the precise reason to speed up 5th Gen Fighter development or to defend against a delusional Chinese attack on American soil, which is not going to happen.


Americans really need to take their Psych medicines.

Funny how you say them "Americans" but you live in America? It's folks like yourself who give immigrants a bad name. Don't go to a country you don't like simple! If you feel so strongly about America why come and make money, knowing full well you don;t like Americans. I guess you're the toy of Pakistani who tells everyone the are Indian in order to slide by without getting heckled loser.
 
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Funny how you say them "Americans" but you live in America? It's folks like yourself who give immigrants a bad name. Don't go to a country you don't like simple! If you feel so strongly about America why come and make money, knowing full well you don;t like Americans. I guess you're the toy of Pakistani who tells everyone the are Indian in order to slide by without getting heckled loser.

I'm sorry "Freedom " of speach works in both way so if you dont like it then you move. It's folks like yourself who give immigrants a bad name by arse licking every gora you see even if they take mick out of you because you are brown and from india (Pakistanis have dignity). Para is only speaking his mind like a true American and like every American that has critise Pakistan not doing enough on the War on Terror when Pakistan families had lost their sons , I think my friend here has every right to critise. :pakistan:
Besides I don't see India doing enough.
 
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Umm, well, they say that more F-22s will be needed to defend American Interests.

Now, caution there, you mean invade other nations in close proximity of China and thus giving them the precise reason to speed up 5th Gen Fighter development or to defend against a delusional Chinese attack on American soil, which is not going to happen.


Americans really need to take their Psych medicines.

Have you taken your meds yet then?;)

Poking aside, Did you mean F-22's are to be used to invade nations in close proximity to China, or were you referring to the invasion of Afghanistan and accusations/excercises against North Korea being used to unnerve China and force them to speed up their 5th Gen Fighter development so that Airforce planners can show this to congress to secure funds to build more F-22's for home defense?
 
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Funny how you say them "Americans" but you live in America? It's folks like yourself who give immigrants a bad name. Don't go to a country you don't like simple! If you feel so strongly about America why come and make money, knowing full well you don;t like Americans. I guess you're the toy of Pakistani who tells everyone the are Indian in order to slide by without getting heckled loser.

Think before you open your mouth. He may not be an American Citizen and if he is not, what right does he have to call himself an American? This self-hate is ugly.

It's selfish people like you those still in India complain about. You go to America and the moment you touch the runway at JFK you cannot wait to call yourself an American never to give India another thought. Do you know part of the reason why China is pulling ahead of India? We Chinese who are abroad never forget about China even in our adoptive home.

China's Reverse Brain Drain - BusinessWeek

and this tradition goes all the way back to the founding of the nation. When brilliant scientists like Qian Xuesen (one of the founders of NASA's Jet propulsion lab) returned to help jumpstart China's space program.
 
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Let us pray that the economy is going to be good enough to support a six generation fighter. Like I always say the conservatives see enemies everywhere around them while the true enemies of America are in fact, within.
 
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"Is it a dire threat that by 2020 the United States will have only 20 times more advanced stealth fighters than China?" he added at the Eisenhower presidential library in Abilene, Kansas.

20 times more advanced stealth...
I wonder what that means??!!

:undecided:
 
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