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China leaves US trailing in race to build warships,Beijing’s shipbuilding capacity 230 times greater than American yards, US intelligence admits

17 Ticons- 2,074

Burke Flight 1- 1,890

Burke Flight 2- 630

Burke Flight 2a- 4,032

Zumwalt class- 160

total of 8786






1, The USN only has 42 Burke 2A, not 44.

2, None would count nuclear submarines, that's a different game.


BTW: The US Pacific fleet has only 1500+ VLS while the Chinese navy has 5000+ VLS. the US can't deploy all its navy to the Pacific Ocean.




Comparing VLS is not fair to the US. The US has a much greater advantage in aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines. Let's be fair, the Chinese Navy's main ship is 2.4 million tons and the US Navy's main ship is 3.7 million tons. This is the most intuitive power gap.
But China's industrial scale is far stronger than that of the US, and those who still think that the US can always maintain naval superiority are only fooling themselves.
The worst problem is that China's warships produce everything from soldiers' underwear to radar and engines, and it does it all in-house. With China's industrial overproductivity, a massive order for warships would only stimulate China's economy. The same cannot be said for the US warship order, which will only put a heavier burden on the US economy.

The USN has 44 active 2a Burkes, not 42. Try again

And Another 2 Burke’s launched including the first Flight 3 with SPY-6 radar.

An additional 16 Burke’s are in various stages of construction and approval to build.

An yes we include nuclear submarines VLS tubes . It’d be idiotic not too.

Any war with China and the US will surge Naval power to the Pacific. The US spends 3.2% of its GDP currently on defense while in the 80s it was spending 6.8%. The US has huge room for defense spending ramp up.
 
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The USN has 44 active 2a Burkes, not 42. Try again

And Another 2 Burke’s launched including the first Flight 3 with SPY-6 radar.

An additional 16 Burke’s are in various stages of construction and approval to build.

An yes we include nuclear submarines VLS tubes . It’d be idiotic not too.

Any war with China and the US will surge Naval power to the Pacific. The US spends 3.2% of its GDP currently on defense while in the 80s it was spending 6.8%. The US has huge room for defense spending ramp up.
U.S. military spending in 2022 was $877 billion, amounting to 3.7% of GDP. China's military spending is 1.4% of GDP. At the time of the fall of the Soviet Union, military spending was 10.2% of GDP.

It's not you who have a lot of room for growth in military spending, it's us.

As I've said before, military orders even stimulate economic growth in countries like China that have excess industrial capacity. We are now like the US in WWII.
 
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U.S. military spending in 2022 was $877 billion, amounting to 3.7% of GDP. China's military spending is 1.4% of GDP. At the time of the fall of the Soviet Union, military spending was 10.2% of GDP.

It's not you who have a lot of room for growth in military spending, it's us.

As I've said before, military orders even stimulate economic growth in countries like China that have excess industrial capacity. We are now like the US in WWII.

Nope, the fiscal year 2024 defense budget is $877B and considering US GDP will reach $27T this year, it is indeed 3.2%. Try again
 
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Nope, the fiscal year 2024 defense budget is $877B and considering US GDP will reach $27T this year, it is indeed 3.2%. Try again


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I rest easier at night knowing Ohio Class SSBNs are roaming the deep waters of the world.
 
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The Soviets had a larger 650 ship Navy by the end of the Cold War that had global power projection capability. It never mattered.

The USN has over 10,000 VLS tubes, hundreds of 4th and 5th generation aircraft, highly advanced undersea warfare capabilities, all connected on the most advanced battle networks in the world.

The PLAN can't project any significant power outside the first island chain. The PLAN is nowhere near the USNs level.
You maybe correct in what you are saying. But even the US agrees that China is closing the gap and closing fast.
I think in another 10 years - the US Navy will have a viable competitor in the world's Oceans.

The part that China sorely lacks is a global infrastructure and basing capability. That is a much bigger advantage that China does not have a plan to counter, and that is the reason why China will remain secondary to the US Naval capability. Unless and only unless we have a CURRENCY PEARL HARBOR. Then all bets are off.

Furthermore the likelihood of these two adversaries going at each other is remote to none.
This force projection is a means to shape the others actions.
 
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This is the reality of US shipbuilding industry

Who should build Australia’s submarines? The US doesn’t have the workers​

BY DOV S. ZAKHEIM,
- 01/20/23 10:00 AM ET

Sometime in March, the three AUKUS signatories — Australia, the United Kingdom and the United States — are supposed to have reached agreement on, in the White House’s words, “the optimal pathway for an Australian conventionally-armed, nuclear-powered submarine capability.” How that is to be done is a major issue, however. For the United States, in particular, the question of how to provide Australia with such a capability could conflict with its need to provide sufficient submarines to bolster its own deterrent against actual and potential adversaries.

Speaking at a conference in November 2021, Rear Adm. Doug Perry told his audience that “we are currently forecast to sustain a force of 50 SSNs throughout this decade, and that’s almost a 20 percent improvement over previous assessments.” Perhaps his statement was intended to relieve concerns that the submarine force would not decline below 50 boats, and thereby allay concerns about the credibility of a strong American deterrent. It is questionable whether he achieved his objective, however.

The United States currently confronts an adventurist Russia, an aggressive China and a hostile North Korea. Given these multiple threats, it is arguable that the projected submarine force level is still far too low. Indeed, during the height of the Cold War, when China was Washington’s ally, North Korea’s missile program was still nascent, and the Soviet Union was America’s primary — and sole — major adversary, the Navy submarine force level was nearly twice as much as that which Adm. Perry forecast. From 1982 to 1991, the Navy operated over 90 submarines. In 1987, that number reached 98 boats.

Current plans call for the submarine force to reach at least 66 boats by 2051; at the same time, however, senior defense officials worry that China could attack Taiwan at least two decades before that date. Most analysts agree that submarines are among the most powerful deterrents that the United States can wield against Chinese aggression in East Asia. Given the other threats it confronts, however, the United States is not in a position to devote its entire submarine force to deterring China. There is thus a strong case for increasing annual production of Virginia class attack submarines to fulfill these other worldwide missions.

Yet Adm. Perry’s assertion regarding the 50-submarine minimum, and certainly the goal of achieving a 66-submarine force, begs the question of how America’s shipyards could fulfill the Navy’s requirement. To maintain a steady-state force of 50 submarines, the shipyards must produce two boats annually. Currently they produce fewer than 1.5 each year. Moreover, if Congress were to provide funding for the construction of three boats each year, it is not clear where the yards would find the workforce to build them.

There is nothing new about the shortfall in skilled workers required for nuclear-powered submarine construction. Nearly a half-century ago, Adm. Hyman Rickover, father of the nuclear-powered Navy, bemoaned the shortage of skilled fitters and welders for nuclear subs. The situation today is considerably worse, as America is currently in a state of virtual full-employment. Hiring and training new workers is that much more difficult.

It is for that reason that the question of supplying Australia with American submarines has become a major issue on Capitol Hill. Some legislators argue that the United States simply cannot afford to reduce Virginia-class output for its own Navy; others hold a contrary view, though they have been unable to demonstrate from where the needed workers might come.

There may be other ways to implement AUKUS and enable Australia to acquire nuclear attack boats, however. The Australians themselves could be responsible for a considerable portion of what is termed HM&E — the hull, mechanical and electrical elements of the submarine. Australia’s HM&E could include, among other things, the hull itself, navigational systems, pumps, motors, valves, electronics, fire-fighting and damage control and heating, ventilation and air conditioning (HVAC). American experts in nuclear submarine construction and safety could provide support and oversight.

Either the British, or for that matter the French — who were left out of AUKUS but could be brought in — could provide for the nuclear reactor and its components. Either state could sell Australia some weapons systems, as well. Alternatively, Australia could acquire British submarines, or there could be a division of labor between the British and the French. In any event, the United States should take the lead both in providing command, control, communications and combat systems and other specialized capabilities, and in ensuring interoperability with its own submarine force.

While it may be possible to find a solution to the question of the source for Australia’s nuclear attack submarine force, that does not resolve the question of how to find more nuclear skilled shipyard workers for American submarine production. To that end, Congress should consider plans to subsidize training and perhaps provide special bonuses to attract individuals to join the nuclear workforce. Doing so might enable the Navy to ramp up its annual submarine production.

One thing is clear, however: A nuclear-powered attack submarine force half the size of what it was when America faced only one adversary simply will be insufficient to address the multiple, and potentially simultaneous, threats America faces today. Modern submarines may be far more capable than their predecessors, but no ship can be in more than one place at one time. Quantity remains a quality all its own.

 
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You maybe correct in what you are saying. But even the US agrees that China is closing the gap and closing fast.
I think in another 10 years - the US Navy will have a viable competitor in the world's Oceans.

The part that China sorely lacks is a global infrastructure and basing capability. That is a much bigger advantage that China does not have a plan to counter, and that is the reason why China will remain secondary to the US Naval capability. Unless and only unless we have a CURRENCY PEARL HARBOR. Then all bets are off.

Furthermore the likelihood of these two adversaries going at each other is remote to none.
This force projection is a means to shape the others actions.
In fact China has far more overseas ports than you can imagine.
There are more than 100 overseas ports leased and controlled by China, such as Haifa Port and Ashdod Port in Israel, Kumport Port in Turkey, Tinkan Port in Nigeria, Lome Port in Togo, Kyaukpyu Port in Myanmar, Suez Port in Egypt, Lecheng Port in Papua New Guinea, and Balanagua Port in Brazil. The top ten ports in the world, except Singapore Port and Hedland Port, are all controlled by China.
In Africa alone, we lease 45 ports. While most of them are commercial leases, its conversion to a military lease usually requires only a sum of money to the host country.

The biggest gap between the Chinese Navy and the U.S. Navy is that the Chinese Navy lacks a sufficient number of qualified officers and enlisted men.

In 2012, the Chinese Navy had only 970,000 tons. in 2022, the Chinese Navy reached 2.4 million tons. We can't train officers fast enough to keep up with the rate of warships being built.
 
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In fact China has far more overseas ports than you can imagine.
There are more than 100 overseas ports leased and controlled by China, such as Haifa Port and Ashdod Port in Israel, Kumport Port in Turkey, Tinkan Port in Nigeria, Lome Port in Togo, Kyaukpyu Port in Myanmar, Suez Port in Egypt, Lecheng Port in Papua New Guinea, and Balanagua Port in Brazil. The top ten ports in the world, except Singapore Port and Hedland Port, are all controlled by China.
In Africa alone, we lease 45 ports. While most of them are commercial leases, its conversion to a military lease usually requires only a sum of money to the host country.

The biggest gap between the Chinese Navy and the U.S. Navy is that the Chinese Navy lacks a sufficient number of qualified officers and enlisted men.

In 2012, the Chinese Navy had only 970,000 tons. in 2022, the Chinese Navy reached 2.4 million tons. We can't train officers fast enough to keep up with the rate of warships being built.

China Ranks as Top Maritime Nation in the World, Report Says​

Mike Schuler
Total Views: 543
September 7, 2018
 
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View attachment 939841

The 2024 defense budget request is $842B. The IMF projects the US to grow $26.9T this year, but the US is exceeding growth expectations.
I actually have a question.

In the first four months of this year,

U.S. residential electricity consumption was 453.8 billion KWH, down 5% year-over-year.

U.S. commercial electricity use was 422.6 billion KWH, down 1% year over year.

U.S. industrial electricity use was 316.7 billion KWH, down 3% year-over-year.

U.S. govt revenue were down 10% in the first six months.

But the U.S. govt announced GDP growth of 2%.

May I ask how you did it?
 
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I actually have a question.

In the first four months of this year,

U.S. residential electricity consumption was 453.8 billion KWH, down 5% year-over-year.

U.S. commercial electricity use was 422.6 billion KWH, down 1% year over year.

U.S. industrial electricity use was 316.7 billion KWH, down 3% year-over-year.

U.S. govt revenue were down 10% in the first six months.

But the U.S. govt announced GDP growth of 2%.

May I ask how you did it?
Printing money doesn't need much electricity.
 
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View attachment 939841

The 2024 defense budget request is $842B. The IMF projects the US to grow $26.9T this year, but the US is exceeding growth expectations.

1. US air force is running short of cash.
Canceled Bonuses, Delayed Moves: Air Force Cash Problems Trigger Cuts | Military.com

2. US growth is mainly inflation driven numbers, not real growth. Your federal expenses are up by 15%, but receipts down by 9%. Your real GDP growth was only 5.9% and 2.1% past 2 FY's but the nominal GDP increased by 21% in that time.

3. US will be paying more than trillion every year to service the interests from debt. Your interest cost for debt will be more than social security or defence from coming year.
US Government Debt Rises 25% to Reach $652B as Higher Interest Rates Bite - Bloomberg
Endgame: US Federal Debt Interest Payments About To Hit $1 Trillion | ZeroHedge
 
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The US is only low in 155mm relative to its own war plans and requirements. The US still has 3-5M 155mm in stock.

US production capacity will reach 70-80K 155mm per month by early 2025.
 
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