China-India Geopolitics: News & Discussions

[Han Patriot]

Yes, diplomatically you have done well with the US and Pakistan. I am talking about military misadventures.

Yes, SU did not directly intervene. But Vietnam was able to halt the PRC offensive on their own. Or if you like - the PRC stopped on their own and withdrew. Same as they withdrew 'on their own' from Busan/Pusan back to the frontier. Perhaps some superior tactical move the world does not know about?

I would say it was a strategic stalemate, we demonstrated that we can invade Vietnam and prove to the world SU was a paper tiger but otoh we still couldn't prevent Vietnam from withdrawing from Cambodia. This incident seriously dented Soviet prestige, to be fair, Soviet was falling apart anyway.

For Korea, it was not about Chinese troops invading Korea, it was to prevent America from invading Korea, up to Chinese borders. We had no bombers and no nukes, yet we didn't give a fck and continued anyway, the human cost was huge, but strategically it kept America to SK and not proceed further for the last 50 years. You need to understand all military actions are due to strategic reasons. You must comprehend the strategic implications before saying these were 'misadventures'. Chinese don't attack without calculating the odds. Ever since 1949, China had never lost a single war and most achieved their strategic outcome.

 

[Beast]

We already gave our response and we are not retreating.
We are waiting for war from more than a month. Chinese were giving the excuse of malabar exercise, even that is over now.
What more excuses you want, grow some balls this time ?

You will get it soon. Don't be too impatient. Good show worth waiting. End of July will be a good time line for war. It's all up to India The fate lies in your own hand. You want to survive or destroy it. Is always up to India.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

I would say it was a strategic stalemate, we demonstrated that we can invade Vietnam and prove to the world SU was a paper tiger but otoh we still couldn't prevent Vietnam from withdrawing from Cambodia. This incident seriously dented Soviet prestige, to be fair, Soviet was falling apart anyway.

For Korea, it was not about Chinese troops invading Korea, it was to prevent America from invading Korea, up to Chinese borders. We had no bombers and no nukes, yet we didn't give a fck and continued anyway, the human cost was huge, but strategically it kept America to SK and not proceed further for the last 50 years. You need to understand all military actions are due to strategic reasons. You must comprehend the strategic implications before saying these were 'misadventures'. Chinese don't attack without calculating the odds. Ever since 1949, China had never lost a single war and most achieved their strategic outcome.

So even in the best case (for PR China), China will attack India, occupy the areas for sometime, be unable to impose their will on India and then withdraw?

Is that the policy?

 

[Beast]

So even in the best case (for PR China), China will attack India, occupy the areas for sometime, be unable to impose their will on India and then withdraw?

Is that the policy?

China will all out destroy Indian air force and navy in one strike. Then will cut the chicken neck to force India to armistice

The rocket unit of PLA will play a critical role.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

China will all out destroy Indian air force and navy in one strike. Then will cut the chicken neck to force India to armistice

The rocket unit of PLA will play a critical role.

But what will PR China gain by cutting India's neck?

What is the objective?

 

[Eagle_Nest]

They even contemplate asking Pakistan side to solved their kashmir issue once and for all with two way attack.

Let's do it bro !

 

[XDescendantX]

The current anger kicked off in an area close to what India calls the “chicken neck” — a thin stretch of land that is the only direct link to country’s isolated north east.

So if India calls part of it's territory as a "chicken's neck" than obviously India as a whole must be a "giant chicken". LOL

 

[帅的一匹]

So if India calls part of it's territory as a "chicken's neck" than obviously India as a whole must be a "giant chicken". LOL

Should chop the chicken head off in no time

 

[武成王]

But what will PR China gain by cutting India's neck?
What is the objective?

It's not 'PRC will cut the chicken neck', it's 'The neck was not part of the chicken before British came to the subcontinent', AND 'the people in the neck will cut the neck from chicken' AND 'All neighbors esp small neighbors want a chicken without neck, esp BD since it's encircled by the chicken'.

Whether or not the neck stick to the chicken depend on India itself, not PRC. I believe India will eventually screw up itself based on the past historical records.

If PRC intend to cut the chicken neck, new and advanced weapons were already delivered to many militants in NE states decades ago. This is a fact. But we didn't. It's the insecurity buried in Indian's mentality and prevailing jingoism led to current situation, India pushed all small neighbors to PRC.

 

[帅的一匹]

It's not 'PRC will cut the chicken neck', it's 'The neck was not part of the chicken before British came to the subcontinent', AND 'the people in the neck will cut the neck from chicken' AND 'All neighbors esp small neighbors want a chicken without neck, esp BD since it's encircled by the chicken'.

Whether or not the neck stick to the chicken depend on India itself, not PRC. I believe India will eventually screw up itself based on the past historical records.

If PRC intend to cut the chicken neck, new and advanced weapons were already delivered to many militants in NE states decades ago. This is a fact. But we didn't. It's the insecurity buried in Indian's mentality and prevailing jingoism led to current situation, India pushed all small neighbors to PRC.

A regional bully with Aversge IQ below 85 is very much obnoxious.

 

[武成王]

A regional bully with Aversge IQ below 85 is very much obnoxious.

I would not insult Indian with a low IQ, on the contrary, India has lots of smart people, they're just too 'pride of their culture' and arrogance cover their eyes. Indian culture has a big problem, not Indian.

 

[terranMarine]

A lot of chest thumpings and PR China stronk!

Let me sum up what you wrote.

i. DPRK exists - PR China successful. But the objective of the Chinese offensives was to evict the Americans/South Koreans. Farthest you got was Busan.
VERDICT- tactical stalemate, strategic failure.

ii. The US did not 'lose' the Vietnam war - Nope. They lost it. Tactically they were winning when on the ground. But it counts as a decisive strategic defeat - especially when RoV fell.

iii. Vietnam war - PR China wanted Vietnam to adhere to its diktats. Vietnam refused. PR China invaded and got grounded down. Casualties and damage was done to both sides, that alone can't count as a victory/defeat. In the end, PR China did not meet its objectives (of pressuring Vietnam to do PR China's bidding). They don't toe your line to this day.
VERDICT - tactical stalemate, Pyrrhic local tactical victory, operational failure, strategic failure

iv. PRC wanted/WANTS to rule all of the subcontinent of China. But is unable to evict/bring RoC into the fold entirely. Diplomatically PRC has done well in this case. But militarily, PRC has not been successful in finishing the job.
VERDICT: Tactical and operational victory, Partial Strategic victory

v (additional). PR Chinese invasion of India,62
Major success in NEFA, ground to halt in Ladakh near Chusul, heavy losses to both sides, 'voluntary withdrawal'. But India, like Vietnam, refused to cooperate even in future. India pushed to Soviet arms, Indian military buildup. PR China starts 'cultural' revolutions.
VERDICT: Tactical, operational victory. Strategic defeat.

In short, it is clear that the PR Chinese actually only had some measure of long term strategic victory when fighting against fellow Chinese. I admit, you are probably good in Civil war, but against other nations - don't you think that even the recent history shows that you should not try out misadventures? Even against small nations (Bhutan/Nepal/Mongolia/Vietnam/Philippines)?

i. You want to claim you Hindus know more about The Korean War? What you wrote is nothing but garbage, just proofs you are clueless about that war. If China wanted to kick Americans out of SK why did the Chinese troops enter the war when the Yankees and the allies were near China's border? China explicitly warned US not to cross the Yalu River but the Americans didn't listen. By now it's clear America wanted to turn the whole Korea into an American pet as they were advancing all the way right to China's doorstep. China retaliated and drove US and the 16 allied forces all the way back. US objective was a total failure. China achieved strategic victory because we succeeded pushing them back period. China was devastated after WW2, won the civil war against KMT in Mainland thus PRC was born in 1949. China was starting to rebuild the country so how on earth was China planning to wage a war kicking Americans out of SK? China was forced to fight the war at last moment. The US and the allied forces were totally humiliated, why? They had fighter planes, tanks and even MacArthur seriously wanted to drop Atomic bombs on China after witnessing the onslaught Chinese troops delivered.

iv. Not long after the establishment of PRC in 1949 China suddenly was forced to fight The Korean War, so why is it militarily not successful against ROC? When PRC was fighting The Korean War, it was only focused on that war and didn't launch any military operation in Taiwan. So by not even trying to recapture Taiwan PRC failed because we were busy in Korea. Indian logic
Fact: PRC achieved total victory over ROC, Chiang Kai Shek wanted to recapture Mainland but failed. Even after he and his KMT followers fled to Taiwan they kept on planning launching an attack in Mainland, which never came even when PRC was busy during the Korean War, ROC didn't even dare try any military operation. If you still claim PRC failed and didn't finish the job then you are extremely dumb. Had there been no Korean War, it was very likely PRC would have successfully finishing the job.

ii. Without Chinese help Communist Vietnam could not have won period.

iii. Vietnam War? I think you have it mixed up. It's Sino-Vietnamese War, China joined in to help Cambodia.
Vietnam War = US against VN

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino_vietnam_war

If there was no Sino-Soviet split more Chinese troops would have been available in Vietnam, instead 1.5 million were along the Sino-Soviet border.

No matter how one looks at it, Vietnam had bigger losses and the US wrecked VN's economy with sanctions.

Your initial post referring to SK existence, ROC and VN is epic fail trying to proof China had lost a war since 1949.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

i. You want to claim you Hindus know more about The Korean War? What you wrote is nothing but garbage, just proofs you are clueless about that war. If China wanted to kick Americans out of SK why did the Chinese troops enter the war when the Yankees and the allies were near China's border? China explicitly warned US not to cross the Yalu River but the Americans didn't listen. By now it's clear America wanted to turn the whole Korea into an American pet as they were advancing all the way right to China's doorstep. China retaliated and drove US and the 16 allied forces all the way back. US objective was a total failure. China achieved strategic victory because we succeeded pushing them back period. China was devastated after WW2, won the civil war against KMT in Mainland thus PRC was born in 1949. China was starting to rebuild the country so how on earth was China planning to wage a war kicking Americans out of SK? China was forced to fight the war at last moment. The US and the allied forces were totally humiliated, why? They had fighter planes, tanks and even MacArthur seriously wanted to drop Atomic bombs on China after witnessing the onslaught Chinese troops delivered.

iv. Not long after the establishment of PRC in 1949 China suddenly was forced to fight The Korean War, so why is it militarily not successful against ROC? When PRC was fighting The Korean War, it was only focused on that war and didn't launch any military operation in Taiwan. So by not even trying to recapture Taiwan PRC failed because we were busy in Korea. Indian logic
Fact: PRC achieved total victory over ROC, Chiang Kai Shek wanted to recapture Mainland but failed. Even after he and his KMT followers fled to Taiwan they kept on planning launching an attack in Mainland, which never came even when PRC was busy during the Korean War, ROC didn't even dare try any military operation. If you still claim PRC failed and didn't finish the job then you are extremely dumb. Had there been no Korean War, it was very likely PRC would have successfully finishing the job.

ii. Without Chinese help Communist Vietnam could not have won period.

iii. Vietnam War? I think you have it mixed up. It's Sino-Vietnamese War, China joined in to help Cambodia.
Vietnam War = US against VN

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino_vietnam_war

View attachment 412316

If there was no Sino-Soviet split more Chinese troops would have been available in Vietnam, instead 1.5 million were along the Sino-Soviet border.

View attachment 412317

View attachment 412318

No matter how one looks at it, Vietnam had bigger losses and the US wrecked VN's economy with sanctions.

Your initial post referring to SK existence, ROC and VN is epic fail trying to proof China had lost a war since 1949.

Your entire post shows you have no understanding about war. I have never said PR China lost a major war. Read the verdicts I wrote in bold again. I made the text bold for a reason. Get an English speaker if necessary and have it read to you. You said the same things I did. Just with your boasts. All your conclusions are in line with mine.

Most Chinese people I have met are peaceniks. Perhaps this(war business) is not for you. Yours is a civilization of culture, science and peace. Kinda like Italy for instance.

If you want to win a war, why don't you end the Uighur insurgency once and for all? For one that will be a resounding success. And I will also root for you - its Chinese vs Chinese after all. Historically that is a war you have never lost.

If there was no Sino-Soviet split more Chinese troops would have been available in Vietnam, instead 1.5 million were along the Sino-Soviet border.

That is the result of superior PR Chinese diplomatic skills.

If PRC intend to cut the chicken neck, new and advanced weapons were already delivered to many militants in NE states decades ago.

I doubt it. PRC is not IR Pakistan. PRC has no skill in asymmetric warfare in foreign soil. PR China did that in Cambodia (supporting the infamous Khmer Rouge) and other despotic govts and still got occupied by Vietnam!

I think PR China tried hard, but the weapons were all captured along with the agents sent here. I hope you know about the captured Chinese weapons here in the NE. The amounts captured were so huge, ITBP personnel were given some from the captured stocks.
Local Islamic groups operating from BD are more successful than PR Chinese sponsored attempts in this regard.

I would not insult Indian with a low IQ, on the contrary, India has lots of smart people, they're just too 'pride of their culture' and arrogance cover their eyes. Indian culture has a big problem, not Indian.

My personal experience suggests otherwise. I cannot extrapolate to the entire population of PR China. More Chinese are proud in their civilization than Indians in theirs.

Indian culture has a big problem, not Indian.

That is not true either.

Before 1949 countries in China never had issues with Indians. We have had a very peaceful coexistence. Things changed since 49.

 

[Han Patriot]

So even in the best case (for PR China), China will attack India, occupy the areas for sometime, be unable to impose their will on India and then withdraw?

Is that the policy?

For cases where those territory are not Chinese, we would just go in, achieve strategic objective and then withdraw, but if those are Chinese claimed territory, it will be different, if logistics permit, they will maintain their hold like the case of Aksai Chin, SCS islets, etc.

The case for India is totally different, this is a border dispute, the previous two conflicts were not about borders, it was about strategic objectives.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

was about strategic objectives

Ok.

What were these 'strategic objectives'?

we would just go in, achieve strategic objective and then withdraw,

Kinda like military excursions, only with heavy casualties?
If picnic is the motive, why not take them to other places in PR China? Huge subcontinent...