China in doldrums after Xi fiasco: China's finance giant MISSES payments

[ProudThamizhan]

Actually, China "eliminated" poverty by moving the poverty line lower, notice that the Chinese count their poverty line by PPP instead of GNI medium. Long story short, the reported poverty line for China as per Chinese government is at $2.6 a day. While world bank put the number to be $5.5 a day using GNI per capita instead of PPP. Nobody in the world uses PPP per capita to measure poverty, because $1 earn is not $1 in PPP term......

But an argument could be made that people’s quality of like is driven by ppp.

If poverty is a state of inability to afford life’s necessities (say food clothing shelter education transport and healthcare) then the aggregate what these things cost at a reasonable quality I’d say would be a fair poverty line.

In Manhattan making usd 100k with a family of 4 would be poor or close to it while 100k would middle class wages in a lot of towns within the US right ?

Only stupid Indians always slander whatever Chinese do, go drink more disgusting Ganges water to keep your delusions.

Ok but explain why it took you so long to show up ? They’ve demoted you too ?

You Indian media is the world biggest liar, like to know what China really is? lots of Indians are now living or traveling in China, check out their youtube videos to find out what China really is and how they found out media lie about China.

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No need , you and the rest of the CCP cybermice already have given us all a front seat view of how CCP false propaganda and lying happens .we can even predict how often you all get updated notes , what levels they grade you in etc

 

[jhungary]

But an argument could be made that people’s quality of like is driven by ppp.

If poverty is a state of inability to afford life’s necessities (say food clothing shelter education transport and healthcare) then the aggregate what these things cost at a reasonable quality I’d say would be a fair poverty line.

In Manhattan making usd 100k with a family of 4 would be poor or close to it while 100k would middle class wages in a lot of towns within the US right ?

That's depends on what you are using to portray Poverty also, should the line the same across all countries.

There are two ways to calculate poverty, absolute poverty and relative poverty.

Absolute poverty is basically the rate you can survive with basic need, like 3 square meal a day and a roof over your head and etc. This is an absolute value, which mean if you are below, you are literally going to die unless someone help you up that level, that line in World Bank term is 1.9 USD a day for low income 3.2 per day for middle low-income country, 5.5 per day for middle income country, it's more a reference than an actual line.

This applies to the entire world so you have a more comparable figure between country, and you can also have a snap shot of how the world doing. Say if we look at low-income countries poverty rate, we can see the world have improved dramatically because 100 years ago, 60% of the world population is under $1.9 a day poverty line. the figure is 10% in 2015.

Relative poverty is basically a line drawn by the percentage of the population in a given country, it's more a median and SD stuff, say the 50% mark would be the median, and 75% mark would have been the Standard deviation for all the citizen that lived above the mean, then whoever lived in that country at the bottom 25% would be in poverty. (I made up the percentage to illustrate the point just so you know)

The problem with your question is, that is not poverty, that's simply you can't afford the living standard of a high standard city, the solution is not put you out of the poverty line or subsidise your living, but you need to move to another part of the state or city that you can afford.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Pretty fair points in the post. The 双减 policy, cracking down on foreigners working status and tutorings badly hurt my business and we still struggle to recover.

Yeah, i do know some suppliers my company work with who had similar issues as they had businesses in China but had to move away from China after Xi Jinping constant lockdowns/disruptions since it didnt make economic sense to be sourcing from an unreliable place anymore(many still havent returned to this day). Especially after the whole world had long opened up and went back to business as usual.

To be honest, given some of Xi's blunders i am surprise how he managed to not only revise the Chinese constitution so he could remain in power but even allowed to stay for a 3rd term (and probably more going forward) and places all his loyal subjects at the top of the politbureau. I am afraid this can be good but also bad, as we saw with zéro covid policy where they are not many people who can provide counter points or call out government in case they think a policy is wrong. Having only YES men has its disadvantages as well.
I will say he now has the party under him to be honest..

 

[indushek]

Actually, not just that, the debt problem and the traditional saving habit also put stress on Chinese economy. That's the direct contribution to the Chinese National debt to GDP ratio.

I can write a whole paragraph on how or what causes that, but in a TL;DR version, China borrowed too much money during the industrialisation and instead of putting those investment in a money generating scheme (ie fintech or banking industry, and I know It sounded like its a scam), China put the investment in the lowest return investment as possible. Which is they started using those loan to build infrastructure, so roads, airport, properties and etc.

The problem is, this is a sinkhole for cash and the longer it gets into deeper debt because infrastructure are not liquid asset. You cannot turn an airport into cash overnight. And now that price now is in a breaking point, and China does not have a good lending/banking system to back that up (Bear in mind China international credit rating is only A-, compared to US AA+ which literally have more debt and more Debt to GDP ratio) and AAA+ to most European countries.

That is the gist of the problem.

The stimulus package post Global Financial crisis announced by Chinese Govt, has a lot to do with this doesn't it? Not to mention the lopsided Federal policy, where local governments have to make their own money.

I was just listening to a economist's podcast yesterday, he explained the chronology so well. All those ghost cities and international airports in smaller cities, massive infra by local governments now makes more sense.

No wonder they had to go out and do a BRI, once the local building got too much. The guy on the podcast says its the banks themselves who have opened these lending institutes or shadow banks, to look like they are different who then took on the NPA's of local governments. Not sure how far this is true but, even if they aren't one asset is being sold to multiple entities lol. Or money is lent to make an asset which has no use.

The low spending you mention, is influenced by the Hukou system the man said along with other factors of course. Lol its not just one factor ultimately, there are so many issues which has lead to this. Damn

 

[mike2000 is back]

fuvking Xi jinping!!!
fuvking Peng liyuan!!!
fuvking xi mingze!!!

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But. But. Xi gives 29000 yuan per month to each black man international student.

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fuvking Xi Blackping!

LMAO, So you mean Xi Jinping is giving such grants only to foreign black students not other foreign students as well? Lol

Plus, please i hope you dont live in China? Else be careful about making fun of and calling your president names online. You don't want to get in trouble dude..not worth it..

 

[mike2000 is back]

Xi's rule, a miracle in the human history,

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Lol You really believe there is no poor in China? Really? Lol

So China is already a developed country then.

 

[ProudThamizhan]

That's depends on what you are using to portray Poverty also, should the line the same across all countries.

There are two ways to calculate poverty, absolute poverty and relative poverty.

Absolute poverty is basically the rate you can survive with basic need, like 3 square meal a day and a root over your head and etc. This is an absolute value, which mean if you are below, you are literally going to die unless someone help you up that level, that line in World Bank term is 1.9 USD a day for low income 3.2 per day for middle low-income country, 5.5 per day for middle income country, it's more a reference than an actual line.

This applies to the entire world so you have a more comparable figure between country, and you can also have a snap shot of how the world doing. Say if we look at low-income countries poverty rate, we can see the world have improved dramatically because 100 years ago, 60% of the world population is under $1.9 a day poverty line. the figure is 10% in 2015.

Relative poverty is basically a line drawn by the percentage of the population in a given country, it's more a median and SD stuff, say the 50% mark would be the median, and 75% mark would have been the Standard deviation, then whoever lived in that country at the bottom 25% would be in poverty. (I made up the percentage to illustrate the point just so you know)

The problem with your question is, that is not poverty, that's simply you can't afford the living standard of a high standard city, the solution is not put you out of the poverty line or subsidise your living, but you need to move to another part of the state or city that you can afford.

Relative measure for goal setting and absolute for aid purpose will make sense . We can use whichever works for bragging rights

 

[mike2000 is back]

He never claimed that only black people get preferential treatment.

What he means is that foreigners are treated like kings in china, and black people are kings of kings.

And Xi is the source of all injustice.

So seems there is some sort of backlash against Xi for promoting foreign students studying in Chinese schools/unoversities?

Moroever, i have been to China 2 times for visit/holidays. I don't think i ever noticed people treating the few black people i saw there like Kings of Kings AT ALL. lool So not sure about that.

 

[Cheepek]

what will china do with 1000s of empty skyscrapers especially with declining population. Only time will tell.

They will demolish them and build over them again

 

[jhungary]

The stimulus package post Global Financial crisis announced by Chinese Govt, has a lot to do with this doesn't it? Not to mention the lopsided Federal policy, where local governments have to make their own money.

I was just listening to a economist's podcast yesterday, he explained the chronology so well. All those ghost cities and international airports in smaller cities, massive infra by local governments now makes more sense.

No wonder they had to go out and do a BRI, once the local building got too much. The guy on the podcast says its the banks themselves who have opened these lending institutes or shadow banks, to look like they are different who then took on the NPA's of local governments. Not sure how far this is true but, even if they aren't one asset is being sold to multiple entities lol. Or money is lent to make an asset which has no use.

The low spending you mention, is influenced by the Hukou system the man said along with other factors of course. Lol its not just one factor ultimately, there are so many issues which has lead to this. Damn

Many economist I followed had actually pointed out how the economy in China now compare to the time the subprime mortgage hit US economy in 2008. There are quite a lot of similarity between the 2, both countries are at high debt cycle, both countries had experience properties boom, and both countries refused to spend money other than infrastructure project.

I think the the entire borrowing habit for China is to blame, the stimulus package post financial crisis and post COVID is just a tip of the iceberg. The problem lay into the entire banking sector was ladened with properties loan, mortgage and so on, they weren't at all effectively clearing other loan that would otherwise stimulate business activities in other sector, and that is the issue here.

A lot of people blame many different things, I tend to blame the Chinese dream of being the leading manufacturer hub in the world spell their demise in financial sector, they have simply overdone that and the big honcho simply wouldn't listen, Jack Ma already had warned that Chinese banking and financial system of it's "Pawnshop" mentality which peg money into actual goods as this is what most manufacture based economy operate on. The problem is, you can only deal with building and building for a while until either the land is too expensive to build on or they simply run out of option, what jack Ma said is China should invest in innovation because innovation is free (I mean not monetary) and you have nothing attach to it, which mean you can expand without costing you anything. Instead of listening to what Jack Ma said, they disappeared him....

 

[ProudThamizhan]

LMAO, So you mean Xi Jinping is giving such grants only to foreign black students not other foreign students as well? Lol

Plus, please i hope you dont live in China? Else be careful about making fun of and calling your president names online. You don't want to get in trouble dude..not worth it..

Don’t worry our @GreatHanWarrior plays GleatHanWalliol only when safe

 

[jhungary]

Relative measure for goal setting and absolute for aid purpose will make sense . We can use whichever works for bragging rights

Well, it is and it isn't, well, this is a very complicated issue, not intent to explain a lot on the concept so I am just going to leave it at that

 

[mike2000 is back]

that makes sense but the usual chinese cybermice haven't shown up to say that yet. perhaps awaiting instructions . or they're busy checking if they

rest of the world works at removing poverty.
CCP reduces poverty by killing of the poor - the charts look even better that way

Lets be a little fair here. The Chinese have done well this past decades and have improved their peoples living standards alot..However, they are just following their East Asian peers trajectory and trying to catchup. So it would have been an exception if all East Asian countries are wealthy, industrialised and developed meanwhile China is still poor and a peasant country. So it was a exception then not the norm, reason i believe China would have still develop with or without CCP ruling the country. If all Chinas East asian/sinosphere peers were poor and backward then i would have said yes CCP did something extraordinary, but its not the case. They were actually quite late to the party. Lol

Moreover, India is still far behind China in development, living standards etc to be honest..i have been to both countries so canvattest to that. So not sure about your point about laughing at their poverty rate.

 

[mike2000 is back]

If Xi were a racist like Hitler, I would definitely become Xi's fanboy, worshiping Xi for life.

Unfortunately.

That never happened.

Xi loves minorities, loves South Asians, loves blacks, but he doesn't love the main ethnic group.

Hmmm...im not sure about that. I have never heard a Chinese person mentioning that.

 

[K_Bin_W]

Okay, China is in shamble and will disintegrate. Why are Indians and Americans still afraid of China? Just an interesting thought.

Because they know...