China imports losing ground in India

[shuntmaster]

SEPCO is a construction contractor. Reliance bought the components from a Chinese company (Shanghai Electric) and is building the plants with someone else. That's very different. You are talking about the quality of SEPCO's service and not the generator itself.

SEPCO is a EPC (Engineering-Procurement-Construction) for power plants. They buy some of the major equipments from other manufacturers like Shanghai Electric and manufacture some of the major components for the power plants themselves. The Generator/Alternator is just a small part comprising of a power plant.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Sir, i slightly disagree with the cheapness issue. BHEL had cheaper rates than Dongfang in our next generating venture. I also regret buying an "extremly expensive" unit with no productivity.

I'm looking at Dongfeng Electric. They do not even sell coal pulverizors.

DEC


Power Generation Boiler & Auxiliaries
Steam Turbine-Generator & Auxiliaries
Gas Turbine & Combine Cycle Plant
Hydro Turbine-Generator & Auxiliaries
Pump Storage Power Stations
Wind Turbine-Genearator & Plants
Geothermal Power Plants and Biomass Power Plants
Nuclear Power Equipment
Industrial Exhause Heat Recovery Systems & Plants
Solar Energy Equipment
Diesel Engines for Land & Marine Use, Diesel Power Plants
Gas Engine Plants
Power Generating Plants for Offshore Oil Drilling Platform
Substation & Transmission Transformers, Disconnectors,Circuit Breakers,Shunt Reators,etc.
High-voltage Cables,Conductors,Insulators,Steel Towers,etc.
GIS Stations
Monitoring , Control & Protection Systems
Railways & Transportation Locomotives,Coaches, Freight Wagons,EMU/DMU
Metro Cars, Light Rail Vehicles
Electrification, Signaling & Telecommunication Systems & Equipment
Steel Rails & Fittings, Various Components & Spare Parts, etc.
Port Equipment & Machinery
Marine Ships & Main Accessories
Trucks, Road Rollers, Excavators, Railway Rescue Cranes, etc.

Eviromental Protection Sewerage Water Treatment Plants
Well-drilling and Pump Stations & Water Supply Plants
Flue Gas Desulfurization and Denitrification Plants
Desalination Plants
Heavy-duty Machinery Machine Tool
Metallurgical Equipment & Plant
Cement Equipment & Plant
Mining Equipment

General Electric & Machinery Large-capacity AC&DC Motors
High-voltage Capacity Converters
Large-capacity Chemical Plant Vessels & Pressure Vessels
Suger Mill Plants
Steel Products ( Pipes, Tanks, Hydraulic Gates,etc.)
Steel Structure & Storage System
Fabricated or Fine-machining Steel Products & Components

 

[shuntmaster]

I'm looking at Dongfeng Electric. They do not even sell coal pulverizors.

DEC


Power Generation Boiler & Auxiliaries
Steam Turbine-Generator & Auxiliaries
Gas Turbine & Combine Cycle Plant
Hydro Turbine-Generator & Auxiliaries
Pump Storage Power Stations
Wind Turbine-Genearator & Plants
Geothermal Power Plants and Biomass Power Plants
Nuclear Power Equipment
Industrial Exhause Heat Recovery Systems & Plants
Solar Energy Equipment
Diesel Engines for Land & Marine Use, Diesel Power Plants
Gas Engine Plants
Power Generating Plants for Offshore Oil Drilling Platform
Substation & Transmission Transformers, Disconnectors,Circuit Breakers,Shunt Reators,etc.
High-voltage Cables,Conductors,Insulators,Steel Towers,etc.
GIS Stations
Monitoring , Control & Protection Systems
Railways & Transportation Locomotives,Coaches, Freight Wagons,EMU/DMU
Metro Cars, Light Rail Vehicles
Electrification, Signaling & Telecommunication Systems & Equipment
Steel Rails & Fittings, Various Components & Spare Parts, etc.
Port Equipment & Machinery
Marine Ships & Main Accessories
Trucks, Road Rollers, Excavators, Railway Rescue Cranes, etc.

Eviromental Protection Sewerage Water Treatment Plants
Well-drilling and Pump Stations & Water Supply Plants
Flue Gas Desulfurization and Denitrification Plants
Desalination Plants
Heavy-duty Machinery Machine Tool
Metallurgical Equipment & Plant
Cement Equipment & Plant
Mining Equipment

General Electric & Machinery Large-capacity AC&DC Motors
High-voltage Capacity Converters
Large-capacity Chemical Plant Vessels & Pressure Vessels
Suger Mill Plants
Steel Products ( Pipes, Tanks, Hydraulic Gates,etc.)
Steel Structure & Storage System
Fabricated or Fine-machining Steel Products & Components

A coal pulveriser is a equipment/component in the power generation boiler and auxiliaries system...

 

[scorpionx]

The complete package was awarded to Dongfang and they subcontructed it to other chinese vendors. the turbine is made of Dongfang turbines ltd. the manufacturer of boiler is Dongfang boilers ltd. and pulverizer is heart of that boiler.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Sir, your language is far more different than my chinese friends whom i had an opportunity to work with. most those engineers were very polite and gentle unlike some of our chinese memebers here in pdf. what i posted was based on ground reality.
http://www.livemint.com/2009/03/.../Dongfang-turbine-fails-trial-r.html

I actually searched for "Dongfang Turbine Fails Trial" on google and there's only that one result. If Dongfang really failed, you think there'd be only one website reporting on it? The Western media would be all over it.

We're friendly to you, if you're friendly to us. You are not friendly to us here, so we are not friendly to you here.

 

[shuttler]

The complete package was awarded to Dongfang and they subcontructed it to other chinese vendors.

why should Dongfang sub contract it if it has full capabilities to manufacture the order?

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

A coal pulveriser is a equipment/component in the power generation boiler and auxiliaries system...

Is that what its considered to be now?

Would you like to read a scientific report on this?

http://www.cea.nic.in/reports/chinese_boiler_report.pdf

Page 13:

The margins provided in the Chinese equipments are observed to be in the range 20-25% on flow and 30-44% on head. These are in line with normal good engineering practice.

The whole report, btw, is very interesting.

 

[shuntmaster]

why should Dongfang sub contract it if it has full capabilities to manufacture the order?

No one company can manufacture all the components/systems in a power plant.. or for any other industry plant for that matter. Thats where the EPCs/main contractors/system integrators come in. Most likely DEC is a EPC contractor, who buys products from other OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturer) like Shanghai Electric and packages them into a deliverable plant/project.

 

[Roybot]

Another Dung Fang turbine failure,

mJunction: Coal - Concern over Chinese power equipment

There are some instances where the power plants have got into serious trouble by using the Chinese equipment. One of the major cases is the failure of 300 MW Sagardighi project of West Bengal Power Development Corporation Limited due to one of the turbines supplied by Dongfang Electric Corporation.

 

[kawaraj]

I work in this field too and know this first hand. Chinese power plants are known to be cheap & quick delivery but of unreliable quality. Most of the IPPs who buy them are in for short term and want quick return on their investment and sourcing from China meets their purpose. Now the operators have realised that buying chinese stuff is not going to work-out even on short terms.

As a business knowhow, I already said extensively that there is still a technology gap between Chinese power gen equipment(tranditianal coal/oil) and Indianan ones. If you insist saying in this manner, i have to say the Chinese might just dump their 1990 tech to you to suit the ineffient operation of your power plant. Note there's the best match/application theory in the business.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Another Dung Fang turbine failure,

mJunction: Coal - Concern over Chinese power equipment

Those are considered part of routine failures within the boundary of acceptability, as the report said.

In addition, all turbines by all companies fail.

Siemens Natural Gas Turbine Failure Settlement

 

[scorpionx]

For example. Primary air fan which moves the pulverised coal upto the boiler combustion zone the 2MW motor is made by Shenyang Machine company Ltd.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

No one company can manufacture all the components/systems in a power plant.. or for any other industry plant for that matter. Thats where the EPCs/main contractors/system integrators come in. Most likely DEC is a EPC contractor, who buys products from other OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturer) like Shanghai Electric and packages them into a deliverable plant/project.

DEC is most an OEM. Their main business other than power generation is CNC machine tools. They also supplied the turbines used in China's nuclear plants which so far have had zero safety incidents. You'd think that if their quality was very low, that our nuclear plants would be melting down every day.

 

[scorpionx]

Sir, we have a record of continuous 453days running of a 250MW Fuji unit. So inefficient operation thing is the last one i can digest.it will be helpful if you provide any link to support the inefficiency of indian engineers here.

 

[Roybot]

Dongfang is loosing market all over the world.

Analyst IHS Emerging Energy Research (IHS EER) claims that the Chinese manufacturer lost 1.52GW of sales last year, compared with 2010, and slid from seventh to 12th in the global rankings as it lost 3.9% of the market.

Dongfang slides down global rankings as sales slump - Wind - Renewable energy news - Recharge - wind, solar, biomass, wave/tidal/hydro and geothermal