China imports losing ground in India

[danger007]

^^^yup you are right, and spartly islands belongs to Vietnam....

 

[danger007]

^^^yup you are right, and spartly islands belongs to Vietnam....

 

[holysaturn]

India is still dependent on China for its industrial goods. That's why Reliance spent 8 billion dollars, one of the highest lump sums in the world, on boilers and gas turbines from Shanghai Electric.

ya but they still lack quality

Chinese power equipment inferior than BHEL: Praful Patel Infrawindow News Bureau|New Delhi|May. 08, 2012, 10:33 AM
Praful Patel, minister for heavy industries & public enterprises, informed the Lok Sabha that power plants set up with Chinese equipment have not shown better performance than those using equipments supplied by Bharat Heavy Electricals Limited during the last three years.


In fact, he added that Chinese supplied equipment has inferior heat rates (efficiencies) and the auxiliaries consume more power than that of BHEL. Secondary fuel oil consumption is also more. Average Plant Load Factor for the period 2008-09 to 2010-11 of Chinese make units is as low as 68% as compared to BHEL’s 79%.

Operational availability of Chinese make units has also been low as compared to BHEL make units. A study has been undertaken by Central Electrical Authority to ‘Analyze the performance of Chinese Equipment vis a vis Indian equipment by a committee constituted by CEA.
Chinese power equipment inferior than BHEL: Praful Patel
The Energy Business – India Energy News, Nuclear Energy News, Renewable Energy News, Oil & Gas Sector News, Power Sector News » BHEL power equipment outguns Chinese rivals: reports

 

[BJP*]

Chinese members should remember, India is not dependent on China like west.
In fact Chinese members should be happy that a fellow Asian nation is becoming self dependent.

 

[below_freezing]

ya but they still lack quality

Chinese power equipment inferior than BHEL: Praful Patel Infrawindow News Bureau|New Delhi|May. 08, 2012, 10:33 AM
Praful Patel, minister for heavy industries & public enterprises, informed the Lok Sabha that power plants set up with Chinese equipment have not shown better performance than those using equipments supplied by Bharat Heavy Electricals Limited during the last three years.


In fact, he added that Chinese supplied equipment has inferior heat rates (efficiencies) and the auxiliaries consume more power than that of BHEL. Secondary fuel oil consumption is also more. Average Plant Load Factor for the period 2008-09 to 2010-11 of Chinese make units is as low as 68% as compared to BHEL’s 79%.

Operational availability of Chinese make units has also been low as compared to BHEL make units. A study has been undertaken by Central Electrical Authority to ‘Analyze the performance of Chinese Equipment vis a vis Indian equipment by a committee constituted by CEA.
Chinese power equipment inferior than BHEL: Praful Patel
The Energy Business – India Energy News, Nuclear Energy News, Renewable Energy News, Oil & Gas Sector News, Power Sector News » BHEL power equipment outguns Chinese rivals: reports

When managed correctly, the Average Plant Load Factor is over 90%. I understand that as minister for a state owned company, he has to support BHEL, but he's just flat out lying at this point. Reliance who owns the plants contradicts him.

Business Line : Companies News : RPower may commission phase II of Rosa plant 3 months ahead of schedule

Rpower sources said contrary to aspersions cast on the efficacy of Chinese equipment, the Shanghai Electric machinery at the plant has been able to maintain an average plant load factor of over 90 per cent since January.

 

[Abhishek_]

When managed correctly, the Average Plant Load Factor is over 90%. I understand that as minister for a state owned company, he has to support BHEL, but he's just flat out lying at this point. Reliance who owns the plants contradicts him.

Business Line : Companies News : RPower may commission phase II of Rosa plant 3 months ahead of schedule

Rpower sources said contrary to aspersions cast on the efficacy of Chinese equipment, the Shanghai Electric machinery at the plant has been able to maintain an average plant load factor of over 90 per cent since January.

bottomline remains, your assertion that india is in anyway dependent on chinese power equipment is gross-exaggeration. chinese companies supply less than 30% equipment with falling market share.

 

[below_freezing]

bottomline remains, your assertion that india is in anyway dependent on chinese power equipment is gross-exaggeration. chinese companies supply less than 30% equipment with falling market share.

The Chinese are running away with transformer orders - Money - DNA

Almost 46% of 765 kV transformer orders from PGCIL have been bagged by the Chinese equipment manufacturers, with most of the orders being won in February-March, 2012. The Chinese have been able to gain market share in the 765 kV space at the expense of the Koreans (3% in FY12 versus 30% share in FY11) and Crompton Greaves,” they said in a report dated April 9.

In fact, TBEA Shenyang, which captured 27% of the 765 kV orders last fiscal, had not won a single order the previous fiscal.
Not surprisingly, the market share of Crompton was down to 12% from 29%, that of ABB to 3% from 11% and of Hyundai E&C to 2% from 12%, Sharma and Thoombath noted.

India power gear makers bank on duties to fend off China rivals | Reuters

State-backed Bharat Heavy Electricals Ltd, the top local maker of boilers, turbines and generators, saw its market share shrink to 40 percent of advance orders booked thus far for the government five-year planning period ending 2017, from 55 percent in the previous five-year period, brokerage CLSA said in a report. The Chinese share grew to 43 percent from 31 percent, it said.

 

[Abhishek_]

The Chinese are running away with transformer orders - Money - DNA

India power gear makers bank on duties to fend off China rivals | Reuters

State-backed Bharat Heavy Electricals Ltd, the top local maker of boilers, turbines and generators, saw its market share shrink to 40 percent of advance orders booked thus far for the government five-year planning period ending 2017, from 55 percent in the previous five-year period, brokerage CLSA said in a report. The Chinese share grew to 43 percent from 31 percent, it said.

not sure if you didnt read correctly or deliberately ignored the fact that the report is talking about one type transformer (power equipment market is far bigger). please be aware that laws are coming into effect requiring equipment to be manufactured locally in order to be considered (also mentioned in the article). I will be glad if chinese companies setup manufacturing here bring jobs to locals.

further info: around 20% duty is planned to be levied as counter-vailing duty that can potentially dry up 90% of the imports, unless of course chinese companies setup shop here (which they are welcome to)

 

[below_freezing]

not sure if you didnt read correctly or deliberately ignored the fact that the report is talking about one type transformer (power equipment market is far bigger). please be aware that laws are coming into effect requiring equipment to be manufactured locally in order to be considered (also mentioned in the article). I will be glad if chinese companies setup manufacturing here bring jobs to locals.

further info: around 20% duty is planned to be levied as counter-vailing duty that can potentially dry up 90% of the imports, unless of course chinese companies setup shop here (which they are welcome to)

\

the 1st article was a specific example of something 90% dominated by Chinese.

the 2nd was in general, China's market share expanded to 43% and beat BHEL.

 

[Abhishek_]

\

the 1st article was a specific example of something 90% dominated by Chinese.

the 2nd was in general, China's market share expanded to 43% and beat BHEL.

correct, the 1st article talks about a single type of transformer, minor for the overall share.
second article talks about future orders, which will be affected by the counter-vailing duty scheduled to be imposed in coming months.

bottom-line remains, India is not dependent on chinese equipment. dependent would imply the lack of alternatives.
fact: we have enough domestic suppliers for the needs, and govt is amending laws to level the playing field. as i mentioned before, i would be glad if chinese companies setup shop here to provide local jobs.

 

[below_freezing]

correct, the 1st article talks about a single type of transformer, minor for the overall share.
second article talks about future orders, which will be affected by the counter-vailing duty scheduled to be imposed in coming months.

bottom-line remains, India is not dependent on chinese equipment. dependent would imply the lack of alternatives.
fact: we have enough domestic suppliers for the needs, and govt is amending laws to level the playing field. as i mentioned before, i would be glad if chinese companies setup shop here to provide local jobs.

That's already happening. However, all the profits will flow to foreign countries. When GE sets up a plant in India, for example, they're going to be using Indian priced labor to sell turbines at European prices.

 

[kawaraj]

It's generally known that electric engineering tech in India is still miles away from that of China. I am very close to this business field.

The leading tech for traditionals is still held by the US firms, i.e. General electric, which acquired its Italian branch for the best tech in gas turbine tech, well, it's German branch was also acquired with then best tech in wind gears. But they are losing ground to Chinese firms in the recent competition slowly. European firm Alstom and Siemens are both strong player but face the same problem, So are MHI, Toshiba and Hitachi in Japan. Economic stagnation has dwindle the ambition of Japanese firms at home and abroad.

Market of traditional power gen equipment are in the developing world. Chinese contractors have been the major force of this construction market, thus bring out their equipment, and upgrade their tech very fast since 1990s. Application boost technology, you have to admit it.

I know BHEL is also an important player especially in India, but in terms of powergen tech, still some distance to catch up.

What's happening in new energy electric equipments is a difference story. Chinese firms are forefronts today, beating the once front-runners in Spain(wind) and Germany. It's said by the year end Chinese market share globally will rise to 60 percent in solar and 50 percent in wind turbine. Yeah against a big pie of the market is China itself. India is also catching up fast.

It's amazing no one even talked about Solar and Wind can even be applicable in economic sense. But the "Cheap Chinese Product" theory beat all of those pessimists, this is admirable in the new energy development considering western leading firms themselves once were the major obstacles for the boom, and now they have to bear the tragic end for losing out to China, and maybe very likely, India.

this is something, not in the textbook, but all developing nations should take notes, there are always shortcuts to take to gain your ground in the world.

 

[harpoon]

That's already happening. However, all the profits will flow to foreign countries. When GE sets up a plant in India, for example, they're going to be using Indian priced labor to sell turbines at European prices.

Bottomline is Indians getting the job. If Indian priced labor remains competitive and skilled, the plants including that of Chinese will increase production and capacity which will end up in more Indians getting jobs which is good for the nation.

I am okay with 'Chini Maal' as long as its (or a majority of it) made in India using Indian labour.

 

[Abhishek_]

That's already happening. However, all the profits will flow to foreign countries. When GE sets up a plant in India, for example, they're going to be using Indian priced labor to sell turbines at European prices.

incorrect, locally manufactured products are cheaper in most cases (due to various taxes and locally sourced raw materials)

 

[Dharmachakra]

India is still dependent on China for its industrial goods. That's why Reliance spent 8 billion dollars, one of the highest lump sums in the world, on boilers and gas turbines from Shanghai Electric.

Do you seriously having a reading comprehension problem?

In the first post of the thread itself it says, Anil ambani owned reliance ordered from china( not becos of quality of machinery) but becos of availability of cheap loans that he cant get elsewhere in the world.

If chinese loans are on par with other countries, then no on will buy sub-standard equipment from you. Your manufacturers are compensating the sub-standard quality with cheap loans and mass delivery.

As a matter of fact, many indian power producers that ordered chinese power equipment are now crying everytime the machine breaks down.Soon this Anil ambani will realise what a waste of money he did.

ITs like smart investors when you compare the two brothers Anil and Mukesh. Mukesh ordered most of his refinery equipment from Indian manufacturers and they hardly break and he and his company reaping the benifits, while Anil known for him arrogance and foolishness suffering big time

The only edge that Chinese had over Indian manufacturers is offering equipment on loans(and that too cheap loans) and mass delivery( because of a head-start in the production systems).