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HONG KONG (AP) - The students whose calls for democratic reforms sparked the most dramatic challenge to authorities since Hong Kong returned to Chinese control are vowing to keep up the fight.

But as the numbers of protesters dwindled Monday from tens of thousands into the hundreds, it was unclear where the tumult of the past week would lead.

Schools reopened and civil servants returned to work after protesters cleared the area outside the city government headquarters, a focal point of the demonstrations that began Sept. 26. Crowds also thinned markedly at the two other protest sites, and traffic flowed again through many roads that had been blocked.

In the Mong Kok district, the site of weekend clashes in which mobs tried to drive the demonstrators out of the intersection they were blocking, hundreds of curious onlookers surrounded the remaining protesters Monday evening, taking pictures.

"The threats in Mong Kok have passed, and now people are just curious about the sit-in," said 36-year-old Anita Lee, a resident. "That's why there are more onlookers than protesters."

Many in Hong Kong are wondering if the protest movement may have run its course and whether the students have a clear strategy for pressing their demand that all candidates for the city's top leader, or chief executive, not be screened by a pro-Beijing committee.

"They can't sustain attendance in protests if it goes on and on," said Michael Davis, a professor at Hong Kong University. "They need some strategy where they can withdraw the crowds so they can say to the government that if they are not sincere, they will mobilize crowds back on the streets."

Disagreements were evident after the students and the government began preliminary talks.

Lau Kong-wah, the undersecretary of constitutional affairs, said late Monday that the government and students had agreed on terms for the talks, including that the two sides would be on an equal footing.

Lester Shum, a leader of the Hong Kong Federation of Students, confirmed the agreement, but said they had not discussed or reached a consensus on the agenda.

Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying, who has rejected the protesters' calls for him to resign, said in a TV address Monday that the government would seek "a sincere dialogue on political reform."

At the same time, Leung reiterated that everyone should go home and stop blocking the streets.

"There are lots of teenagers and students with passion who love Hong Kong in various assemblies. However, some of them are aggressive and use violence. No matter what your attitude is toward Occupy Central, the police will firmly take enforcement action to those who use violence," he said.

The students say they would walk away from the talks if police, who fired tear gas and pepper spray on unarmed protesters Sept. 28, use force to clear away the remaining demonstrators. The police violence and attacks by mobs drew huge crowds in a massive show of support.

"It's up to the government now. This is the first step, but the pressure has to continue," said Alex Chow, one of the student leaders.

The leeway for negotiations appears limited since Leung and Chinese officials have said Beijing will stick to its decision to screen all candidates for top leader, which many in Hong Kong say amounts to reneging on its promise of universal suffrage.

One option would be to convince the government that having open nominations for chief executive is not as big a threat as the potential for further protests.

In that sense, "I think they can already declare victory in this round 1 of their movement," Davis said. "There's a contest for the hearts and minds of Hong Kong people going on, and protesters have clearly won round 1. They have the public support and sympathy."

While they might be weak in coordination and strategy, the protesters' youthfulness and the movement's lack of central leadership have added to their appeal. Lawmakers and pro-democracy politicians have played almost no role in the movement, which began as Occupy Central - a campaign founded last year by law professor Benny Tai. But Tai and other Occupy leaders have let several student and grass-roots political groups lead the protests.

One faction, Scholarism, is led by 17-year-old Joshua Wong and draws many younger students, while the Federation of Students represents mostly university students. Still other protesters say they follow no particular group or leader.

Differences and confusion within the movement became clear Sunday, when several leaders announced a retreat from key sites, while others declared there was no withdrawal or urged protesters to regroup in one main area.

Still, the protesters share a common agenda.

"There is still a remarkably consistent demand for genuine democracy," said Alvin Y.H. Cheung, a visiting scholar at the U.S.-Asia Law Institute. "There is a striking unity of purpose."

The young activists also have shown an impressive knack for coordination and planning. Although the sit-ins formed spontaneously, they were disciplined and doggedly nonviolent. The youths camped out in the middle of city streets, organized ample supply lines and kept the "occupation" areas as litter-free and orderly as possible.

By Monday, many of the remaining protesters in Hong Kong's Admiralty district and across Victoria Harbor in Mong Kok were undeterred by their dwindling numbers but admitted they could not afford to neglect work and school much longer.

But 18-year-old Louis Chan said he was not sure achieving free elections - the students' original goal - is likely.

"I did think it was possible, but now I don't think so because they (the Hong Kong government) didn't give any response and China is also very much against this," he said.


Hong Kong protesters, government officials agree to ‘several rounds’ of talks | FOX6Now.com

Hong Kong protests fade; students vow to carry on - FOX 13 News
 
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more northern chinese should migrate to the south while the southern chinese should migrate to the west, thus a proper demographic plan should be implemented. southern chinese borders are unsafe and if northern chinese migrate there, it will be secured

i can even distinguish chinese members here and say who is from north and who is from south by reading their posts because bravery is reflected in their respective posts

i think, cirr is a northern chinese

Can you make a list of guess about the Chinese members on PDF?
 
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more northern chinese should migrate to the south while the southern chinese should migrate to the west, thus a proper demographic plan should be implemented. southern chinese borders are unsafe and if northern chinese migrate there, it will be secured

i can even distinguish chinese members here and say who is from north and who is from south by reading their posts because bravery is reflected in their respective posts

i think, cirr is a northern chinese

Cirr is from Jiangxi. Where would you think I'm from? I'm the most fair and unbiased - the only time I've ever insulted anyone was when I told an Indian bigot to check himself before he wrecks himself.
 
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My grandmother (奶奶) came from 泰州, the hometown of Hu Jintao.

She is 170cm tall and looks close to North Chinese, but culturally she is South Chinese, and she ate 馄饨, not 饺子.

The speakers of 江淮官话 often face a confusion about their identity of being North Chinese or South Chinese.

True. 苏北苏中苏南,huge difference。泰州,扬州 are typical 江淮地区。徐州 is 苏北。I have a friend from 徐州, we both talk our own dialect, amazingly to find out it's almost same.
 
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Why protest ? why this week ? why in HK ? why by student ?
They act as they want to get the proper response from govt, not cause violence to make a chaos.
It's the anti-protest and police who cause their blood and tear drop.
 
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True. 苏北苏中苏南,huge difference。泰州,扬州 are typical 江淮地区。徐州 is 苏北。I have a friend from 徐州, we both talk our own dialect, amazingly to find out it's almost same.

True, my grandmother is from 苏中, and 徐州 is truly 苏北, and they speak 中原/华北官话.
 
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Exactly right.

Those who control nature, have the physical power to control humanity - after all, if you can tame the forces of weather, the atom, and outer space, controlling a mere person is nothing, right? But that's wrong - taming a human is different, because the human is the one who carries out such acts of controlling nature.

Controlling people's brains - controlling how they think, what their values are, how they interface with society - that is the crucial key to a stable society. For the ruling class, this is even better than having everyone be robots - you need to program robots. Media, if successful, is like robots programming themselves exactly the way you want.

Several years back, Bill Gates made a public speech complaining about the excessive fields in the soft science (arts and humanities) and that the hard sciences like maths and engineering is all that's needed in the university. Steve Jobs fired back later at another public speech saying that the soft sciences in the university is needed and that tech companies will bound to fail if they only focus on the hard sciences. Years later we now know who's right. I've never heard of anyone who's camped overnight just to be the first to get a new Windows phone. Apples on the other hand...

Rumours has it that the CIA/Pentagon even once experimented with supposed psychics, hypnotists, etc. Probably didn't achieve much from it but it says that the US/West takes the study of human behaviour and the humanities much more seriously, and is a lot more advanced in this field than any other country.
 
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Cirr is from Jiangxi. Where would you think I'm from? I'm the most fair and unbiased - the only time I've ever insulted anyone was when I told an Indian bigot to check himself before he wrecks himself.

just give me some time, i will post a list based on my assumption. the northern chinese posts reflect witty pragmatic uncompromising and straightforward replies but their numbers are smaller than those of the southern chinese. for example, jlaw or someone i can't remember this time, is a northern chinese for sure. i think beidou, sino soldier are northern chinese too. and please don't mix me with any particular nationality while in an objective discussion
 
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i can even distinguish chinese members here and say who is from north and who is from south by reading their posts because bravery is reflected in their respective posts

LMAO..... can you guess who I am? chinese? non-chinese? black, white, yellow, brown, North, South, East, West, North West, South East, North south Central, slightly to the east? lol.
 
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just give me some time, i will post a list based on my assumption. the northern chinese posts reflect witty pragmatic uncompromising and straightforward replies but their numbers are smaller than those of the southern chinese. for example, jlaw or someone i can't remember this time, is a northern chinese for sure. i think beidou, sino soldier are northern chinese too. and please don't mix me with any particular nationality while in an objective discussion

My friend, Beidou is not even Chinese. No offence, but I think just observation from PDF posts is not persuasive.

LMAO..... can you guess who I am? chinese? non-chinese? black, white, yellow, brown, North, South, East, West, North West, South East, North south Central, slightly to the east? lol.

I am curious. Which part of the world do you come from? :angel: You don't have flags.
 
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You almost got it. But not just political philosophy and theory, they must try to understand humans and the human condition as well, I. e. the humanities and arts.

This is why I think the Soviet didn't last like the west did. The soviets put too much effort on politics, economics and technology while neglecting the study of humans. The West was way superior in this respect.

I agree. China as a nation of 1.4 billion, does have the manpower to produce superior scientists in every field, including anthropology, sociology and psychology. Just as an indigenous jet fighter is essential for national security and defence, an indigenous political theory or comprehensive study on social engineering and human behavior is essential to deliver the message through soft channels where hard power is not required.

It is all about creating a national discourse and marketing it overseas.

Several years back, Bill Gates made a public speech complaining about the excessive fields in the soft science (arts and humanities) and that the hard sciences like maths and engineering is all that's needed in the university. Steve Jobs fired back later at another public speech saying that the soft sciences in the university is needed and that tech companies will bound to fail if they only focus on the hard sciences. Years later we now know who's right. I've never heard of anyone who's camped overnight just to be the first to get a new Windows phone. Apples on the other hand...

A balanced approach to both hard and soft sciences is the right attitude. But, if/when a nation has to give priority to one of them to start with national development, I would say, hard sciences should come first. Soft power is simply an extension of hard power. Complex interdependence and all those constructivist learning/mimicking works to the favor of the one that is stronger in hard power aspects.

China has done right by prioritizing natural sciences; an army of lawyers and historians will do no good in terms of productivity and power projection. China needs good/top quality political philosophers, historians and creative writers, for sure, but, not an army of them, which is in fact detrimental to overall quality.
 
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Why protest ? why this week ? why in HK ? why by student ?
They act as they want to get the proper response from govt, not cause violence to make a chaos.
It's the anti-protest and police who cause their blood and tear drop.

Ah, brother, you missed the party -- we have chewed the issue to the bone during your absence. And how exciting was that!

This ain't of no interest to most any more. The excitement is gone. Indians and Vietnamese jumped up and down fast and long enough. They are all spent.

Let's move on and find something else to bash China.
 
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