CHINA HELPED PAKISTAN BLOCK INDIA's nsg membership bid: Aziz

[banvanaxl]

Now, that's going interesting.
UNSC countries don't want us because of risk their own neutralization and our dear neighbors are blocking us for their small interests.
And if we let it go on, India won't face much problems as compared to UNSC or NSG themselves.

Remember, when India wasn't a significant power, India disobeyed UNSC and they could not stop us.
NSG was also created to prevent the rise of other Indias who can challenge these coward P5 nations.
Let's imagine in next 20-25 years. And India still hasn't got the membership of UNSC and NSG etc..
Being a major force and global economic engine, India gonna be doing anything and could UNSC stop us? No.
Many countries will defy sanctions. India will itself be neutralizing them.
UNSC nations themselves will be much dependent on India.
So, let's see if they are enough intellegent to keep the value of their organizations alive or make them defunct and useless.
If not including a major force like India, then, what sort of sanity they have?
Believe me, India goes or not in UNSC and NSG, it won't harm our interests much.
@Ankit Kumar @Tyagibay @IndoCarib

Exactly.. Hit the nail on the damn bloody head.. This is a new world order, yesterdays big boys are going to sit this one out.

 

[kempe]

end of the day your both the same to me. [both got nukes via external help]
i have read up on both countries. you were just better in hiding it.

He is a pakistani suffering from identity crises

These children have no idea about nuclear history , and I bet he doesn't have idea about his own country's nuclear history.

But they still conclude things like hell.


Lol that what I want to hear.

There has been an interesting study carried out to study "Does the U.S. Science-Based Stockpile Stewardship Program Pose a Proliferation Threat?".
(I am unable to post the link to the website can someone please do it for me)
It was carried out by Natural Resources Defense Council.

In their research paper, they published an interesting venn diagram.

This diagram captures what we can call proliferation extent. Nuclear countries are represented by circles. The number in parenthesis is the number of nuclear tests it conducted and an intersection in the circle implies documented transfer/proliferation of nuclear technology.

The diagram is subtexted with these texts,
Area of overlap is not strictly proportional to the degree of knowledge sharing, as this is difficult to quantify. The Russia-U.S. overlap reflects the recent purchase by the U.S. Defense Special Weapons Agency (via a detailed negotiated contract) of a large amount of data concerning the former Soviet test program. The number of tests indicated for India includes one on 18 May 1974 and three it claimed in May of 1998 and Pakistan claimed to have conducted two tests in May 1998.Transfer of information from nuclear weapon states to non-nuclear weapon states that would assist the latter "in any way" to acquire nuclear explosive devices is prohibited under Articles I and II of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

Clearly, there are no documented evidence of India gaining any nuclear tech either from Russia or US . Now, that being said, Indian scientists jumped on the nuclear bandwagon quite early in our independent history. Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, then called Atomic Energy Establishment, Trombay was established on 1954 (just 7 years post independence) and attaining nuclear weapon was a major ambition of Dr. Bhabha. We tested our firstnuclear device in 1974. That is it took us 30 years to develop the technology, which for all measures is a too large (compared to the United States; There are rumors that India developed nuclear device much before but didn't made it public).

So, , it's very unlikely that any prior nuclear power helped India in her nuclearambition because evidences and documents doesn't prove anything contrary.

Note : NK wasn't nuclear when this study was carried out. Nonetheless, A.Q. Khan (Pakistan) along with China's involvement is clearly documented in helping NK with their nuclear devices

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Now, that's going interesting.
UNSC countries don't want us because of risk their own neutralization and our dear neighbors are blocking us for their small interests.
And if we let it go on, India won't face much problems as compared to UNSC or capshemselves.

Remember, when India wasn't a significant power, India disobeyed UNSC and they could not stop us.
NSG was also created to prevent the rise of other Indias who can challenge these coward P5 nations.
Let's imagine in next 20-25 years. And India still hasn't got the membership of UNSC and NSG etc..
Being a major force and global economic engine, India gonna be doing anything and could UNSC stop us? No.
Many countries will defy sanctions. India will itself be neutralizing them.
UNSC nations themselves will be much dependent on India.
So, let's see if they are enough intellegent to keep the value of their organizations alive or make them defunct and useless.
If not including a major force like India, then, what sort of sanity they have?
Believe me, India goes or not in UNSC and NSG, it won't harm our interests much.
@Ankit Kumar @Tyagibay @IndoCarib

UNSC is a no benefit for us other than getting us more bad reviews . Yes the west will blame us for not using our powers effectively and Russia will say that we are too west leaning.

I will say that leave the UNSC issue for some 5 more years.And start putting more restrictions in number of UNSC white caps.

On NSG, if we are able to procure Reactors from France and Russia , and uranium from Canada, Australia , African and central Asian nations..... its again no benefit for us to run behind it.
And at present it seems pretty useless for us to me.

What I think matters is MTCR. But again not that much. Even without it we are making it do, and will continue to.

 

[kadamba-warrior]

so in the 70's the usa was buddies with india?
hint: who gave you cryogenic tech and more.....

Nobody gave India cryogenic technology! One of the reasons why India doesn't have a functioning cryogenic technology even today and still relies on the French for all their heavy lifting needs!

Russia was supposed to give the technology to India, but backed out at the last minute owing to US pressure! In the end, India settled with Russia to acquire 7 ready-made cryogenic engines instead!

 

[Endeavour]

With south china sea becoming the playground for next battle with china on one side and all other powerhouses on other side, china will eventually need to get out of their obsession of india and prevent india from falling into other group. That will make a life for china a lot easier.

Thank you China. .. btw its in China's interest too.. India have disputes with China as well.
India should come on table to resolve dispute with neighbors if she want NSG or UNSC membership

Eventually india and china will sit on the table and resolve their disputes, that is inevitable and in interest of both nations.
As far as pakistan is concerned, india is not so keen to resolve any dispute unless you let go off kashmir issue. We are fine with status quo.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Nobody gave India cryogenic technology! One of the reasons why India doesn't have a functioning cryogenic technology even today and still relies on the French for all their heavy lifting needs!

Russia was supposed to give the technology to India, but backed out at the last minute owing to US pressure! In the end, India settled with Russia to acquire 7 ready-made cryogenic engines instead!

thats whats was said in the history book and it true. but near after, corrupt soviets sold the tech in quietly as apart of a larger deal. i cant believe you think you think you did it all on your own.

 

[Dash]

thats whats was said in the history book and it true. but near after, corrupt soviets sold the tech in quietly as apart of a larger deal. i cant believe you think you think you did it all on your own.

No one does everything on their own, its always a collective effort. I have already told you before, but you keep coming back with same load of misinformation.

 

[KN-1]

As far as pakistan is concerned, india is not so keen to resolve any dispute unless you let go off kashmir issue. We are fine with status quo.

Good luck..

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

There has been an interesting study carried out to study "Does the U.S. Science-Based Stockpile Stewardship Program Pose a Proliferation Threat?".
(I am unable to post the link to the website can someone please do it for me)
It was carried out by Natural Resources Defense Council.

In their research paper, they published an interesting venn diagram.

This diagram captures what we can call proliferation extent. Nuclear countries are represented by circles. The number in parenthesis is the number of nuclear tests it conducted and an intersection in the circle implies documented transfer/proliferation of nuclear technology.

The diagram is subtexted with these texts,
Area of overlap is not strictly proportional to the degree of knowledge sharing, as this is difficult to quantify. The Russia-U.S. overlap reflects the recent purchase by the U.S. Defense Special Weapons Agency (via a detailed negotiated contract) of a large amount of data concerning the former Soviet test program. The number of tests indicated for India includes one on 18 May 1974 and three it claimed in May of 1998 and Pakistan claimed to have conducted two tests in May 1998.Transfer of information from nuclear weapon states to non-nuclear weapon states that would assist the latter "in any way" to acquire nuclear explosive devices is prohibited under Articles I and II of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

Clearly, there are no documented evidence of India gaining any nuclear tech either from Russia or US . Now, that being said, Indian scientists jumped on the nuclear bandwagon quite early in our independent history. Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, then called Atomic Energy Establishment, Trombay was established on 1954 (just 7 years post independence) and attaining nuclear weapon was a major ambition of Dr. Bhabha. We tested our firstnuclear device in 1974. That is it took us 30 years to develop the technology, which for all measures is a too large (compared to the United States; There are rumors that India developed nuclear device much before but didn't made it public).

So, , it's very unlikely that any prior nuclear power helped India in her nuclearambition because evidences and documents doesn't prove anything contrary.

Note : NK wasn't nuclear when this study was carried out. Nonetheless, A.Q. Khan (Pakistan) along with China's involvement is clearly documented in helping NK with their nuclear devices

Here is the source link

NRDC: Does the U.S. Science-Based Stockpile Stewardship Program Pose a Proliferation Threat?

 

[IndoCarib]

China today said it will not back India's bid alone to join the Nuclear Suppliers Group as "other states" are also aspiring to join the elite 48-member club and asserted that any decision on the inclusion of new members will be based on "consensus".

"Besides India, there are other non-NPT states who have expressed similar aspirations," Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei told PTI, clubbing India alongwith Pakistan and other states who have not signed the Nuclear ..

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/51345076.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

 

[cloud_digger]

thats whats was said in the history book and it true. but near after, corrupt soviets sold the tech in quietly as apart of a larger deal. i cant believe you think you think you did it all on your own.

I will ask you this again, how do you know we did not build it on our own? Do you have any proof what so ever of some country helping us?

Your sweeping statements are getting repetitive and boring. If you dont have proof kindly dont make such statements.

 

[Blue Marlin]

I will ask you this again, how do you know we did not build it on our own? Do you have any proof what so ever of some country helping us?

Your sweeping statements are getting repetitive and boring. If you dont have proof kindly dont make such statements.

well how do you get from a country thats poor and rag tag to having nukes? i bet india did not know what a nuclear reactor looked like back then. heck from scratch even the soviets stole american tech. and back then they were smart. you back then... not so smart.also if you want proof then your not gonna get it. its like asking your next door neighbor for proof that 26/11 was an inside job... your not gonna get it. or is the tejas completely designed by india.
or just go to your local raw office and ask if indian nukes were based of rough soviets nuke design.(thats why one of the fusion nuke did not go off properly) but in the light of every thing if you think that you did it on your own then think that, then good for you. i dont care. why should i? after all how can i convince an indian that his country cheated to get nukes? not worth my breath.

 

[Bad Guy]

well how do you get from a country thats poor and rag tag to having nukes? i bet india did not know what a nuclear reactor looked like back then. heck from scratch even the soviets stole american tech. and back then they were smart. you back then... not so smart.also if you want proof then your not gonna get it. its like asking your next door neighbor for proof that 26/11 was an inside job... your not gonna get it. or is the tejas completely designed by india.
or just go to your local raw office and ask if indian nukes were based of rough soviets nuke design.(thats why one of the fusion nuke did not go off properly) but in the light of every thing if you think that you did it on your own then think that, then good for you. i dont care. why should i? after all how can i convince an indian that his country cheated to get nukes? not worth my breath.

Nice analysis but our nuclear tech isn't from Soviet.
We bought Canadian equipment and later developed and integrated it to make weapons.

Entire NSG (Nuclear Supplier Group) was created just became of us.

 

[cloud_digger]

well how do you get from a country thats poor and rag tag to having nukes? i bet india did not know what a nuclear reactor looked like back then. heck from scratch even the soviets stole american tech. and back then they were smart. you back then... not so smart.also if you want proof then your not gonna get it. its like asking your next door neighbor for proof that 26/11 was an inside job... your not gonna get it. or is the tejas completely designed by india.
or just go to your local raw office and ask if indian nukes were based of rough soviets nuke design.(thats why one of the fusion nuke did not go off properly) but in the light of every thing if you think that you did it on your own then think that, then good for you. i dont care. why should i? after all how can i convince an indian that his country cheated to get nukes? not worth my breath.

So your whole assertion lies on the theory that indians are not/were not capable enough to match the west. A rather sh$&#y argument and quite racist in every sense. You have never been able to proove any of your tall claims, like with the whole typhoons got "beat" and simply claim that indians are not smart or intelligent enough to match the west. That right there is racism in all its gory glory.
Now that i have confirmed my suspicions i will leave you and your posts alone. I have no more intentions of continuing any conversation of any sort with you. And you dont have to waste your breath on me.

Good day.

 

[Bad Guy]

@valkire777 According to pakistani government, India has enough material to make 2000 nuclear warheads.
Moreover, we have mastered most of critical technologies in nuclear field. Let's see it we could integrate them into our H- bombs.