China has its own horrors to atone for

[ChineseTiger1986]

CPC, KMT, neither one is or was good. They ruled for their own benefit.

KMT is a shitty ruler who caused China to get looted by the foreign powers and losing more land.

The Chinese people won't tolerate any shitty ruler like KMT.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

No, I don't support either of them and as far as I see, CPC and VCP are 2 shades of the same color but one has been far more barbaric than the other.

dunno about that. CPC didn't match KMT brutality and incompetence, which even Harry Truman was critical of.

I'm not surprised that you are not willing to engage in critical debate about a topic that should be free of personal bias on your side. instead you resort to cheap one liners. that is no surprise as Spanish were traditionally conservative and did not view Enlightenment values such as rational debate as important, preferring the Inquisition instead.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

So far, history says otherwise.

Look at Vietcong, so weak not even 1/100 of CPC's power, yet they dare to dream about their sub-Mekong empire.

When the PRC was formed, they didn't think to encroach any neighbor's land so far.

to defend the territorial sovereignty ≠ territorial encroachment

 

[Carlosa]

dunno about that. CPC didn't match KMT brutality and incompetence, which even Harry Truman was critical of.

I'm not surprised that you are not willing to engage in critical debate about a topic that should be free of personal bias on your side. instead you resort to cheap one liners. that is no surprise as Spanish were traditionally conservative and did not view Enlightenment values such as rational debate as important, preferring the Inquisition instead.

Really? I'm still waiting for chinese members to start debating the actual events mentioned in the article, but maybe you can start now.

If I recalled, the Inquisition happened quite a few centuries ago right? Should we look at all the negative events in chinese history and portrait them as if they are defining characteristics of the chinese people and nation of today?

Funny that you talk about the state of national debate in the free and democratic Spain of today where everybody is free to say and debate whatever they want while in China........... well, we all know how that is right?

Look at Vietcong, so weak not even 1/100 of CPC's power, yet they dare to dream about their sub-Mekong empire.

When the PRC was formed, they didn't think to encroach any neighbor's land so far.

to defend the territorial sovereignty ≠ territorial encroachment

Sorry but when I look at the military record of the Vietcong against the French and American forces and then look at the CPC record against the Japanese..................... the difference is striking man.

You are an smart guy, but your vision is clouded by your ultra nationalistic views, too bad.

 

[PLANZubr]

Let's all agree:

China is a glorious empire and vanguard of humanity

Whatever is done to advance Chinese empire is justified and peaceful

Other countries like Japan and the West are evil because they seek to undermine China

Evil countries' violence cannot be justified

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Sorry but when I look at the military record of the Vietcong against the French and American forces and then look at the CPC record against the Japanese..................... the difference is striking man.

You are an smart guy, but your vision is clouded by your ultra nationalistic views, too bad.

CPC did its best against the Imperial Japan, they had launched a counter attack since 1933.

Northeast Anti-Japanese United Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But they got nobody's support, even USSR didn't trust them and never truly supported them. So they had to fight both Japanese and KMT alone.

Vietcong fought the French and American with the support from both USSR and PRC, and no way that they could do this alone.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Really? I'm still waiting for chinese members to start debating the actual events mentioned in the article, but maybe you can start now.

If I recalled, the Inquisition happened quite a few centuries ago right? Should we look at all the negative events in chinese history and portrait them as if they are defining characteristics of the chinese people and nation of today?

Funny that you talk about the state of national debate in the free and democratic Spain of today where everybody is free to say and debate whatever they want while in China........... well, we all know how that is right?



Sorry but when I look at the military record of the Vietcong against the French and American forces and then look at the CPC record against the Japanese..................... the difference is striking man.

You are an smart guy, but your vision is clouded by your ultra nationalistic views, too bad.

I have been debating them lol. maybe you confuse "not agreeing" with "not debating".

you are slipping lol. according to you CPC didn't even fight, so what record against Japan is there to talk of going by your logic, CPC directly engaged US army in foreign territory, won, and permanently held land from them, something that no country in the world has ever done before.

 

[55100864]

LooooL...............i can't believe you guys are actually debating about meaningless human right issues which means nothing in geo-politics???lol, quit the trolling, all of you, dose a Spanish actually care about how people are treated in china??? dose the countless bashing from some Spanish guy changes anything geo-politically? dose china care about what foreigner thinks? dose little span's action make any difference in this world? dose western propaganda stops china's rise?? who cares?? i myself certainly don't give a shit if a western country committing genocide and rapping two years old girl in other country，or there is a nuclear war going on Europe as long as its dose not affect china's interest, cut the bullshit of human right and political correctness, no country on this planet actually care, we all know that. I'm so sick of some members here do nothing but bullshitting some political correctness nonsense and being hypocritical and dishonest and like a diplomat, relax dude, you are nobody, your country is nothing, if span disappears today, hardly anyone in china would even aware until next century！

 

[Carlosa]

I have been debating them lol. maybe you confuse "not agreeing" with "not debating".

you are slipping lol. according to you CPC didn't even fight, so what record against Japan is there to talk of going by your logic, CPC directly engaged US army in foreign territory, won, and permanently held land from them, something that no country in the world has ever done before.

I was talking about debating the actual ISSUES MENTIONED IN THE ARTICLE, no going around the bushes with unrelated topics.

When did I say that the CPC didn't even fight?

10 am in China, time to get some work done, can continue tonight; in the meantime, I hope you guys debate the actual article, not the Spanish Inquisition of the 1500s. Cheers

LooooL...............i can't believe you guys are actually debating about meaningless human right issues which means nothing in geo-politics???lol, quit the trolling, all of you, dose a Spanish actually care about how people are treated in china??? dose the countless bashing from some Spanish guy changes anything geo-politically? dose china care about what foreigner thinks? dose little span's action make any difference in this world? dose western propaganda stops china's rise?? who cares?? i myself certainly don't give a shit if a western country committing genocide and rapping two years old girl in other country，or there is a nuclear war going on Europe as long as its dose not affect china's interest, cut the bullshit of human right and political correctness, no country on this planet actually care, we all know that. I'm so sick of some members here do nothing but bullshitting some political correctness nonsense and being hypocritical and dishonest and like a diplomat, relax dude, you are nobody, your country is nothing, if span disappears in this world today, hardly anyone in china would even aware until next century！

Tens of millions of people killed = meaningless human right issues

Got it!

CPC did its best against the Imperial Japan, they had launched a counter attack since 1933.

Northeast Anti-Japanese United Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But they got nobody's support, even USSR didn't trust them and never truly supported them. So they had to fight both Japanese and KMT alone.

Vietcong fought the French and American with the support from both USSR and PRC, and no way that they could do this alone.

That's a good point.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

I was talking about debating the actual ISSUES MENTIONED IN THE ARTICLE, no going around the bushes with unrelated topics.

When did I say that the CPC didn't even fight?

10 am in China, time to get some work done, can continue tonight; in the meantime, I hope you guys debate the actual article, not the Spanish Inquisition of the 1500s. Cheers



Tens of millions of people killed = meaningless human right issues

Got it!



That's a good point.

I made the very valid point that legally there is a difference between deliberate killing and neglect or incompetence leading to death. also made the point that the only way to consider events is to compare total impact. if you include ppl starving to death in 50s,60s then you also have to include the same statistic from KMT and Japan. no double standards.

also saying that the CPC didn't fight or held back is falling for another logical fallacy of holding two unequal parties as equal. the KMT was the sole ruling party of all China, legally. it was thus their legal duty to fight Japan, and they faltered in this duty until the Xi'an incident. CPC was a regional party back then, had no power of military command and thus was under absolutely no moral or legal responsibility to do anything whatsoever. the fact that the CPC resisted Japan since the start shows their heroism and willingness to go above and beyond minimal legal requirements.

 

[55100864]

I was talking about debating the actual ISSUES MENTIONED IN THE ARTICLE, no going around the bushes with unrelated topics.

When did I say that the CPC didn't even fight?

10 am in China, time to get some work done, can continue tonight; in the meantime, I hope you guys debate the actual article, not the Spanish Inquisition of the 1500s. Cheers



Tens of millions of people killed = meaningless human right issues

Got it!

did you saw it? forget about the number, why should we even believe a foreigner who never speak about what's happening in his own country but instead, extremely concerned whether chinese have basic human right or not? that's the fundamental question, i won't debate with u about whether human right is respected in china or not, or how many died during culture revolution, because it's meaningless! I'm being honest with you, yes, maybe many individuals in the west care about how chinese are treated in china, and they wish china all the best, but as an nation, all your western countries were probably having an orgasm while watching some CIA backed Chinese students been roll over by tank in 1989. I'm not demonizing the west, or saying china is angel， similarly，many chinese people were heart breaking watching the World Trade Centre collapse which took thousands of lives in US, But China, as an nation, i'm sure she was so excited that the window of strategic opportunities is about to come.
You my son, have no clue what's been going on in this world for thousands years. Or you are just being hypocritical and dishonest like a spokesman.

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

Here is a cut from a wikipedia article on the invasion of Tibet.

Invasion of Tibet
After months of failed negotiations,[11] attempts by Tibet to secure foreign support and assistance,[20] and PRC[21] and Tibetan[citation needed] troop buildups, the People's Liberation Army (PLA) crossed the Jinsha River on 6 or 7 October.[22] Two PLA units quickly surrounded the outnumbered Tibetan forces and captured the border town of Qamdo by 19 October, by which time 114 PLA[6] soldiers and 180 Tibetan[6][7][8] soldiers had been killed or wounded. Writing in 1962, Zhang Guohua claimed "over 5,700 enemy men were destroyed" and "more than 3,000" peacefully surrendered,[23] though that appears to be hyperbole. Active hostilities were limited to a border area controlled by the Government of Tibet northeast of the Gyamo Ngul Chu River and east of the 96th meridian.[24] After capturing Qamdo, the PLA ceased hostilities[7][25] and sent a captured commander, Ngabo, to Lhasa to reiterate terms of negotiation, and waited for Tibetan representatives to respond through delegates to Beijing.[26]

Tibetan prisoners of war were generally well treated. After confiscating their weapons, the PLA soldiers gave the prisoners lectures on socialism and a small amount of money, before allowing them to return to their homes. According to Tenzin Gyatso, the current as well as the Dalai Lama of the time, the PLA did not attack civilians.[27]


Make of it what you will.

Where is the deliberate massacre of Tibetans claimed by the OP?

 

[opruh]

What the Hell man?

How can anyone compare deaths from a FAMINE like the Great Leap Forward, to deliberate mass genocide and human experimentation committed by the Imperial Japanese Army during WW2?

@Nihonjin1051 senpai this deserves a positive rating!

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

@Nihonjin1051 senpai this deserves a positive rating!

Nah man, positive ratings are reserved for very insightful and analytical posts (or posts that have clearly taken a lot of work), my post above is just a one-paragraph comment.

 

[opruh]

Truly the horrors of war and the horrors of revolution lead to the wanton destruction and suffering of innocents.

The Japanese atrocities during the world war is definitely out of this world. No one in their right mind would do such things so I think those Japanese soldiers that time have mental problems, that's why they are able to commit such unforgivable crimes.