Featured China firm, Kashmir-like festering zone looms

[peagle]

Let's see, IAF intruded into Pakistan remember not any disputed territory but Pakistan (KPK), bombed and returned to its base. Pakistan next day intruded into J&K, got chased by some MiGs, the plane was shot down Wg Cmdr level officer was returned in a day. Let's say the reverse happened, PAF intruded into Indian territory (without getting shot down lol), reached Himachal, bombs a field, returns (if lucky). India would light up the entire border the next day. That's might, which you didn't show. Simple logic.

You people live in a fantasy world, you are describing a hypothetical situation, and comparing it to a real one.

You went begging to America when Pakistan went into Kargil, if China and America had not pressured Pakistan, so we couldn't fight back effectively, there was no chance in hell you could have done anything. give real life examples, not your fantasies.

You have over half a million soldiers in Kashmir, when you have a land link with Kashmir, you still are only holding on by your teeth. Your pride regarding Bangladesh is misplaced my son, place any part of India on the other side of Pakistan and then see how long you stay together. bunch of jokers.

You should be licking our feet with gratitude for not attacking you in 1962, when China was whooping your backside. Then also you went begging to America and UK who saved you from China and Pakistan. Your misplaced arrogance astounds me. I hope you lot stay in your fantasies.

 

[hamilcar of carthage]

A

Let's see, IAF intruded into Pakistan remember not any disputed territory but Pakistan (KPK), bombed and returned to its base. Pakistan next day intruded into J&K, got chased by some MiGs, the plane was shot down Wg Cmdr level officer was returned in a day. Let's say the reverse happened, PAF intruded into Indian territory (without getting shot down lol), reached Himachal, bombs a field, returns (if lucky). India would light up the entire border the next day. That's might, which you didn't show. Simple logic.

Agreed, Pakistan cannot fight India, as the economy cannot sustain the Pak army. That is why china comes in, Pakistan lost the initiative, when 2008 crash started, now alone Pakistan will lose a prolonged war. I believe Pakistan has given up on kashmir, as jammu is still amassing hindus like rats. Kashmir side is giving resistance, if Pakistan makes peace, they can forget about kashmir. However, that is a different thing. The problem with Pakistan is that they cannot contend with India at the moment, one on one.

 

[Mugen]

Let's see, IAF intruded into Pakistan remember not any disputed territory but Pakistan (KPK), bombed and returned to its base. Pakistan next day intruded into J&K, got chased by some MiGs, the plane was shot down Wg Cmdr level officer was returned in a day. Let's say the reverse happened, PAF intruded into Indian territory (without getting shot down lol), reached Himachal, bombs a field, returns (if lucky). India would light up the entire border the next day. That's might, which you didn't show. Simple logic.

Does India consider J&K as its territory? Yes or no? If yes, then why does it matter? Pakistan went in when you were expecting (not a sneak/surprise attack like you did the night before), in broad day light and dropped bombs in an area you claim as your own. We downed your jet, captured your pilot and returned him because we are not a rabid nation like you. If we were afraid of you, we would have returned that rat of a spy that is still in Pakistani custody. So where is the might in that?

 

[Chhatrapati]

Does India consider J&K as its territory? Yes or no? If yes, then why does it matter? Pakistan went in when you were expecting (not a sneak/surprise attack like you did the night before), in broad day light and dropped bombs in an area you claim as your own. We downed your jet, captured your pilot and returned him because we are not a rabid nation like you. If we were afraid of you, we would have returned that rat of a spy that is still in Pakistani custody. So where is the might in that?

Firing shells, guns etc... into J&K happens year-round. Do you see any such issues anywhere across Indo-Pak border? Whatever India thinks the status of J&K be, there are redlines both India and Pakistan do not cross, India crossed it by striking Pakistan proper. Your only advantage in this whole affairs is you got a Wg cmdr level officer in Pakistan territory. You returned the pilot because India was ready to escalate the conflict. Might...

There was no obligation for Pakistan to return the pilot who is a gold mine of tactical information. As for KJ, do you have any idea how many Pakistanis are in India prisons, how many are killed in the J&K? You had a KJ, who is a failed info warfare that fell flat when the ICJ superseded your court decision. The RAAA dossier didn't work well. Now, why go on a comparison, your own people have from time to time explained the status of India vis Pakistan. I don't think we need to explore much of that. Again, the point being might is right, means countries who have better status and power is right, not my words. And I don't believe in it.

 

[Chhatrapati]

You people live in a fantasy world, you are describing a hypothetical situation, and comparing it to a real one.

I gave the real scenario, where India bombed undisputed Pakistani territory.

You went begging to America when Pakistan went into Kargil

Location of Indian PM during Kargil conflict: India

Location of Pakistan PM during Kargil Conflict: United States of America.

Who went begging to America again? Besides, Pakistani General Abdul Majeed Malik wrote, "the whole fiasco was a total disaster and Nawaz Sharif contacted the US president to initiate a diplomatic process to get out of this difficult situation." Now obviously all these have been discussed to death in PDF.

You should be licking our feet with gratitude for not attacking you in 1962, when China was whooping your backside. Then also you went begging to America and UK who saved you from China and Pakistan. Your misplaced arrogance astounds me. I hope you lot stay in your fantasies.

One of the main reasons for Indian defeat was our forces were concentrated on the Pakistan side when Nehru only thought of Pakistan as the threat. When India moved its troops away from Kashmir for redeployment along the Chinese side, you attacked, just 3 years after in 1965, and got your backside handed over when the Indian army hit your army in their house, Punjab.

Now if Pakistan attacked in 1962, you wouldn't even reach anywhere close to what you have reached in 1965 add to the humiliation of an escalation along the IB, losing more territories. So, no you Pakistanis didn't do us any favor by not attacking in 1962, because, as Bhutto said "Mighty India", would've ended a generation.

 

[peagle]

God its worst then I thought, perpetual fantasies, nothing else. What colour is the sky in your world? Pink?

I gave the real scenario, where India bombed undisputed Pakistani territory.

No, you gave an example of an attack on Indian territory and an imagined response by India, at least pay attention to your own words, come on wake up.
Actually there is a real example, you blamed Pakistan for the attack on your parliament, massed most of your armed forces around 700,000+ soldiers on the border for nearly a year, threatening to attack, didn't have the guts to attack and pulled back. In the process got 2000 of your soldiers killed, Pakistan lost non. What a pathetic lot.

Location of Indian PM during Kargil conflict: India
Location of Pakistan PM during Kargil Conflict: United States of America.

Yes because America was telling Pakistan to pull back, when America demands something, BACK THEN, no country in the world could say no, plus China was also asking us to pull back, at least we recognise the reality, its called being truthful, you need to learn and get out of your fantasies.

it wasn't anything to do with you, you just starting firing when you saw we couldn't hit back because of external pressure. Talk about arrogance.

One of the main reasons for Indian defeat was our forces were concentrated on the Pakistan side when Nehru only thought of Pakistan as the threat. When India moved its troops away from Kashmir for redeployment along the Chinese side,

Man please wake up, your Nehru was pushing china with his forward policy, and you were very prepared, arrogantly thinking you could beat China, but when China had enough, you got a whooping of your life, do some reading, lot of things have come out. no more Indian fantasies.
You went begging to America and UK, got nearly 1 billion dollars worth of free weapons and so much other help.

you attacked, just 3 years after in 1965, and got your backside handed over when the Indian army hit your army in their house, Punjab

That attack happened because the promised resolution of Kashmir was not delivered by USA and UK, because like always you lied and backstab on your promises.
You still had the new free weapons given by America and UK, and the world put sanctions on Pakistan so we fought with our hands tied behind our backs.
And, still you couldn't win because you had to beg for a ceasefire, there is no ceasefire negotiations in a victory, have your forgotten, your lord and masters the Soviet Union had to lead the negotiations.

Please leave your fantasies, it would be so much better.

 

[Chhatrapati]

No, you gave an example of an attack on Indian territory and an imagined response by India, at least pay attention to your own words, come on wake up.
Actually there is a real example, you blamed Pakistan for the attack on your parliament, massed most of your armed forces around 700,000+ soldiers on the border for nearly a year, threatening to attack, didn't have the guts to attack and pulled back. In the process got 2000 of your soldiers killed, Pakistan lost non. What a pathetic lot.

haha do you have a comprehension issue?

Yes because America was telling Pakistan to pull back, when America demands something, BACK THEN, no country in the world could say no, plus China was also asking us to pull back, at least we recognise the reality, its called being truthful, you need to learn and get out of your fantasies.

it wasn't anything to do with you, you just starting firing when you saw we couldn't hit back because of external pressure. Talk about arrogance.

Yeah, then you should've pulled back troops, lol why did your PM go running to US with tail between legs. The reality is what your General said, you put your head in the hole, you desperately wanted an escape. You shamelessly didn't even recognize soldiers who fought for your country, thanks to India they were recognized when we showed the evidence. Else, your soldiers will be in a hole dug by us, with no gravestone, nor honor. Time to be thankful and kiss our feet.

Man please wake up, your Nehru was pushing china with his forward policy, and you were very prepared, arrogantly thinking you could beat China, but when China had enough, you got a whooping of your life, do some reading, lot of things have come out. no more Indian fantasies.
You went begging to America and UK, got nearly 1 billion dollars worth of free weapons and so much other help.

My point still stands, whatever India policy towards China was, it wasn't hostility. India was simply claiming the McMohan line and we had minimal patrolling troops, where soldiers were engaged in a peaceful standoff. Chinese attack came as a surprise then. Read more before throwing random names.

That attack happened because the promised resolution of Kashmir was not delivered by USA and UK, because like always you lied and backstab on your promises.
You still had the new free weapons given by America and UK, and the world put sanctions on Pakistan so we fought with our hands tied behind our backs.
And, still you couldn't win because you had to beg for a ceasefire, there is no ceasefire negotiations in a victory, have your forgotten, your lord and masters the Soviet Union had to lead the negotiations.

Please leave your fantasies, it would be so much better.

Whatever be the reason, you attempted to take control over Kashmir. You failed, India never promised anything to Pakistan. India negotiated from a position of power, at the end of the war, you had deserts in Rajasthan and parts of Kashmir, India had parts of Punjab and Sindh. At the end of the war India had more of Pakistan lands. How exactly did we beg for a ceasefire lol. We simply agreed to a ceasefire because there wasn't anything worth taking. Unlike Kashmir, in the whole war of 1965 you won nothing.

 

[hamilcar of carthage]

haha do you have a comprehension issue?


Yeah, then you should've pulled back troops, lol why did your PM go running to US with tail between legs. The reality is what your General said, you put your head in the hole, you desperately wanted an escape. You shamelessly didn't even recognize soldiers who fought for your country, thanks to India they were recognized when we showed the evidence. Else, your soldiers will be in a hole dug by us, with no gravestone, nor honor. Time to be thankful and kiss our feet.


My point still stands, whatever India policy towards China was, it wasn't hostility. India was simply claiming the McMohan line and we had minimal patrolling troops, where soldiers were engaged in a peaceful standoff. Chinese attack came as a surprise then. Read more before throwing random names.


Whatever be the reason, you attempted to take control over Kashmir. You failed, India never promised anything to Pakistan. India negotiated from a position of power, at the end of the war, you had deserts in Rajasthan and parts of Kashmir, India had parts of Punjab and Sindh. At the end of the war India had more of Pakistan lands. How exactly did we beg for a ceasefire lol. We simply agreed to a ceasefire because there wasn't anything worth taking. Unlike Kashmir, in the whole war of 1965 you won nothing.

Even though, i am a staunch critic of Pakistan army, India could not take the remaining heights, which are still in Pakistan control. Tiger hill would be taken one way or the other by India because it was a crucial peak. Rest is hogwash, doesn't matter if nawaz was begging or not. End of the day, we still hold the peaks. The route to siachen is in blowing up range, that is why India is building the DBO road.

 

[Chhatrapati]

Even though, i am a staunch critic of Pakistan army, India could not take the remaining heights, which are still in Pakistan control. Tiger hill would be taken one way or the other by India because it was a crucial peak. Rest is hogwash, doesn't matter if nawaz was begging or not. End of the day, we still hold the peaks. The route to siachen is in blowing up range, that is why India is building the DBO road.

OH god. Someone needs a bit of Geography lesson, I don't have the time and patience for it. There are maps available on google, do check who holds the higher peaks in the region and why you had to go all the way to Kargil for an intrusion.

 

[hamilcar of carthage]

You people live in a fantasy world, you are describing a hypothetical situation, and comparing it to a real one.

You went begging to America when Pakistan went into Kargil, if China and America had not pressured Pakistan, so we couldn't fight back effectively, there was no chance in hell you could have done anything. give real life examples, not your fantasies.

You have over half a million soldiers in Kashmir, when you have a land link with Kashmir, you still are only holding on by your teeth. Your pride regarding Bangladesh is misplaced my son, place any part of India on the other side of Pakistan and then see how long you stay together. bunch of jokers.

You should be licking our feet with gratitude for not attacking you in 1962, when China was whooping your backside. Then also you went begging to America and UK who saved you from China and Pakistan. Your misplaced arrogance astounds me. I hope you lot stay in your fantasies.

HE is right, that India came inside an undisputed area, and we hit only kashmir. We could not fight, end of debate. There is no embarrassment in acknowledging the obvious. India was stronger and we did not want to rile up the stronger opponent.

OH god. Someone needs a bit of Geography lesson, I don't have the time and patience for it. There are maps available on google, do check who holds the higher peaks in the region and why you had to go all the way to Kargil for an intrusion.

The rarely told story of vital Point 5353 India failed to retake from Pakistan in Kargil

Some 19 yrs after the war, ThePrint pieces together events that prevented the Indian Army from capturing a vital height.

theprint.in

OH god. Someone needs a bit of Geography lesson, I don't have the time and patience for it. There are maps available on google, do check who holds the higher peaks in the region and why you had to go all the way to Kargil for an intrusion.

google is for losers, i take it from opposing side sources.

 

[peagle]

HE is right, that India came inside an undisputed area, and we hit only kashmir. We could not fight, end of debate. There is no embarrassment in acknowledging the obvious. India was stronger and we did not want to rile up the stronger opponent.

I think you are being over simplistic. As per their claims Kashmir is not disputed, it is theirs, according to their thinking, it is India.

The only reason we did not want a full war is because it would be crazy between two nuclear powers, you can take it higher and higher but once it starts fully, you cannot control the events. It has nothing to do with India's strength, if it was, Pakistan would not have attacked India in return. They didn't expect Pakistan to attack, no-one did.

And, when India had 700.000 soldier on the border in 2001 for nearly a year, Pakistan would have begged for mercy, we did nothing of the sort. We said ok, come, but like cowards, they did not attack, because they also know it is crazy, a war between two large nuclear powers.

Please don't misrepresent reality, look at things fully before drawing conclusions.

 

[peagle]

haha do you have a comprehension issue?

Go back and read your own statement, you surely cannot be that senile.

Yeah, then you should've pulled back troops, lol why did your PM go running to US with tail between legs. The reality is what your General said, you put your head in the hole, you desperately wanted an escape. You shamelessly didn't even recognize soldiers who fought for your country, thanks to India they were recognized when we showed the evidence. Else, your soldiers will be in a hole dug by us, with no gravestone, nor honor. Time to be thankful and kiss our feet.

Because, that was what was required, without China and USA, you would be crying like babies as always.

This is when Pakistan couldn't fight freely, imagine the result if we had, time to wake up. Talk facts, not your fantasies.

My point still stands, whatever India policy towards China was, it wasn't hostility. India was simply claiming the McMohan line and we had minimal patrolling troops, where soldiers were engaged in a peaceful standoff. Chinese attack came as a surprise then. Read more before throwing random names.

When you try to take disputed territory, it is hostility, please show some sense. You were arrogant and thought yourself as soupapower, a you still do, but you got your backside whooped, your army left whole of the North-east india to China, you are lucky the Chinese went back.

Whatever be the reason, you attempted to take control over Kashmir. You failed, India never promised anything to Pakistan. India negotiated from a position of power, at the end of the war, you had deserts in Rajasthan and parts of Kashmir, India had parts of Punjab and Sindh. At the end of the war India had more of Pakistan lands. How exactly did we beg for a ceasefire lol. We simply agreed to a ceasefire because there wasn't anything worth taking. Unlike Kashmir, in the whole war of 1965 you won nothing.

You can make your fantasy claims, but you begged for ceasefire, supported by your masters, the Soviets, they even helped negotiate a settlement.
I never claimed we won the 1965 war, see you cant even pay attention, at least learn to have a proper argument, so stuck in your fantasies. In my view it was a draw, neither party achieved their objective. That's a fact, because I don't live in my fantasies, unlike you lot. I assess issues objectively.

 

[hamilcar of carthage]

I think you are being over simplistic. As per their claims Kashmir is not disputed, it is theirs, according to their thinking, it is India.

The only reason we did not want a full war is because it would be crazy between two nuclear powers, you can take it higher and higher but once it starts fully, you cannot control the events. It has nothing to do with India's strength, if it was, Pakistan would not have attacked India in return. They didn't expect Pakistan to attack, no-one did.

And, when India had 700.000 soldier on the border in 2001 for nearly a year, Pakistan would have begged for mercy, we did nothing of the sort. We said ok, come, but like cowards, they did not attack, because they also know it is crazy, a war between two large nuclear powers.

Please don't misrepresent reality, look at things fully before drawing conclusions.

2001 was different Pakistan's economy was stronger than what it is now, and India was not that big of power compared to now. It is simple, Pakistan cannot win an offensive war against India, and a defensive one would be a pyrrhic victory. Nuclear was is not going to happen, unless Pakistan is in a losing position and is being overrun heavily.

 

[HttpError]

Yeah, I guess you can start applying that logic from the India-Pakistan perspective.

Nah, Uncle, we have Nuclear Parity with you. Despite being 7x smaller than you, we are still able to handle you with ease (Hint: 27th Feb).

 

[proudindian20]

I gave the real scenario, where India bombed undisputed Pakistani territory.


Location of Indian PM during Kargil conflict: India

Location of Pakistan PM during Kargil Conflict: United States of America.

Who went begging to America again? Besides, Pakistani General Abdul Majeed Malik wrote, "the whole fiasco was a total disaster and Nawaz Sharif contacted the US president to initiate a diplomatic process to get out of this difficult situation." Now obviously all these have been discussed to death in PDF.

One of the main reasons for Indian defeat was our forces were concentrated on the Pakistan side when Nehru only thought of Pakistan as the threat. When India moved its troops away from Kashmir for redeployment along the Chinese side, you attacked, just 3 years after in 1965, and got your backside handed over when the Indian army hit your army in their house, Punjab.

Now if Pakistan attacked in 1962, you wouldn't even reach anywhere close to what you have reached in 1965 add to the humiliation of an escalation along the IB, losing more territories. So, no you Pakistanis didn't do us any favor by not attacking in 1962, because, as Bhutto said "Mighty India", would've ended a generation.

To me it's so funny that after 20+ years they are still justifying that they were winning the Kargil War when our army pounded their positions and took back all the captured hills under such extreme situations.

Their own Generals admitted on TV that it was a foolish plan by Mushy but they still don't get it.